| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Matt, you can't go telling Rocket that Lorenzo and Rossi have identical bikes and that Lorenzo rides his better, and then turn around and say Spies won because he had a better bike than Sykes. Does not compute. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Ha ha Jamie. Like it. I know the Rossi / Lorenzo bikes are not different in the sense you think I mean, but I have been proven right all along. I alluded to this when referring to Rossi's fuel consumption aggainst that of Lorenzo's. I said Lorenzo's hand cannot be that smooth when Rossi is the man you want to prove such smoothness against. I'm not saying Rossi is equally as smooth. I wouldn't know. What I do know is Rossi is the GOAT and that smoothness of Lorenzo is not what in my opinion is beating the likes of Rossi. Rossi retiring Burgess in favour of an engineer he is hoping will find him a solution within the electronics tells me I was on the same wavelength all along. It's not so much the difference in the bike. More the difference in how the components are being administered. In this area I believe Lorenzo is getting the best of the best from Yamaha and from the team. One thing I've not believed all season is Rossi being slower by his own self. Whatever is keeping Rossi from mixing it for a win with the top three, it has not been him or his riding. And yes I did read what Schwantz said. And there is truth in that a 20 year old will have less of a boundary to fear, and maybe Marquez has been displaying this most of the season, but I'm a firm believer in experience over bravado. The difficulty here is combining either with ability and skill it's always going to be difficult to say which works best per se, as likely both work equally as well on different days. Rossi has shown me nothing to suggest his skill and ability combined with experience are not a match for Marquez's skill and ability combined with bravado. In fact the opposite is likely more true and Rossi has shown this season he has lost none of the old magic. Thus something within or upon the bike is where those missing two 10th's are hiding which Rossi is trying desperately to find. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, you can't go telling Rocket that Lorenzo and Rossi have identical bikes and that Lorenzo rides his better, and then turn around and say Spies won because he had a better bike than Sykes. Does not compute. Different teams, different bikes and different riders, so you cannot compare how one series/team is organised to another. MotoGP bikes are MUCH more constrained than WSB (and certainly so when Spies was in WSB when bikes were extremely trickand bore little relation to the road bikes they were 'based' on). It is also common knowledge so I am not suddenly coming up with any conspiracy theories here. Spies had 95% of the support and equipment in the Yamaha WSb camp, Sykes was there to make up the numbers and give Yamaha a two rider team. Yamaha put all their eggs into the SPies basket and if he hadn't won then they would have had them all over their faces, so Sykes was pretty much left to get on with it on his own with what he had available to him. In MotoGP the bikes that Rossi and Lorenzo have are absolutely identical in terms of hardware. The only differences are electronic stratgies to suit each rider and individual setups. Lorenzo beat Rossi this year becaue he rode better and finished higher up, simple. Spies was a better rider than Sykes at the time they were at Yamaha together undoubtedly, but he also enjoyed significant advantages in terms of equipment and manpower. Also simple  I have no axe to grind or favouratism here about any particular rider. That is just the plain facts. Rossi has shown me nothing to suggest his skill and ability combined with experience are not a match for Marquez's skill and ability combined with bravado. In fact the opposite is likely more true and Rossi has shown this season he has lost none of the old magic. Thus something within or upon the bike is where those missing two 10th's are hiding which Rossi is trying desperately to find. If Rossi was at the same level as Marquez this year then he would have beaten him more regularly or at least been closer in the points standing at the end of the year. He wasn't, and was a long way off at that. Other that at Qatar and Assen he never really looked close to beating Marquez in a straight fist fight on track. I am a dyed in the wool Rossi fan but even I can see that he is reaching the end of his career now and is struggling to fight against younger riders with a different style. replacing Burgess also shows that Rossi absolutely knows his bike is the same as Lorenzos, so has changed the only variable he had left to play with. Lyn Jarvis has actually issued a veiled threat that Rossi must improve next year if he is to keep his place in the team beyond 2014 (and he KNOWS what is going on in the garage and who has what in terms of machinery!). Personally I think Yamaha have already decided that Pol Espagaro will join Lorenzo in 2015 and that Rossi will be replaed regardless of his position next year unless he wins the title. Maybe they will move him to WSB but the writing is on the wall before the season even starts. | ||
| Jaimec |
Still sounds like an "excuse" to me. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Details on the EBR team in a press release today. See thread here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/158 664/728066.html?1386874152 | ||
| Blake |
What a load of bunk. Anytime an American does well, it's because he has some huge advantage in machinery. Whenever a Brit does poorly, it's because his machinery is inferior. Give it a rest Matt. No one in recent history, maybe ever, has compared to the rookie performance of Ben Spies in WSBK. Rookie to WSBK, new to the tracks, new bike, new team, new tires and he puts on a clinic for the entire field. | ||
| Classax |
No doubt Spies WAS a special talent. A rare combination of skill, daring, drive and physical and mental strength. Looking towards the future, I notice no teams including EBR have declared they will run under the EVO rules. 2015 will be the year we see new machines and how competitive they are instead of how much "go fast" each team can afford to tack on. That will really expose really great riders from the aliens, or whether the aliens have succumbed to the long term effects of aging. | ||
| Trojan |
Anytime an American does well, it's because he has some huge advantage in machinery. Whenever a Brit does poorly, it's because his machinery is inferior. Nationality really doesn't enter into my thinking when it vomes to racing, but it obviously does with you as you keep suggesting that I have some kind of bias against US riders. I don't and if you read my posts you will see that I champion a load of young US talent constantly on this site. However when I know the facts concerned I am not going to hold back just in case I upset your delicate national sensibilities, sorry. No excuses, Tom Sykes needs no excuses from me that's for sure. Other Brits have lost becaue they have simply not been good enough at world level (Shane Byrne in WSb and James Toseland in MotoGp for starters) so don't think I'm supporting British riders only. In fact most of my favourite riders in history have been Finnish, Italian, French, British, japanese and even the odd American (Steve Baker, Gary Nixon, Dick Mann and Cal Rayborn to name just a few). However.....It is a fact that onloy 2 US riders have done well in WSB in the last 20 years (i.e finished in the top 5 at theend of the season or won races). That isn't a great record. If we wnat to startwearing national flags I think Britain wins that battle easily | ||
| Classax |
The Americans make a better superbike than the British do now though... hehehe | ||
| Simond |
I don't think the British have ever created a Superbike - unless you count the Rotary Nortons.........which you really shouldn't! It's daft trying to compare riders at different stages of their careers. Ben Spies' season in WSB was very, very impressive but you have to look at where riders are in their careers, what machinery they have and what the opposition was like. The quality of the WSB field varies enormously from year to year. Neil Hodgson only won once Troy Bayliss had left WSB. Ben Spies' main competition was Nori Haga who was well past his best. Neil Hodgson's performance in AMA has to be tempered by the fact that he was at the end of his career, carrying injuries and looking to fatten his pension. Judging him on his AMA performances would be like judging Ben Spies on his performance in the last couple of years. Anyway, I've just forwarded the Buell/WSB announcement to all my friends that continue to ask me "what's the name of those funny bikes you ride?" I'm delighted to see Buell in the WSB paddock next year. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
FACT: The British pretty much lead the world in racing motorcycle design and development. Rocket in England | ||
| Simond |
......rarely with a British name or British money though. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I beg to differ Simon. Brit's might not have their name in lights like the Japanese, but achievement wise we are right at the top of the tree in manufacture design and execution. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
There are a lot fo chassis and setup firms in the UK that never get their name on the side of the bike although they have huge input. FTR and Fabrication techniques are just two of the chassis manufacturers involved in current MotoGP chassis design, but if you go into other classes such as Supermono and classic racing the range of British frames and engines is huge! When it comes to classic racing prety much EVERYONE is using a British built replica engine and frame combination. And just to debunk the idea that Blake has that I somehow have a bias against foreign riders, here is a short list of some of my favourite riders..... Noricke Abe (japanese) Jarno Saarinen + Teppi lansavori (both Finnish) Johnny Cecotto (Venezualen) Ray Pickrell (British through and through) Gary Nixon (USA) Dick Mann (USA) Cal Rayborn (USA) Valentino Rossi (Italian) Renzo Pasolini (Italian) Walter Vila (Italian) Jon Ekerold (South African) Barry Sheene (British) Steve Baker (USA) Scott Redding (British) Maverick Vinales (Spanish) Marc Marquez (Spanish).. The list could go on, but you get the point I hope | ||
| Hughlysses |
So, Matt, now that the Hero-EBR team has been announced, can you tell us anything about the team owner and crew chief? | ||
| Classax |
Rocket must have meant "Brittons" pretty much lead in superbike manufacturing and design. The UK does have a lot of cool aftermarket companies, but Triumph and Norton aren't building anything anywhere near as radical or technologically advanced as the EBR bikes. Which is really saying something, because Triumph makes a truly serious piece of kit. Back to WSBK talk, am I the only one who sees the limited run homologation model as bad for the sport? Ultra exclusive bikes no one but the factory teams can buy, racing at 6 seconds ahead of the rest of the grid per race is not fun to watch. Its nearly what we have now. Wait that is what we have now, only in the future the "factory" race bikes will have most of the cost up front. I like the idea of joe public, me, being able to ride a replica of my favorite racer's mount at sub millionaire cost of ownership. Moving that market to "select" customers will kill an already weak sportbike market which in the USA has a direct affect on interest in the racing. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
What Rocket meant is Britain is up there at the top in Superbike and Moto GP racing. We might not have a manufacturer in the fight, but British input is massive in global motorsport. Motorcycle racing included! Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
It is no coincidence that the majority of F1 teams and a lot of top flight bike racing teams are based in Britain. When it comesw to advanced engineering we still have a lot of world leading skills here. I wish we could say the same about other trades  So, Matt, now that the Hero-EBR team has been announced, can you tell us anything about the team owner and crew chief? I think that EBR have done what Ducati and other manufacturers have done in WSb and basically got an established team to run their factory team for them, which has to be a very sensible move as they will have experiece of the series and circuits that EBR lack. Claudio Quintarelli -team owner Has been team manager for Martini racing in Italian CIV and World Supersport competiton, so is very experienced in European and world championship racing. Giulio Bardi - Team manager don't know much about this guy execpt that has been the official starter for WSB/Superstock last year and was also the team/rider representaive on the WSBK safety commission. Both facts point to him being extremely experienced in WSB racing, although I don't know anything else about him. He must have held a leading position in at least one WSBK team in order to be appointed team rep on the safety commission I would imagine. I'm assuming based on the names, and Geoff Mayes photos of his new home town, that the team is going to be permanently based in Italy, and may well take over from an existing team structure and facilities? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Very interesting article on EBR's involvement posted by Classax in the EBR forum: http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_13012_erik_buel l_talks_about_world_superbike_plans/ | ||
| Glitch |
No parts for testing in Australia, might make it to Spain. Looks like EBR will have to play catch up. http://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/50127/Erik-Buell -Racing-(EBR)-Keine-Teile-fuer-Testfahrten.html | ||
| Jyhfeei |
From what I read, they will test in Spain before they go to Australia. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de& u=http://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/50127/Erik-Bue ll-Racing-(EBR)-Keine-Teile-fuer-Testfahrten.html&prev=/sear ch%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/50127%26biw%3D12 00%26bih%3D825 | ||
| Trojan |
From what I read, they will test in Spain before they go to Australia. I read somewhere that they MAY test at Almeria in Spain IF they can get enough spares together to test. If not they will go to Australia with no testing at all Don't know how much truth there is in it, but it all seems a bit lastminute.com to me. Most WSb teams have had at least two tests over the winter and will test at Philip Island before the first round too. EBR will have to play major catch up if they get no testing prior to the first race, especially as there is no in season testing allowed, as that will pretty much make each round a test session. | ||
| Reepicheep |
More testing would be nice, but this is a "new to WSBK rider" on a "new to WSBK bike". The whole season is going to be a test session no matter how much testing you get in. | ||
| Firstbuell |
hey Trojan I'd say your analysis is accurate, unfortunately fortunately, EBR kinda knew that going in..... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
fortunately, EBR kinda knew that going in..... I don't wish to rake over old coals, but hasn't this been an issue for Buell going racing since forever? What good will it do to enter WSBK and use the season to progress as if every round were a test session? I can only imagine if a manufacturer team (not sighting anyone in particular) enters such a prestigious class with non, little, or some intention of doing well, their motive is to be rewarded in some other way other than racing to win. Otherwise, long term without any success, a reputation will be crucified. Such then can only be to market their product if not racing to win. In WSBK is this not a dangerous gamble unless it's a publicity stunt perhaps thought of as something to do for a season, maybe two, whilst selling bikes, whilst harking on about how well they did to even get on the grid. Will such cement a favourable to public reputation. Better still. Will it sell product. With regard to Hero EBR. Are they in this for real racing or is it something utterly different which inevitably is going to let down the real supporters of the racing I wonder. Matt, what is the structure for financial support from Dorna in WSBK. Is there such, as like in F1 when scoring 1 point or more? Surely a team of Hero EBR size can't race indefinitely without covering a fair sum of the costs in doing so. I can't imagine Hero having an open wallet or cheque book. After all, Foggy found this out once Petronas realised how much money was involved, and pulled the plug. And I'm thinking Petronas must have more financial clout than Hero. Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
, , , Hahahahaha . . . . . is this thread keeping you guys away from your Optimist Club meeting? I think the most accurate of the above statements . . . . . .well, I'm going with . . .
Let me help . . . we know precisely NOTHING beyond the fact that they are fielding a team. I'm guessing here (like everyone else, even if they don't say so) that EBR has had plans for sometime, done a lot of background work and probably was able to pull the entire thing (folks are not quick to part with the tens of millions $$$ it takes to race) together just in time to allow the team to compete this year. There are certain elevated challenges to a first year team . . . Ducati faced them . . Suzuki faced them. . . Yamaha faced them and EBR will face them. I. . .for one . . . could not be more excited. See ya at the races . . . Court | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Just sitting here reading all the comments and wondering.............."Just why does someone race anything". Well I think a person (rider) does so for money, the pure adrenalin rush and just plain fun riding, as us all enjoy. Someone like Erik, exactly the same with the addition of using his engineering expertise to achieve his longtime dream of creating a viable racing motorcycle, and has already done so several times. Now a large corporation like Amsoil and Hero, just to increase sales and bottom line using the racing exposure. Now with that said I believe Hero will look at it through their accounting dept. to see if eventually the money spent on racing and the development of future bikes for them will increase that bottom line. Also being a new team in WSB, even if they only place in the top ten but regularly, it should really give them the exposure they need for the ultimate outcome (their bottom line). But I also believe they WILL have to do at least that. Any higher places or a podium finish would propel them remarkably. The talk about EBR is already starting all over and that IS a form of exposure. I too am excited for Erik & the Elves. Dreams can come true. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
If you're correct about top ten finishes Bob, and you may well be, perhaps Hero EBR are confident enough they'll get top ten, it being their goal thus far, and they're not too concerned about pre-season testing. I'm just guessing of course. A prerogative of the armchair racer see Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
>>>Now with that said I believe Hero will look at it through their accounting dept. to see if eventually the money spent on racing and the development of future bikes for them will increase that bottom line. HERO has already reaped TREMENDOUS (as in 8 figure) benefits from their association with EBR. Be mindful . . . while folks were hanging around the back door at East Troy waiting for a motorcycle the last 4 years that there has been MUCH going on. There was an events, nearly 3 years ago that sealed the commercial variability and profitability of the association between EBR and HERO. | ||
| Court |
Erik . . . not the least bit unlike Rocket . . . would race if you gave him:
It's in the DNA. |
