| Author | Message | ||
     Josh_ |
2005 Yamaha FJR1300 First 7 days, first 1100 miles, time to write a review. I came to the FJR from 99 Buell S3T that I put 46,000 miles on. I was looking for a new toy with more power and got the FJR. I ran the S3T as a commuter, back-road burner and tourer (2-up 947mi day was the max), plus I ran the 1/4mi a couple times at Gateway (12.24@111) and did 4 sessions on Road America with CLASS. I sold the S3 and an S1WL (owned for 2 years, 3000miles). Also own a 91 RS1200 and 00 Blast to round out the Buell collection. Previous bikes were a 92 Hugger 883 and a 96 Hugger 883/1200. On the FJR so far I've done commuting, limited touring and a back road session with the HSTA guys. The FJR is my first import vehicle other than a brief fling with a VW van in high school and the first inline4 I’ve ever ridden. Price (wash) The S3T with dual bags, Nuclear Blue frame and PM wheels was $12,700 with a 1 yr warranty. Performance mods set me back about $1500. I also added an adjustable brake lever and an aftermarket windshield. The FJR was $12500 with the top box and 4year extended warranty. Ordering (Buell) I placed my order for the Buell with I think a $200 deposit the 3rd week of December 98. The dealer said they had a bike coming in at the end of January in a different color (yellow) and tried to change to my choice (silver) on the incoming bike but it arrived in yellow. They swapped body work with another new silver S3 and I picked it up the first week of February between snow storms. I placed my order for the FJR along with $500 on March 18 and was promised September. I received it Oct 12. The dealer first knew it was arriving on Oct 5. I prefer Buell's order system with bikes on the floor but custom orders available. I really don't see myself waiting 7 months for a bike again. Color (Buell) The 99 S3 had 4 frame colors, 2 wheel choices (matching frame color or polished PM wheels) and 9 body colors plus standard or Touring configurations. (Supposedly you could also mix and match the parts of the touring kit but I don't know anyone who did) The FJR had no choices. (I do like the blue tho) Accessories (Buell) The FJR top box is nice but the Buell had a ton of accessories available. Dealerships (Yamaha) My bad experiences with local Buell dealers won't even fit here. I was very happy to note that there seem to be three times as many Yamaha dealers within a hundred miles and that doesn't count my purchasing dealer (Lemond's) 133 miles away who have been great. Bodywork (Yamaha) The Buell didn't really have enough bodywork to comment on tho I will mention the lowers both had problems and Buell later upgraded the design of the body panel and mount of the right lower. The FJR does a much better job of protecting from the elements and gives lots of places to install toys, I already have 2 HeatTrollers and 2 Powerlets installed. The FJR does take longer to wash, but with use the black Buell motor tends to gray from the burned on dirt and dust. The FJR should look better longer. Luggage (Yamaha) I liked the Buells choice of bag thicknesses and the Chase Harper fitted liners are far superior to the FJR's soft ones. However, the FJR's bags are a much better design. The integrated handles are great, as is the always-locked feature. The FJR also looks much cleaner with the bags removed. Under seat storage is a wash. The Buell had more fairing storage, but I prefer the locking waterproof "glove box" even tho it's smaller. The Yamaha's matching top box is also a really nice option. Performance (Yamaha) The S3T made some nice power down low peaking at 95HP at 6700RPM. The FJR isn't noticeably different between 2500 and 6000 but of course takes off from there. On/off throttle transitions were better on the S3. I prefer the cable clutch on the Buell, it just seems to feel better, plus it was somewhat adjustable. The FJR's hydraulic clutch feels like pushing a button- no tactile feedback. It has an adjustable clutch lever but only 4 and 5 seem to work, the others do not allow enough clutch movement to smoothly shift. Handling (Yamaha) I ran Metzeler Z4s on the S3, the same tires the FJR came with so that's a wash. You only notice the FJR's extra 80lbs when you are making fast hard transitions. The S3T ran a Showa inverted front fork and the single piston disk to keep the weight down. However the FJR feels better in most situations. The only real difference is layed over hard in a corner, the S3 would respond to sharp bumps better. But riding a straight bumpy road at any speed the FJR's suspension works and feels better. I'm running the FJR with the rear suspension on "hard" and I'm curious how it will ride with a passenger. The S3T had full preload adjustability plus rebound an compression on the rear and I was able to keep it set to exactly what I needed.. Brakes (wash) The Buell had a larger single rotor with a 6 piston caliper The FJR runs two smaller rotors with 4 piston calipers. Both stop very well but the Buell felt better, perhaps due to the stock steel braided brake line. I have not had the FJR on a track yet and I'm interested to see how the dual brakes handle the heat buildup. Mileage (Buell) Buell, 50MPG Yamaha 40MPG Ergonomics (Buell) The S3 was pretty much perfect. I did add ProGrip Gel grips and a ThrottleMeister for convenience. The FJR on the other hand is not. My hands and wrist are not in vertical or horizontal alignment, my knees are bent too much and the seat is pretty bad. This on top of bad vibrations at cruising speeds (4600-5400) makes it a pretty competent torture device. My hands are numb after 20minutes and the rest soon follows. I did 700miles last weekend and my hands reminded me all day Monday. I've added ThrottleMeister Heavy and touring grips to no avail. I'm having a throttle sync done again (this time the “4k sync”) to try to smooth out the vibrations. Then I'll look at replacing the seat and adding highway pegs and add a PowerCommander. It seems excessive vibrations are common on the FJR as the FJR forums have quite a few posts about it. I also test rode an 04 that vibrated badly about 4600RPM Passenger (Yamaha) She hasn't had a change to ride yet, but I'll bet she loves the better protection and will really appreciate the backrest on the top box. Reliability (inconclusive) Had no real issues other than clogged injectors on the S3. Summary All in all I'd say the FJR is a great replacement for the S3 but I won't be completely happy until the excessive vibrations are gone and I sort out the ergonomics. Accessories installed on the FJR: HeatTrollers Great additions when you run heated accessories DualStar grips Get warm but not hot. Installed easy and look good, but I think I need to check my wiring. Powerlet Wonderful devices, everyone needs a few. TankSlapper Total Protection Kit. waste of money. Very very very hard to get right. Save your money and find a local shop that specializes in plastic covering and get them to do an install. I will probably pull off most of the panels and stick with a normal tank protector and CeeBailey’s headlight guards. Escort 8500 Nice but not loud enough for a motorcycle. I’ve got MarcParnes.com LEDs on order. Mokos Very nice addition even if you don't plan on dropping it. Cox Racing radiator guard easy to install, looks great Vendors: Great, fast, good response: WildHair, Powerlet (Collet), Warmnsafe (heattroller), dualstar, Escort, bikejohnny, MarcParnes.com, Summit Racing, ProGrips, painlessperformance.com Not so great: CA Sport Touring Low prices means no customer service. Does not return phone calls or emails but fills in stock orders promptly Does not charge credit cards before shipment, does not inform when an item is back ordered. Up in the air: fjrgoodies will update if my order ever arrives | ||
| Blake |
Interesting. One comment... Sounds like you confuse/merge "handling" with "ride". Sounds like the Buell handled better while the FJ rides better, as would be expected. Would be interesting to hear a comparison in the area of "maintenance" too. And of course "sound" and "appearance."  Don't forget the art of the motorcycle. Cheers, | ||
| Court |
Josh: I am dissappointed to see you, of all people, consume bandwidth by writing a concise, readable intersting article about motorcycles. If you don't have any smarty pants remarks about something, the upcoming election or my personality quirks, take your moto-review to a politics discussion board. Seriously...well written and a good read. I'll be eager to hear how "life with" goes. Thanks, Court | ||
| Darthane |
Ahh...finally. I'm really interested as to whether you get the vibration problem solved, Josh. I'm still thinking the FJR will be my next bike. I'm not sure how old you are, but I wonder if the ergos would bother me as much as you (my current bike is a XB9R and I find it very comfy for long or short rides). No offense intended, but most of the guys around here are older than me and just don't -=ahem=- 'bend' as well anymore.  Keep us updated! | ||
| Phillyblast |
Josh is over the "don't trust anyone over . . ." cut-off, but not by much. Nice writeup. What's "standover height" like on the FJR? I'm not short, but my legs are be careful Blake'll change your name if you keep writing about the FJR | ||
| Josh_ |
Handling part2: The S3 and FJR handle surprisingly similar. Enough so that at 300miles I had a 1/4" chicken strip on the left side of the rear tire and a 1/8" on the right. I'm far more comfortable on this that I was on my S1WL that had rear sets and clip ons. The Buell claims mass-centralization and has the shock and muffler under the bike. The FJR has the mufflers stuck out back and a conventional shock ... and a much lower center of gravity. The FJR is easier to move around at low speeds and that lower cg probably makes up for the extra weight when in the twisties. | ||
| Tripp |
josh, would you have bought a 2005 thunderbolt if it was available? | ||
| Josh_ |
>Sounds like you confuse/merge "handling" with "ride". No I just didn't break it out. The FJR rides much better. Handling is about the same but I'll need more twisty seat time (tho a real comparison would have me back on the S3). The S3T did occasionally worry me about how fast it would turn in (the S1 kept scaring the •••• out of me). The FJR may be a "slower" bike to handle which may be why I'm faster. I bet riding both would have made me much better on the S3. >Would be interesting to hear a comparison in the area of "maintenance" too This damn Yamaha has 4 (count 'em 4!) throttle bodies to keep insynch. That's the same # of carbs/bodies in my garage when it was all Buells. Valve check at 26000mi, no yearly rocker box gasket replacement. I figure it's a wash. Wait what's that about radiator flush? >And of course "sound" and "appearance." I don't even know where to begin with this so I didn't. No one will look twice at the FJR but it's like the spaceship I read about in all my sci-fi novels. The S3 was this curvy muscle bike that sounded as good as it looks. What looks better a Shelby Cobra or a Lotus Elise. I'll take one of each please. Turn down the idle on the FJR and park it and a stock S3 (ie stock exhaust) next to each other and I bet they won't sound that different. The FJR at 90 with the windshield up and you tucked behind it is bizzarely quiet and disconcerting when you're used to a race kit. >I'm not sure how old you are, 31. The RS is more extreme .. and more comfortable. The S3 sat *almost* the same. I think the pegs need to be lower and rearward (or the seat higher) and the bars need more of an angle out and higher relative to the seat. The highway pegs available are trick and cheap. The vibrations may be causing all my difficulties except for the poor stock seat. Rick Mayer here I come. Seat height and width are about the same, the FJR may be a hair higher. I tippie-toe both bikes but the FJR is a tad harder to back up when in the saddle. (Message edited by josh_ on October 20, 2004) | ||
| Josh_ |
>would you have bought a 2005 thunderbolt if it was available? Ah, the $64k question. If the 05 S3T had a 12R motor in it and the bags had evolved (ie integrated handles) it would have been very close. If I had experienced the vibrations of the FJR and had an 05 S3 available I may have gone that way. But, among other things I was looking for "change" and I've never ridden an inline 4 before or any Japanese vehicle. Harder question would be when I've got 50kmi on this bike would I buy an evolved Buell tourer or another FJR. I don't know. | ||
| Tripper |
Yearly rocker box gaskets???? 98 S1 - 39,000 miles - never replaced a rocker gasket. though there is that pesky weeping from the front seam when the engine is spun at 4K for extended periods... | ||
| Josh_ |
...and with the upgraded gaskets they should never leak more than once. But my S3 leaked within 6mo of buying it and back in 99/00 that was one of the main topics of conversation here. I actually did several rockerbox gasket replacements incl assisting on one at Thunder in the Mountains in 01. But what's a review without a little exaggeration. | ||
| Tripper |
True enough on the exageration. The most pleasant suprise I learned when I moved from inline 4's to the Buell was the lack of the hand numbing vibration you discussed (of course when you put around below 3K on the Buell your ••• will turn to liquid...). I am dissapointed (but not suprised) that Yamaha was not able to eliminate that on a sport-touring bike. What fun is a long ride if your numbing? I doubt synching the carbs would fix such a problem, this is usually determined by the basic architecture of the reciprocating components. Is John experiencing similar vibrations? Still, it's a beautiful machine. p.s. profile update? need pics (Message edited by tripper on October 20, 2004) | ||
| Josh_ |
>The most pleasant suprise *now* you tell me. I'm waiting for John to chime in here. The FJR lists seem to think a "4000RPM" throttle body sync is the cure, but if not the PowerCommander fixes it. I have a PC at home and it's getting the sync today (hopefully - the mechanic went home sick yesterday and I have not called them today). The synch is being done at my local shop not a dealer. Don't know if a dealer would balk at a non-yamaha procedure, plus I haven't established a good local dealer yet. The guys I bought it from are nice, but I knew when I ordered they are primarly a dirt shop (dirtbike and 4 wheelers). ccrider (ST1300), Mark (FJR) and myself probably accounted for all of their SportTouring sales for the year. I'll go their for routine maint but I don't know how comfortable they would be doing fancier stuff. Coming home from the HSTA ride on Sunday I was passed by a Nissan 350Z doing about 95. I trailed him for a little while until he noticed me and slowed. I passed and got a littleways ahead when he punched it and tried to go by. I took the macho way out and down-shifted for max grunt... and flat left him. Someone on a FJR site says the FJR pulls harder 100-150 than most liter bikes. Dunno guess I'd have to try it on a liter bike | ||
| Josh_ |
It keeps raining so I can't keep the Feejer clean enough for pics. Maybe this weekend. | ||
| Mikej |
Post 'em dirty, more real that way.  I'm going to be real curious when you get in some longer mileage days on the bike once it's run in some. | ||
| Uwgriz |
Josh, have you considered the old lead shot in the bars trick? It might help with the hand numbing, but I wouldn't even know what to suggest for the "rest." I've been keeping an eye on what's out there for sport tourers for if and when my S3 needs replacing (or just a gargemate) so thanks for the review. | ||
| Josh_ |
griz, no but that might be a thought. Have you seen the bars tho ... hmm I posed a pic here somewhere... ah  it's only tubular where the controls are. I do have the heavy ThrottleMeisters and I think I'll switch form these Tacki touring grips to ProGrip Gels (which are hard to come by in 135mm length) | ||
| Tripper |
hmmmm. seems like a dense piece of rubber fitted between the bars and the triple tree might be worth trying. | ||
| Uwgriz |
Ah, nevermind... | ||
| Uwgriz |
Unrelated question - Will the bags hold a full face helmet? (Message edited by uwgriz on October 20, 2004) | ||
| Josh_ |
Yes, I've tried it. They also seem to be hermetically sealed (tho the S3s never leaked much either). I've heard the top box will not hold as much as the aftermarket units, but it integrates very nicely. 1 key for the whole bike. The bags and box also come off quicky and have integrated handles. Top box was $580 w/ tax and a 20% off deal with the bike. Color-matched Givi (they make a case each year to match the FJR factory paint) would be about $320. nit pik: I usually didn't lock the S3 gas cap. The FJRs is always locked and you can't remove the key when you open it. | ||
| Blake |
Great stuff Josh. How do the doggies like it? Mine hate the Buell. They head for the hills when they see me pulling off the cover. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Very Nice Ride, I would consider one if I was buying a Sport Touring Machine seeing Buell don't offer one. | ||
| Court |
>>>Will the bags hold a full face helmet? Generally they will if you are usually home for dinner on time, take them to a movie periodically and show normal respect. | ||
| V2win |
A few thoughts on the FJR. Like Josh, I rode a S3T. I had about 70,000 miles on mine when I sold it to one of our Bad Webers here. It was the most fun bike to ride that I have ever owned. I am wanting to do some long trips in the next 2 years and thought it was time to let someone else enjoy it. Tripp ask "would you buy a 2005 S3T". It was not going to be available and I doubt if a true sport tourer ever will be available from Buell/HD. I was all set to get a new VFR with bags until Josh told me about a 2005 FJR sitting on the floor in a dealership in Peru Indiana. I was not about to order and wait like most have to do. I bought the bike sight unseen and had never rode one. 1) The stock seat will drive your tail bone right up your back after 100-200 miles. It looks pretty but its not comfortable for long rides. I put a Corbin on and doubled my mileage before I need to get off the bike for a rest. I can go 200 miles easily before even thinking about fuel with the large tank. I have been getting about 45 mpg. 2) Vibrations. Not a problem on my bike. There is a little bit of a buzz in the pegs about 4300 rpm but not enough to be a noticeable problem. 3) Pain in the wrist. Yes, I did have a problem with it until I bought some risers. Click on the link if you want to see them: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2486718747&categor y=35580 The Buell was easy to work on. Hell, I have dang near rebuilt it along side of the road. The Yamaha is much more difficult to work on. Its high tech for sure. On the other hand I dont think I will need to carry 15 lbs of tools in my saddle bag when I am on a long trip with this bike. If it breaks, I have a 5 year warranty on it. 4) Handling. I have been able to do most of my riding on twisty roads with the FJR. At the end of the day, I am more tired than with the Buell. Its heavier. 600 lbs wet. It has much better suspension than I expected. But I could ride the Buell faster with less effort. And I do miss that torque out of the curve at low rpm. 5) The FJR is capable of speeds that the S3T could never dream of. Yes Josh, from 100-150 its flat gets it. Ask Bob about the last ride we did down FF south of Bixby. When you are backing off and then getting back into it on those big sweepers at 140-150 mph the FJR makes its own music that no S3T will ever hear. That said, some one recently ask me how I liked the FJR. I thought for a while, then said, "Its nice, its fast, it does everything I want it to do, but its just a bike. My Buell was a vibrating, thumping, snarling wheelie monster and more fun, like I said than any bike I have owned. Its just too bad that Buell/HD has their head up their a_s. All they want to make are bikes for the youngsters. When they stopped making the tube framed bikes they lost me as a customer. | ||
| Josh_ |
>How do the doggies like it? Mine like the Harley/Buells. Pretty funny really - they got used to the noise early on and learned it meant I was home to feed/play with them. Was out with them in town one day when a group of Harleys went by. Several of the guys blipped the throttle apparantly trying to scare the cute little doggies... who procceded to completely ignore them. They can't hear the FJR and have not expressed any interest in it when near by. >but its just a bike doesn't get much more succinct than that. I'm thinking about the risers with the adjustable angle. I keep trying to pull my elbows together to change the angle on my wrists. I'm not *even* commenting on Court's line (Message edited by josh_ on October 20, 2004) | ||
| Tripper |
Iv'e seen this happen... most impressive tool roll I have ever seen. did that come out right? | ||
| Ethanr |
V2win->Its just too bad that Buell/HD has their head up their a_s. All they want to make are bikes for the youngsters. When they stopped making the tube framed bikes they lost me as a customer. No disrespect intended, but they probably won't miss you. Most of the guys your age who are buying bikes seem to be going for the cruisers and tourers. You're a welcome exception. There's an up-and-coming generation of riders with cash to spend that wouldn't consider a Buell until the XB series came out. They're the ones who will be buying bikes for the next 20-30 years and Buell has to hit that market. Would I like to see Buell come out with a real sport-tourer? Sure. They've done it well in the past. Would I have bought one instead of my XB12S? Nope. | ||
| V2win |
"No disrespect intended, but they probably won't miss you". I disagree. They may not "miss" me, but they sure have "missed" me. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Ducati, Aprilia, and BMW make models that I would buy and ride. HD is just too fat and lazy to really go after the market.The market is there. Not only have they "missed" me, but they have missed thousands of others like me. I did not give up on Buell, they gave up on me and the thousands of others like me. Thats their loss. Erik had intended to go after the market with the S2T and the S3T but when HD got into the riders seat all changed. The XB bikes have a lot going for them. Great bike for weekend riding but try to do much else with them and your going to be wishing you had something else to ride. I know that this view will not be appreciated here, but its how I see the situation. Flame suit on. (Message edited by V2win on October 21, 2004) | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I kinda agree, When Buell dropped the Sport Touring Model they lost a lot of potential customers. Especially seeing that the XB line is a lot more reliabile than the previous tube frame models. |
