| Author | Message | ||
     Teddagreek |
I think they had an issue with Xopti using the software to make maps, and then charging a fee for those maps. Persons here got pissed when Ecm spy hit. I believe a lot of that was sponsor/BW related Conflict of INTERE$T If I'm a sponsor and one of the products I sell is a 300 dollar program and the forum I sponsor has a people talking about a better and free program. I've not done maps yet but I've used ECM Spy and another program I bought from a sponsor to trouble shoot my bike does that take business away from buell? I've used freeware shareware to make a profit.. How is that any different that say using a free browser to access eBay and buy and sell? Some people pay a professional to sell their stuff or set up your eBay store to sell their stuff.  For all you guys dogging it yet go to mike or other sites for help don't worry I won't tell.. | ||
| Zatco81 |
So why take it down? It sounds like they just didn't have the time or desire to carry forward with development. Why not just leave it the way it is and still available for download? Sounds like we're not getting the full story here. | ||
| Court |
>>>So am I to believe anybody who does custom stuff to stock parts and sells it is doing illegal activities? Although . . perhaps technically so, unless the program would prevent a person from going awry of EPA specs. But . . fact of the matter is that most these firms have about $500 net worth so their exposure is quite limited . . . the "blood from a turnip" doctrine. This becomes perhaps more germane when folks get pissy about Buell and HD race parts and "why doesn't Buell sell straight pipes" because they are much more attractive in terms of the probability of recovering large fines and for "making an example" of. Who knows what happened to them but it seems that many of these small firms come and go over the years. | ||
| Fireboltwillie |
what do the gosh darn germans got to do with it??? kidding  | ||
| Zatco81 |
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Xopti that got in trouble, or the threat thereof, for modding stock mufflers? Seems like I read it on one of those other boards. | ||
| Boltrider |
Is this a freeware issue, or an EPA issue? The freeware argument doesn't hold water with me. As for the EPA, well let's not stop at the ECM. Let's take everything away. So from a technical standpoint, what Drummer is doing is also illegal. Did I mention I can't stand the EPA?  | ||
| Fireboltwillie |
is gunter and the ecmspy team in europe? can the epa really do anything to them? and my understanding of the epa regs are that you can't modify the exhaust system of a motorcycle. but yet our moto-rags are loaded with products. haven't figured that one out yet, but i live in denver where there is always the threat of getting pulled over to have my muffler checked. | ||
| Boltrider |
Yeah, I live in Cali and the shadow of CARB is everywhere. The word is that newer motorcycles (2000 and up) will have to undergo smog checks beginning in 2012 here in California. Bunch of crap if you ask me. (Message edited by boltrider on June 15, 2009) | ||
| Andymnelson |
lol at all the speculation here! lawsuits, EPA, license agreement, doomsday.... ALL SPECULATION! They chose to end the project. Until they actually admit why (personally I THINK it's because of the guy that's selling the software on eBay that got them miffed (NOT xopti btw). They were all upset that he took info (that was freely given to him by Gunter) and then WROTE HIS OWN SOFTWARE!), then why speculate? Oh wait... | ||
| Zatco81 |
but yet our moto-rags are loaded with products. haven't figured that one out yet All it has to say is "For offroad/race use only. Problem solved. Sell whatever you like. and what's wrong with speculation? Often speculation leads to the truth. (Message edited by zatco81 on June 15, 2009) | ||
| Swordsman |
Okay, they end the project. If they were simply tired of updating, what's with the "ANY DISTRIBUTION OR HOSTING OF OUR SOFTWARE ON OTHER SERVERS IS PROHIBITED!"  And the download is not on Xopti's site. That's just a link that reroutes you to the ECMspy site. ~SM | ||
| Fireboltwillie |
<----missed the obvious. hate when i do that | ||
| Fastxb12r |
WHEW....I would of posted sooner but ive been busy selling all that there ECMSPY softwares I mean fastxb12r softwares on ebay.   I just figured I would ease the tension a little..... (Message edited by fastxb12r on June 15, 2009) | ||
| Oxygen151 |
I really don't get why a lot of people on this site are being negative towards xopti. Mike does great work, and offers a lot of free advice and help with remapping our bikes. He charges a minimal fee for maps. I honestly do not think one could simply turn a big enough profit to live confortably by remapping the few buell ecms there are. Mike does this work in his free time. Is your free time and applying the knowledge that you gained worth any $ to you? I know mine is. ECMspy was designed as a free program to help us get the most out of our bikes. How many other brands of motorcycles have something like this available to them? Mike helped out a lot of people, probably even some of you here on badweb. I think until something gets officially announced as far an any legal actions, I think we should all stop trying to blame one person. (Message edited by oxygen151 on June 15, 2009) | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Id also like to thank the creators of ecm spy for really cool software and also to xopti. Ive seen and read his posts talking about ecm spy and helping enthusiasts and I know he has spent alot of his free time doing so. | ||
| Blake |
Ted, I have no recollection of anyone here expressing anger about ECMspy. Personally, I thought and still think that the ECMspy as freeware was/is one of the coolest deals for Buell enthusiasts ever. | ||
| Pogue_mahone |
someone should re do it under the open source /linux crowd/free software people. then freely distributable peruse www.freshmeat.net u may be able to find people to take this up to a conclusion. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Before I bought the XB I have now I almost bought a speed triple instead. Aside from the XB fitting better having access to ecm spy made the deal even sweeter. | ||
| Gbalias |
there are other software packages that allow eeprom editing. those poeple who dont want to do the extra work to decode everything and want a simple GUI are the ones complaining. tunercats, winols, etc. do your research, and complain later. ecmspy didnt even open the whole eeprom for editing. thats why Xopti work was beneficial....the edits were done to attributes not seen in the UI of spy. | ||
| Geforce |
Look at it this way. I use EFI Live for my Turbo Silverado SS and the software/hardware alone costs $900... then you are left with a program that allows you to do whatever you want to ONE VIN# ECM. In order to modify another vehicle you must purchase a VIN license for an additional $99 per VIN. Not only that, you have to really pour in some serious time to learning the software, not to mention being any damned good at it. ECMSpy was a great idea by good folks. Sucks it's gone. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
What sucks is that now there actually will be a market for copies of ECM Spy on eBay and other such outlets. Sure it might not be legal but do you think that will stop people from profiting off of it? | ||
| Teddagreek |
I have no recollection of anyone here expressing anger about ECMspy. Personally, I thought and still think that the ECMspy as freeware was/is one of the coolest deals for Buell enthusiasts ever. Blake, I should have been more specific, it was more about maps being copied and the legalities pertaining to a factory warranty.. I have a Race ECM.. At what Point does the Map cease to be a race Ecm map, if I'm doing a custom tune?  If I give that map to a friend is that illegal? I kinda look at it like a recipe.. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/325666.html http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/315063.html | ||
| Xl_cheese |
ecmspy didnt even open the whole eeprom for editing. thats why Xopti work was beneficial....the edits were done to attributes not seen in the UI of spy. The only thing xopti did to the ecm that was not visible with ecmspy was to add the changes between the stock and race ecms. He makes the changes in winols and does not even know what they are. I asked him repeatedly and it finally came out. | ||
| Court |
I'm like Blake, I've never heard a bad word. But there is part of me that can see LOTS of legal issues. >>>can the epa really do anything to them? By the way . . . the last person in Europe to taunt Harley-Davidson with that challenge, with regard to Buell, did not fare well in the ensuing tiff. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
The bottom line is ecmspy spy sweetened the deal when considering a Buell. Like another member said this kind of software can cost upwards of a grand for cars. I'll bet the older model XB's which are compatible with ecm spy latest version will more sought after. This software isnt going anywhere for awhile. | ||
| Fastxb12r |
WHY does it always come down to "OMFG it illegal"......   People do things in life everyday thats illegal and the bottom line is most of them are only illegal because someone else is losing business due to people finding a cheaper way of doing their job and they have enough money to get their way. Personally I think their are some rather frivolous laws that need to be changed.I also think their is some rather serious things that their isnt laws for that their should be. Serious question not a complaint.........Is it illegal to take a race map change one thing on it and resell it?If it isnt why isnt it? | ||
| Fastxb12r |
Some of the better reads..... Jlnance  People do all sorts of mechanical things to their bikes. It's even encouraged by the factory. Mechanical things intimidate the hell out of me. I remember the first time I broke off a bolt head, I about had a heart attack (I've since learned about Helicols.) I get the impression that most people here are very comfortable mechanically, and that traditionally that has been the case with people who have liked motorcycles. These same people tend NOT to be as comfortable with electrical issues. You can see this come up occasionally when someone wants to convert a FI bike to carbs, the great love of BMW's CANBUS, or comments on some of the fly-by-wire throttle systems. I'm on the other side of the fence. While I'm mechanically inept, I've got a masters degree in Electrical Engineering with controls course work, and 14 years experience as a computer programmer. If I had the source code for the ECM, my Uly would not surge at low speeds, I could fix that. This isn't because I'm smarter than the Buell guys, but because I could mess with it for a year or two, a luxury they don't have. The problem is I don't have the ECM source code. Why isn't it in the service manual next to the wiring diagrams? (I realize one of the reasons is legal issues.) There isn't really any fundamental difference between rejetting a carb, which is a common and uncontroversial activity, and reprogramming a fuel map. There does seem to be a huge difference in attitude about doing it though. As computers get cheaper and cheaper, more functionality will move from a mechanical realization into a software implementation. In theory this will make bikes MORE customizable than they are today, as modifying software is easier than modifying hardware. But that is not going to happen if people accept the idea that the computer is a black box that should be hidden from the owner. Whitj Sort of like M$ telling you it's ok to buy an Xbox and games as well. Just don't open it up or God help you. Mod it and you going to hell. If you buy a new Ford w/ a V-6 and you decide to swap it out w/ a V-8 what can Ford do about it? Nada.. I say if you buy a stock ECM and your friend buys a race ECM you both own them. If you want to paint it pink w/ stripes or pull the ECM code and GIVE it to your buddy it's nun of HD's business. Selling it would be a crime. Comments? Punkid8888 Thats its I am outlawing all screw drivers and other hand tools cause if you turn the wrong screw it might mess stuff up, or void your warranty. ECMSpy is simply that a new screwdriver to adjust stuff on a electronic carburetor. If you dont want to turn the screw then don't But I do, and its my bike so I will (insert evil Laugh) Treadmarks ECMspy is a tool like any other in your arsenal. If HD provided it to the public, (which I have already asked and been told NO) it might be different. There is no rule that says you can't wrench on your own bike, change your own oil, or spark plugs. Why not reset your own TPS, and possibly learn how to tune out that nasty EPA PING that your bike came with stock? +1 HD doesn't even provide their own technicians with the level of training necessary to support out product line, much less provide us with the right tools to do it ourselves. I downloaded the free software ECMspy. I bought the cable and plug and assembled them myself with helpful info from this site. I made some changes to enhance my riding experience. I tried some different maps from various sources. ECMspy and access to various maps and information are probably the most valuable tool I have for my Buell. It is just a tool, period. Now before I went with ECMspy, I paid for the bike. I paid for the VDSTS software and dongle thingie. I paid for the key to unlock the ECM. I paid for a custom map from a great site sponsor. My dues are paid in full. I learned about all the negative feedback from fellow badwebbers regarding poor dealer service. Just like everything else, if you want it done right, you have to do it your self. | ||
| Lighting |
I've known personally, I held a get together for Central Floridians at my house with about 10 enthusiast in present and you couldn't ask for a nicer, honest guy than Mike(XOPTIC). Every body present got a shot at resetting their TPS and some of us even got a ECM tune. Don't know the details but it's a lost for most of the Buell owners that like to tune their own bikes...........hope that those that contribute to closing of the site feel really proud and accomplished for their good deed. | ||
| Lighting |
It's my understanding anyone that changes(ANYTHING) in the intake or the exhaust of a motorcycle manufactured from 2004 to date is in violation of the EPA Laws(Clean Air Act). Soon we don't be able to fart without getting permission from the Feds because methane gas polute the air. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think the best part of the program is the ability to reset/zero a TPS. Having Buell riders pay $90 per hour for a TPS reset is robbery. It is procedure that is not necessary on other mfg's motorcycles, and should not have been part of the design in the first place. It is just a revenue stream for the dealers, and a program to re-set it at home should be available from Harley/Buell. |
