| Author | Message | ||
     Eagle1 |
Today I wanted to let the bike run one last time before officially being put to sleep. I was looking things over as she was idling and noticed that the exhaust manifold coming off the rear cylinder head was glowing red-hot. Yes, the bike was idling. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just my bike? The bike has no mods, and has had the reflash. Thanks!  | ||
| Teach |
Mine looks the same... | ||
| Krassh |
Never noticed mine glowing red but really never looked. Wonder if it would glow with the ceramic coating I have on now. | ||
| Zac4mac |
She looks mad. Frogs and birds do that too. | ||
| Slypiranna |
I've been waiting for someone to say this is normal?! I say it is not... Lean, exhaust valve's sealing has been compromised, cam timing off or retarded ignition timing...IMO. Any others want to take a shot? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Can't say it's normal, I have seen Loretta light up on occasion. Not unheard of, maybe not uncommon. Timing and our infamous leaner than stoichiometric fueling? Sure will be glad when I can afford to get Dave's program. Z | ||
| Cscutt |
Mine is the same, but only when not in motion. This is very common on industrial stationary engines, and piston aircraft engines. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Cscutt At idle w/zero load? Please offer more insight as to what you mean. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Z...perhaps. | ||
| Dentguy |
Normal. Seen it plenty of times. My Uly did it, friends XB12 did it, Ducati did it, Yamaha YZ426F did it. It's sitting still with no air flow, the pipes aren't very thick, but exhaust is very hot. Makes them glow in the dark. (Message edited by dentguy on December 13, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Maybe my bikes' are not normal then...or my car, truck, lawnmower and generator for that matter. Who'd have thought...but still, I disagree that this should be considered, normal...mm (Message edited by slypiranna on December 13, 2008) | ||
| Dentguy |
I know I'm not normal. Keep in mind that car, trucks, mowers, generator, etc. may have different materials and thicknesses for exhaust and most don't look at them in the dark. I don't know where the above picture was taken, but it is a dark area where that rear pipe is making it easy to see a glow that probably wouldn't be seen out in daylight. Have you let yours idle for a while (up to normal temp) and looked at it in the dark? You may be surprised. (Message edited by dentguy on December 13, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Hundreds of times and even on a dyno, about four different times. Haven't seen this on mine or any others that I've worked on. I've also done many other (mainly race) engines, most with 16 ga tubing, some with 18 ga...the only times I've witnessed red pipes at IDLE/NO LOAD was when there was something off. For the record, my 08 11 has 8k miles on it. With the stock mapping loaded, the wideband shows an average of 15.2:1 A/F ratio at hot idle...meaning, sometimes leaner/sometimes richer than. The stock mapping also shows AFV's recorded at 105R/100F. Not trying to argue...just attempting to understand.  | ||
| Timi |
Ok guys, altough I haven't said it before, but this is the reason why I I have been asking about a tuner! Both of my pipes are red espically at idle. I have asked and asked for some tuner type of device, and altough there is a "spy" thing and it voids the warr. So where does this leave us? I guess this opens a can of worms. Lean, timing, odd.? Industrial motors doing the same, thin tubeing, weird ecm programing recalls, almost makes me wonder if the EPA wants things so lean that we can't tune to improve the condition without "breaking" the law. Seriously, do we want to do something about this???? Someone make a da@n tuner so we can play! Honda does, Sucki does, Cowasucki does, Yammerha does, Even Ducati, are we "World class"? I think so, hell, I KNOW so! I'm shure the production #'s have something to do with that right now. But this glowing pipes isn't good, in the world of thermaldymanics, there ia a thing called metal fatigue. This is a evil! Metal gets hot and hardens, when that happens, metal gets brittle and tends to crack and break. Or/and warp. (exhaust valves and seats). Then we have to get repaired and it all happens again. Ÿes, my bike runs ok NOW, will it 5yrs from now? Only time has the answer. If I can get this tuning to a level I feel comfortable with, mabie in 09, but now I gotta light my ciggs on the pipes! | ||
| Dentguy |
Slypiranna, No arguing here. I would go fire up the bike and snap a picture, but I had a shoulder repair done a week and a half ago so I'm stuck in this sling for a while. As for the glowing, unless it is in a dark area most will never see any. I've never seen any of mine glowing during the day. (Message edited by dentguy on December 14, 2008) | ||
| Eagle1 |
This pic was taken in a parking garage, and it was fairly dim. The bike was right under a fluorescent light, but that was about it for lighting. With my limited experience with internal combustion engines, I've never seen pipes glow without being under a load. I do find it weird that it's only part of the pipe under the seat. I guess it could be a number of things- mainly that it's the hottest part of the pipe, not much air gets to it, and it's darker there. Unfortunately I can't get the bike to a dealership until spring now, so maybe we can do some research until then. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Chill Timi. Stainless work hardens but it doesn't heat harden for squat. Most alloys, that is. BMC wouldn't use one of the few that do for the pipes for that very reason. Z | ||
| Bpt |
Engine exhaust temps run in the 1200f to 1400f range. Of course at the head, near the point of combustion is the hottest. The thinner the materials used in the exhaust pipe, the more this glow will be evident. This is not a sign that your bike is running too lean. Reading air/fuel with a sniffer is the only proper way to tell what the mixture is. If you try and tune to eliminate glowing exhaust you are going to richen the mixture and make it run poorly. This is normal, thicker exhaust tubing will keep you from noticing it, but I have seen cast iron manifolds glow red. | ||
| Slypiranna |
FWIW, Just got off the phone with my Father. He's an engineer and ex piston pilot. EGT's are highest @ or very near stoic on gasoline piston engines. They fall off on either side of that A/F ratio. That I didn't know, learn something everyday. I tune w/AFR, not EGTs... His final comment was that there isn't enough information to make a call either way yet. He refused to say more. Go figure. | ||
| Black |
Look down the page until you find the thread, "Man you got to see this ...watch the pipe!!" and then check out the YouTube video VELOCITY posted...might explain things...pretty cool...hot. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Your way off base Black. Nothing personal tho... This thread is at idle/no load...re-read...ZERO load and @ idle. What is your response now? Really, we'd all like to understand your input. | ||
| Ponti1 |
(Message edited by ponti1 on December 15, 2008) | ||
| Zac4mac |
At idle. AT32dF, CT172 dF   Just iPhone pix, but you get the idea. Z | ||
| Black |
Slypiranna...hey, no offense taken. You said you had never seen it happen. Timi has seen it. I have never seen it, but the video definitely showed massive heat on the exhaust header. Anyway, we're all here trying to help a brother figure out why his bike is glowing red. As I sit here and mull this over, the bike in question was stated to be at idle. The bike in the video was on a dyno, possibly with insufficient ambient cooling, but it glowed red for a couple of seconds. I have never seen this condition on my bikes. But I have never really looked for the condition, and I'm not sure I would have noticed it from the saddle. Plus, it only happened on the dyno for a couple of seconds. That might be a good data point. The dyno bike was at high RPMs and burning a lot of fuel. I don't understand a cold bike at idle. I was a little surprised the video bike exhaust turned cherry red, even though I have seen that many times on race cars. I'll give that one to ambient cooling. Again, we only saw it for a couple of seconds at high rpm. My gut feel is that firing a bike up and letting it idle (time being an unknown variable) and having a header, or whatever turn cherry red, is not normal. Not enough data to tell though. | ||
| Slypiranna |
FWIW, Stock maps reloaded. In central Ohio, 900' elevation, AFV's 105R/100F, ambient temp; 70' F (yes, inside), coolant temp; 178'F...twenty minutes @ idle/NO load, almost total darkness...only one light on just to make out the pic...NO flash on camera.  | ||
| Slypiranna |
Timi has a nearly wide open/much modified exhaust with stock mapping. Not a good comparison? Under load, on a dyno should also fall into the catagory of not a good comparison? Re-read, Idle/NO load?! (Message edited by slypiranna on December 14, 2008) | ||
| Eagle1 |
Ok, so apparently not all of our bikes do it. For the record, ambient temp when mine glowed was about 65-67F, and it was only idling for about 5 minutes. And yes, the bike definitely did not have a load applied. | ||
| Black |
Hmmmm...pretty interesting Eagle1. Can we assume that all the machines have all the reflashes? Any differences we have missed? | ||
| Chevycummins |
I noticed the glowing pipe the second day I had my bike. Will still do it with the new map if idling for a few minutes. | ||
| Eagle1 |
Black, I think that'd be a safe assumption. I think if anyone's bike has glowing pipes AFTER the reflash is even more reason for concern, given that our bikes have all run cooler since the reflash. |
