| Author | Message | ||
     Bluey |
Talked to my Buell Mechanic yesterday. He claims that synthetic oil is a waste of time for the type of riding I do Here in Long Island,NY. Claims it is only useful for track riding or States where the temp averages 90+ degrees every day. We average 70-90 for only a couple of months here! He actually says I'm better of with H-D 20/50. Hmmmm...why would he lie to me? He could have made more $$ on my 1K service....Anyone???? | ||
| Kevyn |
It's your motor, your choice. Personally, I've put synthetics in the S2T, the Ducati, the Jeep, 4Runner and the 325 Beemer. Is your peace of mind worth $4qt, $5qt or just under $2qt? I disagree about track riding and the temps but I'm not a mechanic in any sense of the term. Changing oil is probably the easiest maintenance work you'll ever do on your bike. Clean lubricants for the engine are necessary for performance and longevity. Change the oil and filter. If you can't change the filter, change the oil. Synthetic or regular, it's your choice for your bike. I'm staying with synthetics, changing them on a very regular basis and not worrying about whether or not my oil is lubricating and cooling as it should. Consider that HD and Buell are now using a synthetic oil in their new bikes. Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Porsche, Jaguar all use synthetic oils. Kenworth, Peterbilt, Ford, etc. are using synthetic oils...there has to be something to this, yes? | ||
| Kevyn |
Oh yeah, I wouldn't think for a minute that your mechanic was lying to you. He was simply stating his opinions based on his knowledge and experiences. It's still your motor and your decision. | ||
| M1combat |
I think that tech makes just enough money to give him that opinion... | ||
| Kevyn |
Let me also suggest this...if you believe that regular oils are fine in your bike for the type of riding you do in your local temps, may as well buy several gallons now while the prices are still low and availability high. Where ever I go where ever oil is sold, there are more and more synthetics and fewer regular non-synthetic oils... | ||
| Thunderbox |
I guess it depends on what you are doing with your bike. If you plan on driving it maybe 15000 miles then dumping it out the door then why pay extra for the next guy. If you plan on keeping it for a long time synthetics may be the way to go. Lets get real here. Many many motorcycles with over 100000 miles never seen a quart of synthetic and never had any engine problems. I tried Amsoil and my valves were so noisy I had to change brands. I use Bardahl Classic V twin Synthetic now but if I had to use a normal oil I would not panic too much. The most important thing about oils is to change the oil on a regular basis because the additives get used up and used up even faster on an air cooled motorcycle. Clean oil and new filter every 3000 miles and you won't have a problem with engine wear. Thats just my 2 cents worth. I have done extensive studies on our fleet and it doesn't pay in dollars and cents to use synthetics. We check our oils at the lab and you would be surprised how good regular oil is these days. We haven't lost an engine in a police vehicle here in over 6 years. And believe me they drive then like they were stolen. The best thing you will get from using synthetic is peace of mind. Now how much is that worth? We are talkin about our babies here. | ||
| Thunderbox |
The real reason the big push on synthetic is on is because of CAFE. Better fuel economy because the oil is a lot thinner when it it cold. Many have gone to 5W20 in there cars. I don't think we will be going to 10W30 too friggin soon in our Buells | ||
| Thunderbox |
Having said the above, don't get me wrong I personally believe that synthetics can be much better lubricants than regular oil but I always wonder if we really need to pay for a small improvement in lubrication. I guess if you want the best go with synthetics but if you are happy with the regular oils all the more power to you. | ||
| Bomber |
every report I've ever seen (I believe the most recent was a two-part series in Sport Rider) states that the most important factor in lubrication-related engine life is the frequency of oil changes. Synths won't last forever -- dino changed very often will likely be just fine. like has been said, thousands of engines have lead service lives on dino and frequent changes Synths seem to do a better job of lubricating, and seem to help temperature control -- me, I run synth in everything I own, but things tend to move into my motor pool and not go elsewhere along with everything else posted here, discussion on oil and lubrication approach those concerning religion when it comes to the level of rational discourse -- ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Synthetic oil has been PROVEN with thermographic imaging to allow an aircooled engine to run cooler. As much as 15F-30F cooler at idle. That alone, is worth the extra money, specially if you ride short distances or in stop and go traffic. | ||
| Thunderbox |
You are partly correct. 15 to 30 degrees cooler is correct but I don't see why a short trip would be better with synthetic. It takes about 45 or more miles to warm the oil to close to operating temp so it wouldn't be a real issue for short hauls. I would also say that 15 to 30 degrees is not a lot of difference but it does indicate that synthetics do cut down on friction. If you want the best pay the extra if you are happy with what the builders tell you to use go with the normal oil. The single greatest advantage to synthetic is for extreem cold weather applications. In this kind of weather the engine parts get lubricated without delay where a regular oil takes several minutes to get to all the engine parts. Not a real issue with motorcycles. | ||
| Thunderbox |
Lets put a different perspective on this oil subject. What is the main difference between normal oil and synthetic? The size of the molecules. In regular oil they are of a varying size in synthetic they are all of a uniform size and structure. Remember that synthetic is made from normal oil it is just processed differently. The best mineral oils are better than some synthetics. Hydrotreating of mineral oils can make then as good as some synthetics. Again it's a peace of mind thing for most of us. Everyone doesn't have the same budget to work on as others. Each to his own. I went to a seminar on lubricants and the head chemist from Mobil said that the synthetics are good for only twice as long as the normal oil under certain conditions. Under other condidions they aren't good for twice as long. Right from the horses mouth. He reccommends oil sampling but hey what kind of a budget do we have here? | ||
| Bluey |
 I dunno! I mainly ride my bike back & forth to work every day when weather permits. 25 miles each way. Going there(5:00AM) I cruise!! Coming home, stop&go. I guess I'll try synthetic on my next oil change. Can't hurt huh??? I wanna keep this XB12S forever so I guess I'll play it safe. Believe me...It's not a money issue,just needed some input as I hear positive and negative reasons why NOT to use synthetic...Thanx guys | ||
| Thunderbox |
Hey Bluey, you won't go wrong using a good synthetic oil that is for sure. Glad we could help you out in your decision making. This topic always stirs up some of the sediment at the bottom of the oil jug to say the least. If you aren't riding a Buell you may as well be walking. Have a good one and keep that machine running upright. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I have over 300,000 miles on my GMC pick-up truck. I've run nothing but 10w30 Castrol GTX in it since it was brand new. Never had the valve covers off and it still doesn't use an excessive amount of oil between every 5,000 miles. I'll only use synthetics in the Buell, though. | ||
| Ted |
All that, and Bueller's subjective views that the motors run cooler & trannys shift smoother with syn's. I've got Hd 20/50 but will use syn with the next change. | ||
| Crusty |
I put 60,000 miles on my '98 S3-T, and I used H-D 20W-50, and changed the oil every 2,000 miles. The man who bought the bike after I traded it in for my M2 tore down the engine and said that it was in perfect condition. Everything was well within spec. If you change your oil often, I bet you get over 100,000 miles out of your engine; regardless of whether you use "regular" or synthetic. | ||
| Rick_a |
My bike shifts so much better with synth that I will never go back to dino. My motor spends a lot of time in the upper revs. For these reasons, I use conventional oils only in four wheeled vehicles. | ||
| Blake |
Me confused. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Use either one, so long as you change your oil religiously the only real difference you will see with the synthetic is less money in your pocket. | ||
| M2me |
Ahhh, another oil thread! I agree with Bomber. It usually ends up being a religious debate. I have been using Syn3 in the transmission and engine since 10,000 miles. I think it does shift better and there does seem to be less valvetrain noise. I haven't really noticed any difference in temperature. Without a temp gauge there isn't any way to tell. Whenever I need to buy a quart I just bend over and grab my ankles!  Use any good quality oil, check and change it frequently and you'll be fine. The rest is just personal beliefs and preference. | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
I think that with as cheaply syn can be had at Wally world, I say why not? | ||
| Ray_maines |
I use full syn and really believe in the stuff. That said, let me offer a different viewpoint: (First, there are always exceptions to every rule. You might be that exception. YAMMV) None of us are going to have our bikes long enough to reap the rewards of synthetic oil. Some how, some way, we will all crash our bikes, blow up our bikes, sell our bikes, rebuild our bikes or suffer the bike being stolen.  Even if you do keep it for 20 years, you'll be riding your newer, bigger, better, faster bike by then anyhow. I think that in actual practice, it's more important to use the exact same type\brand\weight of oil each and every time than the actual type of oil that you use. Whatever you choose to use, change it and the filter every once in a while and you'll be OK. One last thought: Most of us change the oil three, maybe four, times per year, so the difference between $3.00 oil and $8.00 oil is only $50 a year. Most of us have steady jobs and this motorcycle stuff is only a hobby anyway, so spend the extra money. Quit eating candy bars if that's what it takes, but buy the good stuff and change it now and then. | ||
| Captainkirk |
IMHO it's important to change your oil every three months (90 days) or 1500 miles REGARDLESS which comes first. If you can afford to dump synth every 90 even if it's got 300 miles on it, go for it. The acids formed by condensation are FAR MORE harmful than any differences between synth and dino drippings. Just my 2 cents....  | ||
| Paulinoz |
Was that bike above affected by a lubrication issue or is it a result of loss of CONTACT PATCH. | ||
| Reepicheep |
When lab studies have been done, normal oils are already showing measureable performance degradation after 1000 miles, but full synthetic "goes the distance" of the 3500 mile change interval. Our aircooled bikes are on the edge of the temperature envelope where normal oil will suddenly "fall over" and just die all at once. I think there is like a 50 to 70 degree margin. So as you sit there, stuck barely crawling on I-75 in a traffic jam, on that windless 102 degree summer afternoon, right after you filled up with crappy gas, wondering if the factory timing that was set on your bike 20,000 miles ago is still right, or was in fact ever right in the first place, are you sure you did not eat your margin? Are you sure you did not cross that magic temperature, and turn your oil into non lubricating liquid? Full synthetic gives a much bigger margin, like 125 or more degrees. Basically, if the bike is still running and the rider is not on fire, the oil ain't baked That, and the fact that the bike runs cooler, are why thats all I ever put in my Cyclone. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I really can't tell that synthetics make my bike run cooler, quieter, or even shift better. | ||
| Bomber |
mobil 1 15-50 and 20-50 result in a 10/15 degree drop in peak oil temps (measured with an Autometer oil temp guage)  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Crusty I have to ask a question about this The man who bought the bike after I traded it in for my M2 tore down the engine and said that it was in perfect condition. Everything was well within spec Why would he tear down a motor that was in perfect condition?? | ||
| Bluey |
The temp here in NY has not yet gone above 85 degrees. The mornings are usually in the low to mid 60's. Do I really hafta worry about my oil temp though?? |
