| Author | Message | ||
     Nxtr |
This thread is not addressing any issues that haven’t reared there ugly heads in the past. The bottom line is dealer support or lack thereof, and has plagued the Buell line for 25 years. I have owned two a 2000 X1, and now a 1125R, both excellent motorcycles, but each had its little quirks that unfortunately required you to bring them back to the dealer only to find lack of knowledge, support, and just plain I don’t give a damn about it attitudes. I support Erik and his entire company on all they do but to say if your dealer doesn’t treat you right take it to another, will not fly with the general motorcycle buying public. Yes every year brings Buell closer and closer to becoming the best motorcycle brand out there, but until the stigma of support is addressed on a wide scale level it is just not going to happen… Just do a poll of dealerships that support the Buell brand 100%, 50%, and 49% or less as they do the HD brand, I am sure the outcome will be interesting. I am passionate about Buell motorcycles as is everyone who is on this board, and want to see nothing but success of the BMC. New innovative and cutting edge machines will require a something to change in regards to support, just as KOZ5150 stated it is not the consumers job to educate, promote, and defend the brand above and beyond which is what many of us are doing. If Harley Davidson Inc had 1/10th the passion that Erik and the BMC have about their motorcycles, it would the big 5 instead of the big 4. One final thought, you know the late Sam Walton used to drive around the country and visit Wal-Mart stores at random not to talk to the management to end up with an earful of lip service, but to talk with the employees and customers to get a true assessment of how Wal-Mart was doing. Maybe Erik needs to link up with a few folks, take a month or two riding around the country and visiting (unannounced) the Buell dealerships just go out and get a firsthand look as to how we’re seeing and experiencing things, as opposed to lip service and reading dealer rants such as this… V/R, Nick (Message edited by nxtr on July 10, 2008) | ||
| Odinbueller |
"I must have missed those entries in Moto GP? Oh thats right, Buell doesn't have a product that races in the top circuit of motorcycle racing. That's kinda like saying you are the best quarterback in Arena Football. No one really cares. Win on Sunday sell on Monday doesn't work if no one knows you won on Sunday." Hey, I like arena football!  This is true, Buell does not have a completely prototype 800cc race bike to compete in MotoGP. If they had an extra 10 million for a MotoGP team, I believe they would use those funds to further their R&D first. You'll notice Kenny Roberts is nowhere near the grid this year in that premiere class, because it is extremely expensive. Realistically, World Superbike is the way Buell should go, but that ain't cheap either. And don't forget the coverage AMA & Canadian Superbike races receive. That is well within the rules for the 1125R to compete, and while the coverage is not as extensive as MotoGP, they get their fair share of airtime. A lot of people don't realize that it was only a couple of years ago that Buell started to see figures in the black for once. Now, Buell has allied with Grand-Am for the Moto-ST series, which is now growing with each event. TV coverage is OK for these events, but I believe could be better. I have an good authority that Grand Am is working on improving this as well. Roger Edmondson is working hard to make this the premiere motorcycle racing event in North America. Buell will get there, it is just going to take some time. I'm sorry that your faith in the product has been weakened so considerably. I can only assure you that Buell is working hard to make the best product they can, and partner with the best people within their means. I'll leave it at that. (Message edited by odinbueller on July 10, 2008) | ||
| Koz5150 |
Here would be a good survey... Erik walks into a dealership and tries to order parts for an XB, how many people recognize him? I am guessing 10%, maybe? Willie G on the other hand I have seen at the Appleton dealership. He road up from Milwaukee in cold wet weather for an open house and mingled with the crowd for the afternoon. And yes, everyone knew him there! | ||
| Damnut |
I'm guessing that 10% of the people there wouldn't even know what a Buell part looks like, nevermind what Erik looks like.  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Compare the average building of a HD dealership to any other brand. The overhead on those palace's must be outrageous. It's no wonder they don't want to sell Buells - no profit in chrome do-dads. | ||
| Ratbuell |
At some shops, if they don't have your bike in their shop then they don't have your bike in the service queue. On one hand, that's understandable. However, if you brought it in for a recall and the kit is not there...it's "out of queue" while it's waiting on parts anyway, is it not? I don't know about most shops, but we don't disassemble a bike that we know is going to need a part ordered, and let it sit there unattended and open while the parts are shipped. Sometimes we find a surprise once we open 'er up...but if we *know* we don't have what we need to put it back together, we don't open it up until the parts arrive. Also, Bigeasy - your dealer may have been under the impression due to the first wave of recall kits going out un-requested that all the kits were shipping that way. If they read the letter on H-Dnet, they'd know it was only the first wave going out that way, to flood the country with kits to start with. Subsequent kits had to be ordered in accordance with every recall ever done in the past: 1. Get VIN 2. Verify applicable recall(s) 3. Order parts specifically for that VIN I'm glad BCS helped you out. Please keep us posted. | ||
| Stewadi |
Ratbuell, Sent you a PM. Thanks | ||
| Honu |
What are the negatives for a HD dealership to carry the Buell line??? Most that I have been in don't have any inventory, so not alot of investment just sitting around waiting on a sale. Do they have to pay a franchise fee to carry the Buell line or something like that??? | ||
| Gtmg |
Honu, The negatives are that it takes up space that you could be using for higher profit items. If you looked at it as Profit$/square ft/year I would guess the Buell area is lower than the rest of the store. Buell competes more with traditional motorcycles sales where discounting is done on almost every deal. In HD dealers for the last few years very few HD bikes had to be discounted to be sold and at one time demanded a premium over MSRP. The positive is that you attract buyers who would never go into an HD shop otherwise like me. I now really appreciate the HD bikes as well as the Buells. For long term viability it important to HD to expand their customer base and honestly the same goes for the local stores. I know no one wants to hear this but you could easily change dealer attitude and increase sales by changing the name to HD Sport or something and including the Vrod line with them. I know this doesn't appeal to many Buell riders because the consider themselves "different" but it would alleviate the problems that everyone on here complains about with the dealerships and low sales. The other thing I am going to say that is controversial is another reason that HD dealers don't support Buell. We don't buy products from them. We buy from people like Appleton who take sales away from the local dealers. Now if those sales had gone locally the dealer may say you know what...we have some activity here maybe we should increase our Buell marketing. No sales = no marketing and eventually no Buells. | ||
| Reepicheep |
With regards to Buell being unprofitable for a dealership and the big four being some sort of gravy train... My local dealer (F&S) was Harley, Buell, Kawasaki, and Suzuki. They built the big new shiny Harley shop, and in spite of the fact that they had the old standalone Suzuki / Kawasaki shop up and running already, they shut it down. They got out of the business. They had a fairly successful racing program with those import brands as well. They were probably the best known Kawi / Suzuki dealer in town, and the building had been there for a few decades, so I doubt there was anyone operating with a bigger profit margin then they were. They just walked away from the imports franchise. They still sell Buells though, and stock a decent selection of parts... FWIW. | ||
| Honu |
If it is a floor space issue, I wish they (HD Dealers) wood not drop the line completely, just order what a customer needs, parts, and/or provide service. And order a motorcyle if a customer wants. It just seems the dealers are bailing out way too fast, like others have said, even HD sales have slowed down. Diversification seems to be a prudent path to me. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Anyone who has worked on both Harleys and Buells will know that they are very different machines. The Buells, while being much better designed, are more sophisticated machines, with original designs, and service procedures that just don't carry over from Harleys. In addition, Harleys have changed very little over the years. All this makes life difficult for the service department which must train one or two technicians on what is essentially a different brand, stock different parts, for a product line that rarely composes as much as ten percent of sales, carries lower margins, and generates less after sale income. All of this combines to make Buell an unattractive business proposition for a Harley Dealer who has a very substantial investment in his operation. The solution? Sell Buells in multiline sport bike shops. Maybe.  | ||
| Daves |
"The other thing I am going to say that is controversial is another reason that HD dealers don't support Buell. We don't buy products from them. We buy from people like Appleton who take sales away from the local dealers. Now if those sales had gone locally the dealer may say you know what...we have some activity here maybe we should increase our Buell marketing. No sales = no marketing and eventually no Buells." GT, I disagree. Every Buell dealer had the same opportunity that I had when I began building my Buell business. The fact that they did not is no one's fault but their own. The same opportunity still exists, they just have to DO IT! Your theory is almost as bad as the old stand by line from dealers that "Buell just don't sell around here" The only reason Buells or Buell parts do not sell at ANY Buell dealership is because they are not doing it right. | ||
| Spiderman |
and to add to DaveS comment. Dave always said to us, support your local dealer. That was always the first thing out of his mouth! The main reason most people went to Dave was because we were so screwed over, hated or just plain ol' crap service at our local dealer. Then by focusing all our Buellitude twords one dealer, this would show the H-D upper crust what makes a GREAT Buell dealer! | ||
| Koz5150 |
Salesmen sell bikes and parts guys sell parts. In Appleton's case, Daves was doing both when it came to Buell related items. Because he knew the parts end better then any of the parts counter guys. The parts guys there still are not Buell knowledgeable. It's sad when you walk into the dealership and know more then the guy who is getting paid to know more then you. No Daves = no sales How else would you explain going from a two time award winning dealer to considering dropping the line? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
We have gone from selling 3 buells in an entire year, to having multiple weekends where we have sold 3 Buells in a two day period. Having the inventory is the key to selling the bikes. If the dealer doesnt have the faith to stock the bike, then they wont sell, and they will not be inclined to reorder more. The previous years it was an uphill battle to get the bikes, now we are pulling them from other dealers to meet our demand. These bikes sell, they perform great, they are addictive, they dont support the chrome addons and googays | ||
| Bads1 |
Dave had that edge for sure. He was a big Buell fan as well as doing it for a living. Now he is a big bow hunting fan and doing it for a living. Put the two together and you can't go wrong. | ||
| Hooper |
Here's a question some of you might be able to answer - goes back to Slaughter's post and GTMG's: so the young, sporty rider doesn't want to set foot in a H-D dealer because of all the big freaky guys and funny leather vests, but my H-D/Buell dealer (Battley) sells BMWs, Yamahas, and Ducatis too (and even some dirt bikes). Does the same argument work there? Are their Japanese/German/Italian bikes moving because those potential customers don't want to go to a Harley dealer? Not sure what you guys sell up in Frederick, Ratbuell, but I swear I need to get up there sometime! Really interesting thread. I just blew away my afternoon. | ||
| Swampy |
I have told this story many times, I have a multi line, YamaHondSuziKowaSkidoPolaris dealer less then 4 miles from me. I called the Skidoo 1-800 number once and asked where a dealer was and they said I was "In Luck" one only 4 miles from my home, I responded well thats funny every time I walked in to buy a Skidoo there was no one around to sell me one. I started getting calls from the Skidoo regional sales peoples asking questions. Ownership changed, a few sales peoples stayed, guess what, they still suck. The last time I went there, the GM was bending over backwards after a sales person insulted me when I was asking Un-Stupid questions. Its all about attitude, its not rocket science. I bend over backwards in my job trying to the best I can be, everyone I deal with for work has my cell phone and many have my home phone and know they can get ahold of me anytime, I just don't understand the "New Attitude" of its not my problem. Just do what it takes to fix the problem. Its all about what you want to do. About a local dealer.....um, I might as well be living in Nigeria. I don't have any business there, its just not practical for me to go to one, I just cannot see driving 2 hours or more just to order a part then drive two hours or more to pick it up if and when it is ordered and then arrives. Listen up: The INTERNET IS KING! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Water, electricity and people take the path of least resistance. | ||
| Chellem |
Despite how simple it seems, taking on a new line - especially one so completely different from H-D - requires a significant up-front investment, as well as ongoing expenses. You do have to invest in a chunky amount of inventory. Well, I guess you don't HAVE to, but if you're serious, you do. That ain't free. And it doesn't make money until you sell it - which brings up the training part someone mentioned. It's not just training the techs, although that is also quite pricey between airfare, hotel, incidental expenses and, oh yeah, the actual training, but training the Parts guys, and the Sales guys - Buell customers DEMAND knowledgable staff. While you can put an ad in the paper and hire people who more or less can speak with authority on H-D stuff, finding a knowledgable Buell guy is almost impossible. They must be built. And that's expensive. Plus, as you all have said so many times, people who like H-D's aren't necessarily that into the whole sport-bike thing. So how do you inspire the passion you seek in an employee who is a die-hard Harley guy? It's not easy. And there's the old sales per square foot argument that someone mentioned up above. It is true - a businessperson, classically trained, would probably NEVER actually recommend taking on Buell as a second line when the valuable real estate on your floor could be filled with Harleys. That's just the facts of the matter. Harleys sell more and have more profit. Nonetheless, we love Buells here, and we're lucky enough to have a bunch of employees who HAVE the passion, which makes all the difference in the world. You can just tell the difference when they're talking about the Buell product. And it's THAT passion that has to exist. All the other stuff aside, if you don't have employees who have passion, you aren't going to sell them. What Daves said is true, if you aren't selling Buells, it's because you're not doing it right. Sounds so simple, but it's really the hardest part of the whole deal. ->ChelleM | ||
| Spatten1 |
I read that domestic Harley sales are down 18% over the past two years. The HD dealer palaces will be hard to pay for soon enough, and they might have to change their mentality or go out of business. If Buell and the dealers can start acting as professional as Harley, I think the brand could really have legs and start competing well with the Japanese and Euro makes. Sending out models with problems to magazines, no service manuals, having to go to leather vested salesmen, ain't gonna help the brand to get to the next level. Gotta say though, in Denver I see XBs on the street all the time. Cool. | ||
| Milar |
I purchased 2 Buells from Dave when I lived in the midwest. In fact, I rode hundreds of miles out of my way to do so. Now I live in the southwest. The local Buell dealer has one leftover 2007 on the floor and could give a crap. I'll probably buy a new bike this fall. Should I buy another Buell? Or should I buy from the local Kawasaki dealer who is a real enthusiast? The dealer makes all the difference. Mike | ||
| Toona |
I have 3 Buell dealers, each over 100 miles from me. Ratbuell at HD of Frederick, MD is about 150 miles from me. "His" shop is the one that I go to for the demo rides, freebies and should I ever need a part, he is my first "go to guy". "His" dealership gets it. The Buells are up front and center, the have their own race team - that traveled all the way to Road America from MD to race over Homecoming w/e. I personally don't buy new motorcycles/cars/trucks anymore. If I did, his dealership would be the place where me and my money would part company. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Toona - thank you. It's always good to see you when you come by Hooper - you should stop in sometime and say hi. I work every weekend...agh, I have to go back tomorrow after 9 days off. This is gonna hurt....lol | ||
| Josh_ |
 I sold at ~75. | ||
| Jaimec |
Some one once told me that when Buells starting showing up in Harley showrooms, Harley salesmen had to learn a whole new skill: SELLING! They'd gotten far too complacent over the years with the sheep just lining up outside their doors willing to spend thousands over MSRP for a spot on a WAITING list (as opposed to an actual product) that they had no IDEA what to do with those strange looking bikes in the corner with the familiar-looking engine. The only "skill" they needed was the knowledge on how to fill the forms out properly. If someone wanted a Harley, then you weren't going to sell them anything BUT a Harley. However, when someone was interested in a Buell, they were likely ALSO looking at the bikes from Japan, Italy and Germany too. Since it was so much easier to make money fleecing sheep, the Buells just languished in the corner. Must've been an eye-opener when that first Buell customer looked the salesman in the eye and said: "$2,000 over MSRP?? You're on DRUGS. I'm buying a Honda" and stormed out of the dealership. That probably set the tone for all future Buell dealings right there. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I still haven't heard if the dealers make much (any?) money by selling buells. If you look at a comparison between a cityx ($8900 msrp) and an HD sportster ($8-9k msrp) look at what the manufacturing cost must be. With Buell's relatively low production numbers, I just don't see a lot of profit room for Buell, or the dealers. Another question. This is for our resident sales folk. When it comes to sale commission is it based on number of bikes sold, or is it based on the type of bike sold. IE. Do you get let say $100 for any bike, or would selling a Sportster bring in $25, and a Vrod brings in $200? For a non buell zealot, this could be a deciding factor on where you place your effort. | ||
| Diablobrian |
You hit it on the head with regards to not needing to sell Harley products and the Buells requiring actual effort on the part of the sales staff. The sad part is many dealerships go to great lengths to alienate what could be their greatest asset.....passionate, enthusiastic Buell owners! We are by far and large an un-tapped resource. I know that if I had reason to hang out at my local dealership I could boost their Buell sales to new heights by talking to the prospective customers. However, when I go there....oh say to look at the 1125r....I'm treated like I have a communicable disease by the sales staff. Not only that, the Buell merchandise (mostly women's apparel) has been relegated to the sale rack, it hasn't been marked down, that's just where they keep it now. It's funny, when you don't stock the stuff it doesn't sell, and when you WON'T sell it (big surprise) it doesn't sell. I can't imagine the way I'd react if I wasn't a Buell fan if I walked in to see a Buell and was treated this way. Actually yes I can....I'd be buying another make of bike and spreading news of how I was treated far and wide so my friends wouldn't have to endure the same treatment. Pretty much exactly what has happened at many dealerships. | ||
| Daves |
Who'd have thought Salespeople, selling. Hmmmm? I came to the HD sales world from the car business, where you had to sell and treat customers right to make a living. 100% commission, no sales, no pay. I was in the top 10% of Ford salespeople in the country and #1 at my dealership. When I started selling HDs in 1998 it was the highlight of the gravy train years. Sales meant "what color Fatboy do you want? It will be here in a year. I need a 1000.00 deposit. It will be 3000.00 over whatever the MSRP is. I'll call you when it is here." After about a year of this, I was bored out of my skull! This isn't sales, it is order taking. Anyone could do this. I was about to go do something else. I am a sales guy! Then, I met Erik Buell, at the 99 summer dealer meeting. I had never ridden a sportbike (unless you count my 900Z1 Kawasaki that I gave up when i bought my first HD in 1984) I didn't even like sportbikes. Erik was (and still is) a freak about his bikes. I checked them out in the Buell booth, waaaay in the back of the expo hall. I talked with Erik. About a month later Greg Heiclebeck (sorry for the spelling Greg) came to Waterloo. He was the Buell rep, back when they had Buell reps. We talked with him. It was decided that the dealership was going to add Buells and i was going to be in charge of them. At first I was like, well, ok, I guess. But I saw it as a challenge. Something that was lacking in my HD sales. So, me being Dave, threw myself headlong into it. I had to learn sportbike, I had to learn how to ride(really ride, not just cruise along), I had to buy a helmet! I found Badweb and ATC I started a BRAG club and invited other sportbike riders to ride with me. I noticed most Buell riders complained of the crappy treatment and service they got at their local dealers. At that time Modesto was the "go to" Buell dealer. I saw a need and did my best to fill it. If I saw an issue I made calls to the right people so it could get fixed. I called BS to the old sayings, you know the ones. In my mind, I didn't do anything special. I just did my job, the best I could. Like everyone should do at their jobs. Well, long story cut short cause I just worked a 14 hour day. The Buells that Erik was and is so passionate about got me hooked and hooked bad. Most of you know the "rest of the story". I no longer sell Buells but I still love the bikes and the people. Yep, I think I am hooked for life |
