| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
I have been looking into this and, with the help of someone who knows more than me, come up with a few points of interest. The first is that the AGM battery needs volts not amps like a lead acid battery would. In the past I would charge it to the "volt" level needed (as per HDs numbers) which would only be a hour or two on a 80% charged battery but that is NOT right. I have been messing with both my 06 and 10 batteries and found this. These are the FACTS and proven with the correct meters, running the bike in the conditions and noting the faults, etc. A) Running the bike for 10 miles or so is NOT putting back into the battery what has been used just starting it with the lights. How long you need to ride to do so I have yet to find out. Maybe 30 plus. Who knows? 10 would be ok on most bikes. B) A standing bike DOES have a small parasitic drain and WILL take the edge off the batteries charge even over just a week. C) There is NOTHING wrong with the quality or output of the HD AGM battery, for this bike, IF it is charged right. D) The bikes ECM is taking its "own sweet time" changing from warm-to-cold conditions, and back, with regards to startup enrichment. This does not help any and every "re-start" just makes the battery charge situation a LOT worse. After a overnight charge, with a 700Ma electronic charger, both the 06 and 10 batteries will now hold a constant/sustained 12.84 volts charge over several days off the bike. This is good and PROVES the battery. Ok so a cold battery WILL have a lower CCR but these STILL "spin-up" the bike, cold battery, real easy even in 0C conditions. Ok so what to do? Well I would say, if your not doing lots of miles daily, either leave it (if you can) on a tender or take the battery off and charge it overnight about every two weeks with one if not. The "key" from what I can tell is the battery volt level. A "top-up" volt cycle of the battery makes it work good. Its just my opinion but i think the problems are down to not knowing what the AGM battery needs, HDs info and the bikes low output. Which for me runs along the lines of the bikes Torque settings and its wheel bearing issues ie bad info? | ||
| Eaglerider |
While there are exception, such as the AGM Optima, most AGM batteries do not like to be fast charged (20A+). A drain down AGM battery will not be sufficiently recharged by riding around town for 30 minutes. Use a trickle charger with float control. They can be purchased inexpensively. Harbor Freight has one on-sale for $5.99. It's cheap and keeps the battery at its maximum life. | ||
| Uly_man |
OGEE DO PIP it? Buy a freaking Honda? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
AGM batteries ARE Lead/acid batteries. The electrolyte is not a free liquid sloshing around like the traditional design. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery#History The disadvantage of our "Dry" batteries is if you electrolyze the water out of the solution by overcharging, you can't just dump water back in. | ||
| Uly_man |
Cool. To be honest Its got to the point that I could care less? It might be better if some found there own way. (Message edited by Uly_man on January 28, 2013) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good methodical thinking. Power is a measure of how much work can be done, and when measuring the potential for work in an electrical system, two elements MUST be considered if you don't want to fool your self. You must look at both volts and amps. Power, expressed in watts, is the product of volts multiplied by amps. You could have 1000 volts and no amps, and it doesn't mean squat. It's what you get (literally) walking across a carpet and touching the back of your buddys neck to give them a static shock. Entertaining, but not a lot of real work was done. There just aren't enough amps. So chasing down this kind of problem using unloaded volts, especially in a rolling chemistry experiment like a battery, is going to be hard to use to get meaningful results. Temperature will change it, the charge may 'settle' over time, the load will dramatically change the measured voltage (regardless of the actual power in the battery), etc. But your root conclusion is accurate. The Harley AGM batteries aren't bad batteries, they are good, and well chosen for their application in Buells. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Have there been folks complaining about the stock battery? I am still on my original '06 battery, so I certainly can't complain. I don't keep it on a tender normally, either. Just occasionally. I finally gave up trying to remember how to charge each battery, and sprang for an Optimate 4 charger. Yes, it's about $75, but that is less than the cost of 1 battery for most vehicles, and it takes the guesswork out of charging any type of lead-acid battery (wet, AGM, gel), and has a good automatic de-sulphation program should the battery need it. I am not on the Lithium battery bandwagon yet, so don't need to worry about them. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
We've got the Shorai lithium batteries in both our Ulys. So far so good. I go out in the garage and put them on the charger for about 15 minutes once per week this winter. The charger takes them up to about 13.5 volts before I unhook. Shorai runs higher voltage than the regular lead-acid batteries. Too many bikes and not enough chargers. Big difference is the super light weight and cost. Probably should buy a Shorai charger but it isn't cheap. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Electra - will be good to see how these hold up for you "early adopters". My comment was because I have read that lithium battery makers tell you NOT to use a charger that has a de-sulphation (rescue) mode like the Optimates. Did anyone or any information tell you this on your Shorai's? | ||
| Arry |
Hey, if lithiums are good enough for Boeing... | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
... battery under ass. Ouch. | ||
| Uly_man |
All types of battery need there "own type" of charging because of there construction. As I said in the past I charged the AGM battery to the 12.7v spec, as per HDs numbers, but always had problems. At the moment (after 5 days) the 06 battery is holding a charge at 12.8v and is something it NEVER did before. The 10 battery has been run, standing two days and run (it spun up the bike real fast) today, holding a 12.9v charge and its a cold day. These are just my toughts/opinion and even though I have tried I am unable to find any details on the manner of an AGM type battery. My conclusion is though that they need to be treated in a diff way than the "old style" lead acid battery. The point of this post is to try and fix one of the three main problems with the bike. The others being wheel bearings and running problems. But all three can be faults with many a modern bike these days. At the end of the day the Uly may "seem" a simple bike, and in many ways it is, but if you "look deep" there is a lot of "tech" in the bike and that needs to be treated with the respect of that design. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Arctickm, Not supposed use a de-sulpation charger. Shorai warns about that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEV2iYAZIw4 | ||
| Arcticktm |
Electra, Thanks, that's what I had heard but not from any reliable source. Good to know. I used to work with Yuasa in a previous job, and based on their input, the TecMate Optimate4 I just bought (and similar charger from competitor) is good for all types of lead-acid, including AGM and gel, as long as they are 12v (this version does not do 6v). That is NOT meant to imply they can all be charged the same. What it means is that the charger is a smart charger and can detect what type of battery you connect, it's condition, and then select the appropriate charge mode. That's why it costs $75 instead of a $20 item like I also have from Wal-Mart (which works fine if you know what battery types/conditions it will work on). However, this would not apply to Lithium, since they are not lead acid. I now see TecMate has a new model they call "Lithium", so even my new universal charger isn't quite so universal now. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Lithium" is a generic "term" for Li-Ion, Li-Po and others. They do need the right type of charger and can take a VERY high charge rate. They also get very hot and can explode if not charged right. At least the Li-Po ones can. Some people place them on a big metal plate to act as a heat sink while charging them. These come from racing and from what I can see may not be so good for road work. One problem seems to be that they can crap out in cold conditions. Although I have never tried one. EG would know better. A new use for my old 06 AGM battery. The portable air pumping station. Works real good.  |
