| Author |
Message |
    
Joesbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:33 pm: | 
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better safe than sorry  |
Busterx
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:33 pm: |
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count me in Al, I want a set |
Biggie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 12:11 am: |
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Al I will buy a set of those when you have a run ready for market.
Just one question though would they work on a XBR? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 12:45 am: |
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That is one of the reason I'm pursuing this approach. The firebolt and 1125R triple clamps, while VERY similar, are NOT exactly the same width. This approach will work on both bikes with the right cables and such. The OEM bars are the same parts, left and right, on both bikes. |
Biggie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 08:49 am: |
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Al are you planning on makeing bars similar to the O.P.? Or are you planning on making a set like the verti-bars? What is your idea's? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 10:07 am: |
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I don't know what you mean by "the O.P."
I've diverted my current riser path from a new top triple tree approach based on Converti-bars back to the 2nd approach I'd CADded, that are very similar to the ones Adrian showed in this thread. I'm getting cost quotes, finalizing the CAD model, doing some structural calcs, etc. If everything converges properly, we'll have some like Adrian's soon.
But its not done until it's done. I'm usually hesitant to comment on ongoing design projects because any one of a number of things can derail them. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 11:58 am: |
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Adrian,
I just ran through some stress calcs, and some strength concerns expressed here are valid. How thick is the plate that you have connecting the root bar to the long bar? I'd guess from the pictures that it is about 3/16" thick. If true, that puts the moment of inertia of that plate at about 1/28th that of the actual tube, and that makes for some very high stresses in that part. The bending strength of that plate doesn't match the bending strength of the tube until it gets to be about .47" thick or so. It doesn't appear from the picture that yours could be any thicker than 1/4". So be careful. Push really hard on it, be very convinced that you can't break it sitting still. You don't want to find out that you CAN break it while you're moving!
Al |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 02:01 pm: |
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Maybe put a gusset from the bar to the plate to strengthen it?
ac |
Jandj_davis
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 02:50 pm: |
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Al, have you give thought to a "riser" or adapter? Basically create a new mounting point with a small adapter, rather creating a whole new handlebar with the rise built in? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 03:08 pm: |
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yup, been there, done that. Won't work, for the reasons discussed earlier in this thread. There are switch pod and cable launch constraints that will block that approach big time.
No space for gussets. Minimizing the extra bar length required to get the cable clearance is the priority for this scheme to work. A thicker plate solves the problem reasonable well.
Al |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 03:13 pm: |
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There is plenty of space for a welded gusset under the design shown in the first post.
ac |
Marinus
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 04:42 pm: |
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Before I reveal my ignorance by posting comments, must say I'm liking the general plan of these riser bars, and I'm gleeful and confident that Al's proceeding with the required engineering.
Now for the other... IANAME (I am not a mechanical engineer) but:
A. The usual stresses on handlebars come from the force of the rider's muscles. Given that, are we worried about the plate tweaking from a rider's countersteering? Or that it won't hold up as well in a low-side crash?
B. Is not bending the connector plate a distinct failure mode from breaking the connector plate? Breaking, bad. Bending, uhmm, well, in general not so bad?
Or would the lowered stiffness of the assembly lead us to expect oscillations/flex cycles causing metal fatigue, cracking, and abrupt failure?
Just trying to understand Al's concern. I'm NOT suggesting he accept any shortcuts (I get the impression he'd ignore that suggestion anyway -- which IMHO is a good thing). |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 04:58 pm: |
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Al wrote: "So be careful. Push really hard on it, be very convinced that you can't break it sitting still. You don't want to find out that you CAN break it while you're moving!"
Will be very careful. I'm prepared to buy proper made bars. Here is a picture of the inspiration for my bars. They are Helibars for a BMW K1300R. Note the riser material is much thicker.
BTW Al - I emailed those close-ups of the switches at the bottom of the clutch and brake levers. Let me know that you got them.
(Message edited by aeholton on November 18, 2009) |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 05:03 pm: |
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Marinus - I don't think the material with break. However, it might bend under extreme situations. I will try to avoid those until Al has production bars. |
Prowler
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 05:53 pm: |
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I'm either going to do something like this myself of will buy something similar if someone decides to make them. The "home-made" ones look good other than the too thin strap between the tubing. I would bet that under severe loading, those things will fold (picture heavy...OK, really heavy panic stop braking). Under those conditions, you could see a couple G's of loading on those bars (maybe 400-600lbs) of force with your arms locked and brake and clutch levers both pulled hard. I would have gone with some heavier plate of bar stock for the strap. The concept is great though. I think a one inch rise on these bars would solve my hurting wrists.....and would look good also. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 06:45 pm: |
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Got 'em...The clearances are very tight, but knowing what they are, I can design around them.
I saw those Heli bars for the BMW some time back. Those are 6061 aluminum, and solid at the base, thus the much thicker stock there. The SS bars can be less stout.
Al |
Biggie
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 07:45 pm: |
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Al by O.P. I meant original poster=Adrian.
I am glad you have thought to go with that design as it should keep cost down and no unsightly fork clamps like the vertbars.
I also very much appreciate the time and care you are putting into testing these.It's for this reason if I ever need anything I know that I will be able to trust buying from you. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 09:12 pm: |
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Has anybody measured or tried to fit those BMW Heli-bars on an XB or 1125?
Obviously they must not work otherwise we'd all be using them, but since I don't have the resources to find out the answer myself, if someone here knows, I'd appreciate the info.
On another note, I got stiffed ordering Convertibars through House of Handlebars in Long Beach. I think they might be going out of business and I just ordered through them at the wrong time.
Al, I might be giving you a call  (as soon as I can get a credit on that transaction  ). |
Aeholton
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 09:18 pm: |
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Won't work. The Buell bars are keyed at the end and have a threaded hole to hold them in place. Not sure what the diameter on the BMW bars are and they are designed for a clamp type mount. |
Biggie
| | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 10:26 pm: |
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Bump.... Is there any update? Or a seperate thread on these bars al is looking at produceing? |
Aj2010
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 02:19 am: |
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I've installed a firebolt upper triple clamp (did not read Al_Lighton's post about different widths until later) I can say that the 1125 upper clamp went onto the XB front end I have in the basement, very easily so I am wondering just what this width difference is? I have to admit that I was really only concerned with tube diameters but will check spacing measurements tomorrow. If need be I will swap out the lower clamp as well. I thought I would also have to raise the fairing a bit for additional clearance. But as it turns out the master cylinders clear just fine. I will post a few pictures soon. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
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I'm working on them. Got quotes back from the shop, finalized the CAD model pending the installation of a prototype that's getting fabbed, hope to submit drawings to the shop for production within two weeks.
Al |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 12:51 pm: |
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The center to center distance for the fork tubes is 7.757" on the 1125R, and it's 7.678 on the XBs. If you use the wrong one, you'll get premature slider bushing and fork tube wear inside the fork tube. I believe the difference is caused by the fact that the 1125 has 47mm slider tubes, and the XB12 has 43mm slider tubes.
Al |
Ron_luning
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 09:17 pm: |
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Can someone confirm that the below part numbers are correct for the longer pieces in the CR high-bar kit?
H1531.1AT Front brake line
N0103.1AT Clutch line
N0307.1AT Throttle cable
N0308.1AT Throttle cable
The dealer couldn't get any info from the high bar kit part number (i.e. nothing came up when they put in the part number out of the Buell accessory catalog), so I had them order these parts based on another post here on Badweb.
Are those the correct parts for raised bars? |
Aj2010
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 09:39 pm: |
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Ron, the t-cables and clutch line numbers are what I have just ordered. Guess I won't be able to confirm until they actually arrive. They are the numbers as listed in the 2010 CR parts book though. Can't comment on the brake line as I used one from an XB Lightning.
AL thanks so much for your help. Your explanation of what would likely happen if I used the miss matched clamps, sounds dead on. Your theory about why they widened the spacing by 2.2mm didn't really make sense, once I thought about it, the widest part of the fork tubes (upper) is the mounting surfaces, and they are identical diameters for both 1125 with it 47mm sliders and the 05 on XB's with their 43mm sliders. Perhaps they were having some bearing spacing issues and figured the extra width would help down by the axle. I figured at worst I would have to shave 1.1 mm off of the inner axle mounting surface of the right leg. But nope, it all fit together with the Lightning triples (both upper and lower) and the 1125 tubes. I checked the spacing after working the forks and before tightening everything up. There was about .75 mm clearance remaining on the left side between fork tube (bottom of slider) and the outside of the wheel bearing, so all seems fine. Not so lucky with my handlebars though, they hit the top of the fork tubes and I will have to change them for a set that starts bending upward immediately after the bar clamps. 
Will post pics once I have it all sorted out, but at least the clamp issue seems to be solved 
Does anyone know what/how to tension/ torque the steering head bearings. Doing it right would likely be better then driving any distance with them over tightened, me thinks.
(Message edited by aj2010 on November 21, 2009) |
Peter_nikols
| | Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 04:50 pm: |
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Hello,
Is there any reason the rise can't be 2 inches instead of 1 inch?
From what I can tell the benefit of the Convertbars is that the rise and pullback can be adjusted to any setting. That's pretty awesome. But I agree they are ugly...
If someone could manufacture a set of convertibar mounts that use the original handlebar inlets on the tripple tree instead of the clamps, that would be the best. I wish I could do it. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:35 pm: |
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There was a bunch of discussion started here about Adrian's jogged bars, and we've since produced them and they're ready. The discussion continued in another thread, but I figured I'd wrap up the original thread that started it with a link to the ongoing discussion:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/529555.html?1264632163
The bars are complete, and we have them in stock with the necessary clutch lines to mount them. Links are in the thread referenced above.
Al |
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