| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
I like my custom Safari Arms 45. However a big heavy combat weapon is not something to just toss in a school book bag. If you cant shoot a silhouette from 20 yards than maybe you shouldnt be carrying. Target shooting under a calm controlled gun range is a LOT different than rapid fire at moving target under a stress level. With a junk m16a2 last time on the range I placed 10 for 10 in the center at 300 yards rapid fire with a magazine change. Then at 500 yards 7 out of 10. So I know how to shoot. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
ALL WE WANT 1S 5's and 4's WE DON'T WANT NO MAGGIE'S DRAWS | ||
| Ryker77 |
I'd agree. The USMC KD course doesn't use that scoring system. Hopefully with the new video type scoring system they'll be able to go more advanced. | ||
| Ratyson |
This discussion is much more tame than the one over on the subaru forum I frequent. Over there, there are several folks saying "OH MY GOD! GUNS ARE BAD! SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS! WE NEED TO GET RID OF THEM!!!" And of course you also have the folks who firmly believe that if just one person at VT was allowed to carry, the death toll may have been much much lower. And much internet arguing is ensuing. Over here: Much more intelligent conversation. I knew I liked this place better.. My heart goes out for the family and friends of the victims of this terrible tragedy... It was definitely a sad sad day. (Message edited by ratyson on April 18, 2007) | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
The creed of a United States Marine Maj. Gen. W. H. Rupertus, USMC This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My rifle, without me is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will... My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is hits that count. We will hit... My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, it strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights, and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will... Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace! | ||
| Jimidan |
Well, thank God it wasn't a terrorist! If I had been there, I simply would have pulled out my Glock 40 from my book bag, and placed two shots into the Korean scumbag (in a very tight group, because that is just the kind of guy I am). End of story. Well, not quite, as then I would have been arrested for carrying a concealed weapon into a gun free zone (even though I have a concealed permit). They would have confiscated my Glock, and fined me bigtime. Now, end of story. jimidan | ||
| Ryker77 |
If it had been a muslim.. He would have been labeled a terrorist. Then Bush would have cooked up some intel that he was from Iran. ---------- I wonder how much of this class (rich verse poor) hate will increase. As the rich get richer and the middle class income is stagnet. If people would only just focus on themselves... I'd guess that a poor college student who is working his but off to pay for everything would be fairly sick of the rich party kids with daddys credit cards. No excuse. He should have just went to a different college. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
There's no way on earth that once this event began it was stoppable from a law enforcement stand point. This guy was going to do what he was going to do no matter what. I've read that the U Police and local police failed to lock down the U after the first incident and that lead to the second. Wrong. They did the best with the info they had. By shutting down the university all they would have done is creat mass panic and could have made things worse. This guy was on the radar wayyy before he did this. Several U proffs saw that he was troubled and reported it, VaTech failed in doing anything with these warnings. Who's responsible? The police or the University? People will say that this guy was responsible, the guns were responsible. But remember this, the gunnman was mentally ill, unstable and nobody did anything to help him. A terrbile trajedy that was avoidable months/years before it happened. | ||
| Court |
United States Marines live by the Rifleman's Creed. I had the good fortune or having a perfect score on my long range 200M and 300M quals. I keep my targets here 35 years later. When the PMI asked me how I managed to put 10 shots through essentially the same hole. . I explained I'd been shot 3 times 18 months earlier and just imagined the son of a bitches face on that target looking back. . . in combat, in a "you or me". . . it's you. That has little to do with the instant tragedy. It's a terrible thing and trying to ascribe sole blame on a person or institution is second guessing. We had a similar thing happen on our campus Monday . . . a co-ed was forced into her apt, tortured and raped for 19 hours. It hurts. . I've always wanted to see campuses as a place of tranquility. There is a candlelight vigil tonight to mourn the victims in Virginia. I'll be there. Court  | ||
| Rainman |
Well, it's not entirely true that no one tried to help. He was reported to administrators after his creative writing teacher talked with him regarding some inappropiate comments and he wrote her long email justifying his actions. He was under a TDO, temporary detention order, for depression and was given anti-depressant medication which he may or may not have been taking at the time of the shooting. They tried to help. He just couldn't be or didn't want to be or something. Who knows what made him flip...he wasn't exactly poor and didn't have that many financial woes that other students didn't have, he just was weird. I think the problem was that administrators tried to help but students didn't. They just sort of mocked him. Who's laughing now? | ||
| Tommy_black_shark |
I'd guess that a poor college student who is working his but off to pay for everything would be fairly sick of the rich party kids with daddys credit cards. No excuse. He should have just went to a different college. So do we know now that the shooter was just a working class hero expressing his displeasure with the tax cuts for the rich that funded daddy's credit card? I thought he was just a psycho with a gun? I'll have to take your word for it that the murdered students were all rich party kids. I only have read details about one of the dead from Georgia. He was carrying a triple major with a 4.0 average, was a resident assistant in the dorm and a member of the university marching band. His parents were hardly wealthy and he was able to pay for college between his scholarship and the RA gig. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Not an expert. I only have limited bias info from the mass media. | ||
| Madduck |
The odds are very good that the depression medication he was on was the key factor in turning him for a nut to a dangerous psychotic. Some of the new stuff should not be used on people under 25 as it causes suicide and homicides. The use of these drugs needs constant intrusive supervision in a clinical setting but they are being prescribed like popcorn by family practice physicians and nurses. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Rainman...I also heard, through the media, that students were mocking him and actually betting on whether they could get him to talk. No excuase to snap, but probably another layer that built up in him. | ||
| Jayvee |
The news said he was wearing some kind of ammo vest or belt (reports vary.) I hope he doesn't turn out to have been an IPSC shooter. We run around shooting pistols at multiple torso-shaped targets as quickly as possible, for fun. A course-of-fire problem typically has 15 to 20 targets. See: http://home.columbus.rr.com/jmaass/stage.htm I live in CA, where the gun laws are pretty strict, from what I read, he didn't break any law obtaining the gun. Only when he took it on campus and started using it to kill people. How many of you ex-Marines, even without a gun, would have hid behind a desk, and waited your turn to be killed? Even while he stopped to reload... Apparently some of the students seem to have done something along those lines. The whole thing is hard to comprehend, in many ways. (Message edited by jayvee on April 18, 2007) | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
He should have went to Tom Cruise for help. A change in diet and some exercise would have fixed him right up. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Fight or flight. It would all depend on the situation. | ||
| Rainman |
I don't think the average 20-year-old has a lot of fight in them, especially the kind you're going to find with 4.0 gpas. Violence is frowned upon in academia and the current wisdom seems to be cooperate and hope to survive. I like to think, if it was obvious people were going to killed, I would have tried to do something, even if it got me killed in the process. If I'm lucky, I'll never have to find out. | ||
| Heads |
tougher gun control laws have to be passed...sooner the better.. | ||
| Rainman |
Just as an update, we're pretty comfortable that the kid went psycho. Some of his writing in creative classes reflected class conflicts and the rambling note mentioned some people with way more money than he had, but he wasn't working class as we might know it. Some of his roommates and kids in his dorm did harass him to get him to speak. Exactly what they said and did to try and get him to talk the kids wouldn't say so I'm sure it didn't help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Heads... yup. Clearly the 100 or so already existing gun control laws the guy violated when he bought his gun and then went on his shooting rampage were ineffective. I bet 101 laws would have done the trick though... (At least those same gun laws were, however, very effective at disarming his victims... otherwise, somebody on campus might have gotten hurt.) | ||
| Buellerandy |
I gotta vent- Personally, I'm not a criminal sympathizer at all. In the end, it doesn't come down to what they did or didn't do, it's a matter of right and wrong. There isn't a single person out there that can say he DIDN'T know right from wrong...the kid's in college! Therefore, there isn't any excuse on god's green earth to relieve him of his responsibility for his actions. Because its reponsibility/discipline that is being overlooked more and more in our country's societies. Everyone wants to blame everyone else for their problems. And if there isn't anyone else, then it's the "government." As far as being an "ex-Marine", once a Marine always a Marine, until you die, then you go to hell to regroup...so why re-enlist?:P I obviously wasn't there but to be hypothetical, I can guarantee that something very hard and heavy would've been breaking his fragile mortal body. Or I would've probably died trying... I'm not trying to offend anyone or piss anyone off. these are, once again, my .02 and my opinions. I do believe people deserve a second chance after a violent crime/felonious behavior. EVERYONE makes mistakes, but if they blow that chance, then burn'em. I don't have kids yet, so I can't understand what parents go through when this crap occurs, but this guy used up his 9 lives for a second chance. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
With a junk m16a2 last time on the range I placed 10 for 10 in the center at 300 yards rapid fire with a magazine change. Then at 500 yards 7 out of 10. So I know how to shoot. Target shooting under a calm controlled gun range is a LOT different than rapid fire at moving target under a stress level. Anyways my comments were about pistols and concealed carry. You are a marine and I admire your service. The fact remains however based on your previous comments about pistols being inaccurate and carrying a .22 for protection that the marines didnt learn you a few things about weapons in general. I would skip the gun bravado and just stick to blaming rich republicans for all the worlds problems.  | ||
| Indy_bueller |
tougher gun control laws have to be passed...sooner the better.. Heads: I really fail to see how that would have changed much. You will NEVER EVER be able to completely rid this country of guns. Ever. They'll be smuggled in, stolen from Reserve and National Guard Armories, and so forth. This kid would have got ahold of a gun somehow and did this anyway. But lets say he couldn't get a gun. He would have bought a sword on the internet, or made explosives, or maybe just ran over a bunch of students at a crosswalk in a car. The kid shooting all those people was a SYMPTOM of a larger problem. This guy was SERIOUSLY disturbed. They tried to get him help, true. But they didn't get him ENOUGH help. Things like this will continue to happen regardless of weather or not people are allowed to own guns. The real question here should be: "What are we doing as a country to identify people like this, and get them the help they need BEFORE they kill someone?" Doing ANYTHING else is like trying to plug a hole in a dam with your finger. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Very well put Mr. Indy_Bueller! | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
I have to disagree on the banning guns. It is easy to say ban guns from the comfort of suburbia or small town America. In the big city if someone is breaking into your house you call the law for clean up. If you wait on them you are in trouble. Response times in the 10's of minutes. Beyond that. He was a disturbed guy who should have been thrown out the school. I read in the news that he scared off 57 of 60 students in a creative writing class. They even posted a security guard near the classroom. He should have been thrown out.} | ||
| Blake |
I'd guess that a poor college student who is working his but off to pay for everything would be fairly sick of the rich party kids with daddy's credit cards. That's would be a very lame attitude to have, and not at all healthy. I experienced that scenario myself and never felt any serious resentment at all towards the upper-class types when I was attending SMU in Dallas. They had to study just as dilligently as I did to make the grade. You didn't need to be well-off to be partying all the time, you just needed to be a business school major.  Truthfully, some of my close friends in college, who remain very good friends to this day, fit that description. One's a doctor in Kentucky who races SCCA, another is a lawyer turned securities manager in Connecticut, and another is heavy duty into capital and consulting in Denver, CO., another is into banking, oil and gas right here in Texas. At the time, I felt gratified to be able to put myself through school at a high caliber (no pun intended) private university. It was a wonderful experience. | ||
| Scottykrein |
http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/60509/ | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
That took awhile to watch, but I have always liked Penn & Teller. I don't always agree with them but they don't sugar coat anything. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Have you watched the raw video that he sent to the news........Wow. Creepy. |
