| Author | Message | ||
     Fl_billy |
Went down today pretty hard. This is my second wreck, the first happened on my SV1KS when a Ford Sportrac ran me over while I was making a right turn into a gas station. Net result, 1 cracked shoulder and lots of bumps and bruises. Ended up with $25k in my pocket for that one. Today, I was riding down behind a car in a 40mph zone (not speeding and with plenty of space between my and the car) when all of a sudden, it registers in my brain, that the gap is closing fast between me and the car. By the time I realized the car was coming to a stop (NO brake lights or signal!!) It was too late for me to brake hard enough to come to a stop. So I tried to swerve to the right, but clipped the back right of the car which in turn sent the bike into an immediate tankslapper that pitched me off superman-style. I landed on my head and left side and came away with some rash on my left hip, forearm and knee as well as a badly bruised left pinky. Overall, very lucky. My KBC helmet saved my noggin and my Tour Master leather jacket saved my arm. I still got some nasty rash right through the jacket and a long-sleeved shirt. My Icon gloves did a good job of protecting my hands and the knuckle armor has some pretty good chunks taken out of it. Overall I'm fine, only because of my gear. The bike came through pretty good too and the left frame puck did it's job. The other damage is all cosmetic and includes the shifter peg (nice Crossroads one from Al at American Sport Bike), front turn signal (ripped off) some minor scratches to the plastic on the upper and tail, scratches to the clutch lever and swingarm (I KNEW I should have gotten the swingarm sliders and not taken off the passenger pegs!). Not sure what my streetriding future will be, but I am leaning strongly towards hanging it up. At 37 and being a husband and father, there are too many people counting on me to be there. I can't help but believe that this is another (maybe final) "warning shot over the bow"...... Oh yeah to top it all off, the characters in the car took off. A very nice young lady chased them into the neighborhood they turned into, but when she finally caught up to them, the car was in a driveway and one of these kids was standing there, staring her down and, as she put it, put his hand in his jacket pocket like he was going to pull a gun. They were obviously up to no good because, legally, I was at fault for running into them. Cops couldn't track them down either. Anyway, the moral of this story kids is buy good gear and wear it. You never when it's your turn....... Billy | ||
| Olinxb12r |
Did she get a plate number for you? I would think that since he didn't have any brake lights it would be his fault. Don't just let it go to easily. Glad to here you are okay. | ||
| Fl_billy |
No, she wasn't sticking around to get a plate number with the possibility of someone pulling a gun. Even when I was talking to the cops (both bike cops BTW) they said legally I was at fault since I hit them. They both understood the circumstances and were very cool about the whole thing, but the law is the law and if they would have stopped, I probably would have been cited for careless driving. Go figure...... | ||
| Truk |
Glad to hear all is well. I agree with Olinxb12r, no lights and leaving the scene....sounds like responsibility and trouble for him to me too. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Glad you are o.k.! I love winter riding as I'm always all geared up. | ||
| Daves |
Glad you are ok. | ||
| Fcbuell |
Glad you are OK. But seriously, if no brake lights and no signals, the law is its their fault. I'd fight that one. | ||
| Kdan |
If you hit someone in the rear, you did it, regardless of circumstances. The lawyers make the laws, dontcha know? Glad you're ok, but don't give up something you enjoy because of a few minor setbacks. I'm 43 and have been down a few times, some very seriously. I don't believe in warnings or second chances or any of that, if it's important to you keep riding, otherwise you will begrudge those you stopped riding for. Been there, done that too. That's my 2 cents anyway. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Best thing about cold weather is that I don't have to watch these idiots running around in a brain bucket, tank top, shorts and flip-flops on their bike. I know it's their choice, just makes me sick thinking about the potential carnage. | ||
| Xb9ser |
I'm glad your ok.But don't stop rideing it was't your time.The good Lord will take you when he wants not before.3 years ago I had 2 incidences that could have been fatel. The first was a house fire I had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on my back and left arm. About 3mo. later I was getting streetlegal land speed car ready for a race and was driveing down the road about 130 mph went home. got back in the car and my steering shaft broke at the end of my driveway. I'm a firm belever that when its your time you get to meet your maker not before. Glad agine your ok | ||
| U4euh |
Good ending, thread title scared me. Glad to hear you are relatively ok. | ||
| Socalbueller |
Glad to hear you are OK. Here in Los Angeles 4-5 times a week I am behind somebody without functional brake lights and it really pisses me off. I have tried informing driver but they either don't care or don't understand what I am saying. | ||
| Glitch |
Glad you're OK. I was at fault for running into them. Up until they left the scene of the accident. | ||
| Typeone |
That's real assuring to hear from a COP... "yeah, their vehicle wasn't in legal spec AND they fled the scene of an accident but um, you shouldn't have run into them" I've had Policemen tell me lies before (imagine that!) regarding law, I'd look into it. Sounds like you even know where the fools live! The cops didn't want to talk or see their vehicle at all? WTF is that about? Especially hearing the story continue with the confrontation of another trying to help you out! No wonder I left that POS state years ago. BTW, very glad to hear you're OK! | ||
| Keys |
- I read somewhere that if you ride with one finger on the front brake it can speed up your reaction time by a full second in emergencies. So I've trained myself to do that and got some sticky foam grips to make it all work without fatigue. Don't think that would have helped in your situation and glad your OK. It just brought that to mind. It's impossible to know you need to stop if there are no brake lights! I'm really glad to hear the Icon gloves saved your knuckles. I've got the same pair. I lost my knuckles and a tendon in a tank slapper once. So gears is good ! | ||
| Eboos |
A few months ago, I had a near miss that resulted in a tank slapper (scary feeling). I managed to stay upright, but I tweaked my bad knee really bad. I did have pretty good gear on at the time aside from the jeans that I knew would be thrashed the moment I hit the ground. Fortunatly, I didn't have to put my gear to the test that day. Glad to hear that you are ok. | ||
| Rocket_fuell |
I am a police officer in Mississippi and I can tell you that as far as wreck reports are concerned that an officer doesn't make a determination of fault. An officer is required to report the facts of the case and issue citations where they apply I.E. faulty equipment that doesn't work. The statements from the drivers involved and the analysis of the scene is all that's reported. The insurance companies and the state authority will make a finding of fault which is the basis for legal arguments in court. Insurance companies will fight it out between themselves if two are involved. If you are the only person who has insurance in the accident then your insurance is going to pay and your rates will probably go up regardless of fault. Just a little note from the cops corner | ||
| Keys |
Hi Riley *Rocket Fuel* This relates to accidents so I have a question for you. I've had a number of friends wreck at intersections from cars making left hand turns coming at them. SO I've been thinking of ways to increase my visibility on my bike. I'm going to add some switches and connections to give myself hazzard lights with all 4 blinkers flashing and another switch to also incorporate a headlight in the flashing. What are the rules in your state about hazzard lights and flashing headlights? just curious - thanks! | ||
| Rocket_fuell |
Hey Keys, I can only speak for MS but the only regs I know of for lights on vehicles have to do with the color of the lights and the height off the ground. The color being amber/yellow, red and white i.e. brakes, turn signals, headlights, reverse lights, and tag markers. You can't have other colors like blue(haha), green, pink, orange, ect. The law is written around what you need to properly mark,signal, and identify a vehicle. Also where the lights are to be positioned is regulated. I wouln't do anything except maybe try led lights and more reflective clothing or decals. Don't do anything that could be considered distracting to other motorist because you could be cited for improper equipment or if someone has a wreck involving you and some illegal lights you are open to a big civil lawsuit. If you need specific codes I will try and find them or you can probably do a lexis-nexus search for your state on-line and find the traffic codes. Hope this helps. Riley | ||
| Angelwild327 |
Keys, get a headlamp modulator, to be used with your hi-beams, IN THE DAYTIME..they are legal in all 50 states. They make the headlight pulsate, very quickly.. not a hard on and off like some people might think..so it's eye catching, somewhat annoying, yes..but who cares if they see you and stop | ||
| Rocket_fuell |
Just make sure they don't make the headlights do a "wig-wag" function. This is specifically illegal in MS. Only emergency vehicles can have wig-wags or alternating headlights "in MS of course". | ||
| Gotmine |
yep, two days ago I was taking some back-roads home and had a car pull out in front of my on a pretty extreme curve. only thing to do to avoid the car was semi-straight'n up the bike, grab the brakes and head for the shoulder(had a car to my left so that wasn't an option. plus they just happened to be slowing down at about the same time i was instead of keeping speed and getting out of my way!!). only problem was that the shoulder was divided from the road by a pretty good strip of wet grass!! as soon as the front tire touched the grass the bike just continued to lay over. hit the ground at about 45-50 mph and i was fully geared. besides the $150 worth of parts for the bike all i need is a new helmet and gloves. the shoulder is tweeked pretty good, but nothing that isn't fixable. bike still looks great minus a left hand grip, blinker, oil cooler bracket, and shifter assembly. now i'm just crossing my fingers that the actual shifter arm (not the foot lever) didn't jam up in the trans causing more damage. guess i'll find out when the shoulder heals up enough to start repairing the bike!! definately wear ALL gear at all times. i came out basically unscaved, but if i didn't have that helmet on it would have gouged about a 6 inches deep out of my head!! definately lucky | ||
| Fl_billy |
Hey Gotmine, glad to hear you came out of yours ok too. Never any fun when it happens. Just wanted to mention that today I took off the left (damaged) frame puck and found a big dent in the frame. Does anyone know if the insurance companies will typically total it with frame damage? I wasn't even going to call the insurance company, but now I may just have to. Billy | ||
| Perry |
The frame costs *around* 1100 bucks plus labor to install it, and takes a LONNNGGG time to order (since it has to have the VIN # stamped in). I went down on my '05 bike and had the same dented frame problem. They did not total the bike, but the repairs were nearly $6K !!  | ||
| Gotmine |
if yours is an '04 than it would more than likely be totaled. h-d dealerships will tell you that you need a new frame. so the cost of the new frame (close to 2 grand if i recall correctly) plus the cost of labor to have the bike completely torn down and rebuilt will usually cost as much or more than what the insur. company wants to give you for your bike. if they do total it you can buy it back as salvage or rebuildable and score a frame off of ebay or something for less than a grand (for the frame). i'm not sure how much the insur. company would want for your bike. hope this helps! | ||
| Buellshyter |
In Maryland, they have contributory negligence | ||
| Court |
>>>What are the rules in your state about hazzard lights and flashing headlights? Headlight modulators are LEGAL on motorcycles as a result of FEDERAL law. That trumps state law and I used to always carry a copy of the Federal DOT letter of interpretation under the seat. Be seen. | ||
| Keys |
Hazzerd Lights. One wire - one switch - 15minutes and five bucks - being seen.. priceless (since I'm no electric expert and don't want to lead anyone wrong, please don't ask how it was done) | ||
| Keys |
- -  | ||
| Keys |
Interesting article I found: "After detailed investigations of 900 motorcycle accidents in Los Angeles, the Hurt study (formally titled "Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures") reported that the average time from the event that starts the collision sequence (such as a car beginning a turn across a motorcycle's path) to the actual impact was 1.9 seconds. A nearly identical research project just finished in Thailand reported the time at 2.0 seconds. In both studies, three-fourths of riders had less than 3.0 seconds between the start of the accident sequence and the crash. And keep in mind that riders don't always detect a problem the instant it begins. It may take anywhere from a quarter-second to a couple of seconds before something attracts the rider's attention. Once the rider's attention is caught, reaction time begins. Most human-factors experts put average reaction time to traffic hazards at about 1.0 to 2.0 seconds, averaging around 1.5 seconds. If you swerve, add another half-second for the time delay due to countersteering and developing the correct lean angle before your motorcycle begins to head in the desired direction. Those delays leave little or no time for evasive action to succeed. About 30 percent of riders in the Hurt study took no evasive action at all, often because there was too little time. Even highly skilled braking usually won't do that much to delay your arrival at the crunch point. Here's an example: Let's say you're going down the boulevard at the 35-mph speed limit when Joe Numbnuts turns left across your path. With reaction time and all, you've got one second left, so you do a highly skilled stoppie, bringing your speed down to 15 mph in that second. Your average speed during that one second was 25 mph, and you braked for 37 feet. If you hadn't braked at all, you would have covered that 37 feet in 0.72 seconds. So your highly skilled stoppie and nerves of steel delayed your arrival at the crunch point by about a quarter of a second compared to doing nothing at all. Is that enough time for Joe to clear his big SUV out of your way? Usually not. And few riders have as much as 37 feet in which to brake. Even worse, when faced with death or a world of pain seconds away, most riders do a miserable job of braking and swerving. The Hurt Report found that riders with formal training (mostly California Highway Patrol and LAPD motorcycle officers, who had very demanding training and tons of time in the saddle) were no more likely to use the front brake than Melvin who learned to ride from his Uncle Clem. Or taught himself. Nor were trained riders less likely to slide out or highside when trying to avoid a crash. The point: No matter how good you think you are, don't count on overcoming the Pucker Factor when you're caught by surprise and think you're about to meet your Maker. Instead of thinking you're going to save yourself with your lightning-fast reflexes and well-honed skills, you'll probably avoid a lot more trouble by working to prevent the situations where you have to rely on those skills. 1) Do all you can to make it easy for car drivers to see you. Probably 90 to 95 percent of car drivers who screw up say they never saw the motorcycle. Car drivers don't want to hit you. Honest. But some of them need extra help to know you're there. Do all you can to make it easier for them to see you. Use your high beam during the day. High beam is more conspicuous than low beam. Trading that cool-looking black leather jacket for something bright wouldn't hurt, either. (The only intentional crashes we ever saw in the Hurt study were marital disputes on wheels, with one spouse on the motorcycle and one in the car. You figure the rest.) 2) Freeways are good; surface streets are bad. Areas around shopping districts are the worst. Limited-access roadways such as freeways are good because car drivers can't turn across your right-of-way, so use freeways as much as you can. 3) In busy urban traffic, stay in the mix with the cars. Not out ahead of them; not behind. When you go through intersections where cross-traffic wants to use the pavement you own, stay right next to a car's front fender so you're not in the driver's blind spot and use the car as a shield. This is especially true at night because it's even harder for car drivers to distinguish a motorcycle from nearby traffic. Many riders who get picked off are the ones 30 yards ahead of a big clot of cars, or 20 yards behind. 4) Move away from potential hazards. If you're alone when you come up to an intersection where a car is waiting to cross your path, the more lateral distance you put between your path and the other guy's starting point the better. For example, if you're nearing an intersection where a car coming from the opposite direction can turn across your path, move to a lane closer to the curb. It'll make it easier for the car driver to see you, and give you more time to react, which is probably even more important than skilled braking. 5) Never assume the other guy has seen you. Keep your eye on a vehicle that's positioned where it could violate your right-of-way. When you've decided the other driver has seen you and you start looking farther down the road, that's the moment he'll choose to turn. 6) Take it easy when you're out carving canyons. As you approach a turn, pick out which rocks and trees look good to hit, because you don't want to hit the unfriendly ones (which, actually, are all of them). If you need a little extra time to run through this mental drill, let off the gas. And remember that if you hit a post-and-rail barrier, which is used to decorate the outside of a lot of curves, it will probably break every bone in your body. 7) No booze before riding. None. Ever. Your risk of causing your own crash skyrockets when you drink and ride. Riders with more than one beer in their systems are about 40 times as likely to crash as sober riders. And a drinker's favorite way to crash is by running off the road, which has a higher fatality rate than any motorcycle-car crash except head-ons because there are so many rigid fixed objects waiting to, uh, welcome you. Trees, fire hydrants, parked cars, culverts, the list goes on and on. 8) Split lanes on the freeway. It's safer than trusting the guy behind you not to rear-end you. In the Hurt study, more riders on the freeway got nailed from behind while staying in their lane than riders who crashed while lane-splitting. But don't go too much faster than the traffic flow and be really careful when coming up to a car with an open space in the lane next to it, especially if the lane with the space is moving faster than the one with the car. 9) Be patient with lost and distracted drivers. In residential neighborhoods, you should understand that the idiot in the car in front of you, the one who's poking along at 15 mph, is looking for an address. Cool your jets and hold back, because the second you try to pass him, he's gonna turn across your path into a driveway. The five or 10 seconds you lose waiting for this car to get out of your way is a lot less than the time you'll lose waiting for the cast to come off your leg. 10) Don't lay it down. You lose only about 8-10 mph every second you spend sliding on the ground while giving away your perfectly good skin. If you do a good job using both brakes, you can lose 15-20 mph every second you brake and save on band-aids, too. About the only time to put yourself down on the pavement is if you're on an elevated curve (like a freeway interchange) and you're about to hit the low outside wall. The wall is usually high enough to save your motorcycle but not high enough to keep you from flying off into the wild blue yonder. I've never seen a rider survive that fall. The government ought to raise those concrete retaining walls to at least chest-high. 11) A loud exhaust is not safer. By the time you're close enough for a car driver to hear you, he's already in your path. In fact, you run the risk that the driver will be so alarmed he'll stop dead in your path. On the other hand, loud exhausts sure work wonders for pissing off the people behind you and making 'em hate motorcyclists. If you're serious about staying out of an accident, make yourself seen, not heard. If you just gotta have a loud exhaust, find another excuse for it." | ||
| Kdan |
Keys, thank you for that. Additionally, everyone should take the advanced MSF class. There's nothing wrong with taking it every year either. I try to get it early in the spring to remind myself of all the stuff you really need to remember when riding. I know some people that have been scared away from riding after taking the class. They probably shouldn't have been riding anyway. | ||
| Keys |
Billy, It's been a bit since you started this post and I just wanted to offer my hopes that the healing is going well. Thanks back Kdan. I would never qualify as a safety expert or have anyone seek my advise on that subject. I do enough bone-headed things and my general lack of restraint is enough to be banned from that position. At the same time I always listen to any experience that is shared with me (accident or otherwise) and try to learn from it. I never let myself off the hook by saying "I'd never let myself get into that situation" or "Inexperienced rider." Those judgments just never have any bearing on your own risk. Not sure what to learn from Billy's story (when you're not given any odds, maybe a solution is not to be had) but the following are my creative ideas in general. 1. Always ride with one finger on the brake (discussed above) 2. Always look both ways before going through an intersection even when going through a green. 3. Look both ways before you go when you DO get your green light. 4. When I see someone waiting for me to pass to get onto the road I'm on, I'll let off the gas. I know they get pissed because I'm "slowing them down" but at least they haven't forgotten that I'm there. Which happens alot even after eye contact. And if they still pull out in front of me I'm going slower. 5. Liberal use of the horn. Every blind intersection and blind driveway gets one from me. And sometimes for no reason I give the cars around me a few blips. Pulls em out of their daze. And pissed means they remember I'm there. 6. When I'm sitting at a stoplight I try to get as close to a white line between the lanes as I can. I figure if a rear end happens I'll be deflected or missed rather than hit. 7. Sometimes I think an arm signal (in addition to my turn signal) helps people notice what I'm about to do. Especially for right hand turns. If it's safe to take a hand off the bars of course. again these aren't endorsed and I'm sure anyone would use their judgment before useing any of my ideas. anyone else got some tricks??? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Fl_Billy, If you give up doing something you love (motorcycling) because of what some idiot might do where does it end? There will always be idiots threatening your safety no matter what you do. You can't let those fools have control of your life. Every day of your life can be boiled down to a question of risk management. Is the risk worth the reward is the basis for every logical decision you make. Emotional decisions are an entirely different animal, and this is probably not the appropriate forum to analyze those.  Keep riding |
