| Author | Message | ||
     984_cc |
Yes, I agree. More people need to rally to get Suzuki to build it! | ||
| 984_cc |
Here's a poll for people to submit their vote on their favourite concept bike if interested. Since Yamaha is going to build the MT-01 for Europe, they just need to decide if they will sell it in the U.S.. Kind of ironic that they would have to ponder on that, huh? I think the B-King needs to be built. The Kawasaki ZZR-X is cool too. http://www.sportrider.com/features/poll_concept_bikes/ | ||
| Dresden |
For upcoming bikes, I like the KTM Duke 990 naked bike. I think they will be available in Austria next month. | ||
| Dresden |
Court, Fischer says their korean engined bike will be out by year's end. | ||
| 984_cc |
I like the Duke too. Cool bike. Isn't the Fischer's engine a copy of the Suzuki V-twin? Are they going to have a 650 and a 1000? The Fischer looks very interesting as well. | ||
| Altima02 |
That yahamha mt01 concept came out in 2001. A french bike maker used the exhaust on a custom v-max. The niceset bike i have ever seen | ||
| Altima02 |
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lazareth/Rubrique_New/Diapos-VMax-BiMonoBras.htm This V-max custom has a front brake rotor just like the buell, but is built right inside of the rim. And, this is cool, no mirrors. A rearview camera and a monitor in the dash edited by altima02 on July 29, 2004 | ||
| Court |
>>>Court, Fischer says their korean engined bike will be out by year's end. Cool....the first time they said that was 1998 of something. I, call them "low hanging fruit" have always used Fisher to illustrate the differnece between TALKING about developing and selling a motorcycle and DOING it. It's not personal. Just making the point that THE MOTORCYCLE only represents a very small part of the work involved. Court | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Boy you guys are a wealth of knowledge  , I learn more every time I get on board my XB12r, and every time i log onto this web sight. All of these other bikes are attractive, flashy, exciting. I've owned Suzukis, Hondas, A Harley, admired Yamahas and Kawi's, Ducatis and Triumph. Before I bought my XB, I looked at and gathered info on at least one model bike from just about all of them as well as a Victory Vegas, in fact the Buell wasn't actually something I set out to look at, but it (the XB ) had intrigued me from the first time I saw one, and I found myself being drawn toward it more and more. I like the cleanliness of the design. I like the ZTL Brake and front wheel as a result. I like that is has the fuel in the frame, and the heavy exhaust underslung, fact is, its the beat lookin bike of all of those I checked out, as well as the ones you guys have brought to light here. Since my purchase two months ago, I havent looked back. Hell I wish I had another so I could ride the snot out of it, cause I feel like the bike wants it, but I can't afford to trash it. In short, good for yamaha, it's cute in that Japanese tecno look way, But..... BUELL BABY, BUELL | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
Tbs, News Flash: Buell was the first production bike to use USD forks. Do you have any clue as to the difference between producing quantities of street bikes versus a one-off show bike or GP racer? Why are you here? To dump on Buells? If so, take a hike. If not, what is your deal? Blake, newsflash, Suzuki used inverted forks on its 1990 GSXR 1100 & 750. Buell may have used them on his RS1200s, but that was hardly a mass-produced machine. The Thunderbolt came out in 94ish, four years after Suzuki used them. Besides the obvious differences between a production bike and a race bike? I'm not here to slam Buells, the 12 is on a short list to replace my R1100S, but I can look at them objectively. Buell took various ideas, along with his own, and combined them into a great package. He did not, however, invent all of the ideas he implemented. | ||
| M1combat |
Maybe not tbs, but he sure as heck implemented them the best  . IMO of course . | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
Of course.  | ||
| Davegess |
RS1200's may not have been mass produced but they cetainly were series production motorcycles. Meeting ALL EPA, DOT, NHTSA, as well as regulations from Japan, Great Britan and Germany. I would say they were the first production motorcycles with upside down forks, six piston brake calipers and stainless steel brake lines. And just for grins the RR series is the most streamlined production motorcycle ever.  | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Dave! Larry, What is your objective in trying to point out in detail that Erik Buell was not the first engineer to conceptualize certain unconventional configurations of components comprising a motorcycle? Here's another one for you... Erik Buell did not invent the internal combustion engine. Want another?... Erik Buell did not invent rubber tires. One more?... Erik Buell did not invent handlebars. Whew, glad we clarified all that. This thread started with someone posting their view that the new Yamaha MT01 very much resembles the Buell look, to which you for some reason felt obligated to point out that Buell did not "invent" perimeter brakes and underslung exhausts. Well, I guess I disagree with your narrow interpretation of history, and I think others do as well. Why is it that some people just relish deflating the enthusiasm of others; why talk down something truly worthy of renown? I guess that such behavior falls in line with trying to feel good about oneself by diminishing the accomplishments of others. I liken your commentary on things Buell to the following statements. See if you agree. Michael Jordon wasn't the first man to dunk a basketball. Lot's of golfers have won championships before Tiger Woods came along. He wasn't the first man of color to play golf either. The B2 Stealth Bomber is not "invisible" to radar. If Emmett Smith didn't have great blockers to help clear a path, he wouldn't have the all-time rushing record. If Wayne Gretzky hadn't so often been in the right place at the right time, he wouldn't have made so many goals. The Brooklyn bridge isn't the first suspension bridge ever built, and it was grossly over-designed. If something had gone wrong, Neil Armstrong might have died on the moon. I hope you can see my point without being offended. My intention is not to attack. It is to explain why I and others react as we do to comments such as yours. I abhor such passive-aggressive negativity. This is BadWeatherBikers.com, a Buell enthusiasts' site, not "The Forum for Pristinely Objective Review of Motorcycle Technologies." Know what I mean? Welcome! | ||
| Court |
Let me help. Erik Buell was NOWHERE NEAR the first person to realize the advantages of using stainless tell brake lines on a motorcycle. Erik Buell WAS THE FIRST person to EVER figure out how to ACTUALLY USE THEM and meet the govt requirements to pass the "whip test" that left the rest of the world wishing they could use them. Oldtimers bear with me, I am going to once again quote STEVE JOBS:
Court | ||
| Blake |
Was waiting for you to speak up with that famous quote. Damn, I need to ship something. Like $40 off of to John. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Looking thru the Buell archives the earliest I can find mention of USD forks is 1991 with the RSS. In 1990 the RS had conventional forks.  I believe Suzuki came out with USD forks in 89 or 90. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
LOL...I found the source of Eriks under motor exhaust design 1976-77 Motobecane   They used that design from the 50's up to the late 70's. | ||
| Odie |
Looks like there are upside down forks on the yellow one too!!! | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
Thanks R1DS about the USD forks. LOL about the belly exhaust. My objective was to keep this thread a little grounded. Its started out someone mentioned the MT01, and that was followed by people digging up various bikes, and saying they ripped off the Buell. The Guzzi, for example, follows the style of another production bike they did which predates the 9S. It then turned into a who invented what. It then turned into a fact-check session of "Which came first?". So what enthusiasm did I deflate? Was it the enthusiastic, and sometimes inaccurate, calling of every bike that had anything remotely to do with Buell a copycat. Especially when some of the styling elements of those bikes predated what appeared on Buells. Blake, are you not capable of discussing Buells without attacking me as a hater? I love my Triumph, but I'm aware that a lot of the tech was borrowed from Kawasaki. Again, I like Buells and I like the Atlanta Brag folks I've met. But I also know when the emperor is naked, or atleast when he doesn't have socks on.. (Message edited by TBS_Stunta on July 31, 2004) | ||
| Court |
>>>>But I also know when the emperor is naked, or atleast when he doesn't have socks on.. That's an inaccurate statement. Are you, as well, capable of telling when one of the subjects is ill informed? Court | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
I am, I didn't realize I made some incorrect statements. How did I err? | ||
| Court |
>>>He did not, however, invent all of the ideas he implemented. Erik Buell was (I'm going to avoid use of the word "first", it tends to be a bit TOO inclusive - for instance Marconi had darned little to actually DO with wireless, he was ONE of the first to appreciate and market it) ONE OF THE FIRST to pool the cumulative thinking, research and state of the science on many of the things mentioned above and then go about how to usefully employ them on a motorcycle. The perimeter brakes have been around since long before disc brakes. They have never performed for the very reasons cited by Mr. Kittrelle when he tested them in Battle2Win. Everyone else has slapped them on wheels designed for rotors and failed to LOOK at the system. A key component to the ZTL system working for Buell is that they stepped back, looked at the entire system, integrated it, made the components complimentary and made it a commercially better solution...then the nuts go and sell it an a marketable price. That, my friend, is an entrepreneur. Was Erik Buell the first? Perhaps a tough call, but he was close enough that the USPTO makes it an actionable crime for someone else to use a system that is, or endeavors to emulate Buells systems. Gads..I could go on all day. Interest you that Erik Buell holds some patents for some things that have absolutely nothing to do with motorcycles, transportation or anything even wildly related? Anyway....first?...who knows, but regardless a person worthy of the awards he's received for developing what others had tried to do and failed. Court | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
I agree that Erik deserves praise for the total package he makes. They're excellent bikes combining a lot of avante-garde technology. "Was Erik Buell the first? Perhaps a tough call, but he was close enough that the USPTO makes it an actionable crime for someone else to use a system that is, or endeavors to emulate Buells systems." How does that relate to say the big 4 all using radial brakes, and Brembo using them before (can't remember if anyone did them before Brembo). Unless they are licensing the tech from Brembo. | ||
| Court |
>>>Unless they are licensing the tech from Brembo. They are not. However, if Brembo wants to use perimeter brakes they, like others, can pay the royalties to Buell and use them. BUELL...Making the World Better...One Caliper at a Time. | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
My licensing comment was concerning the big 4 using radials after brembo, or who ever, did. What I meant was that everyone's radial brakes are pretty damn similar, why isn't Honda, for example, being penalized for copying Kawasaki's radial brakes? And what does that mean if say, Honda were to mimic Buell's brakes? I'm basing this on your comment of: "Was Erik Buell the first? Perhaps a tough call, but he was close enough that the USPTO makes it an actionable crime for someone else to use a system that is, or endeavors to emulate Buells systems." | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Im not sure how patents work around the world. How would the US patent office or Erik Buell for that matter go about filing a claim against a company in Japan or Korea or anywhere else overseas that wanted to use the same system? I dont think a US patent has anymore clout overseas than I do. Am I wrong on this? | ||
| Elvis |
I don't know what Buell did, but you have a window to file in other countries. If you've already been granted the patent in the US you've done the hardest part, but they'll do a similar investigation of prior art in the areas you're applying. Since there are relatively few countries producing motorcycles (Japan, Italy, Germany etc.) the foreign patent applications could be fairly focused, but again, I don't know what Buell actually did. | ||
| Darthane |
Even if for some reason they didn't apply for a 'world' patent, would the fact that they hold the patent in the US keep foreign manufacturers from selling a bike in the US that violates that patent? | ||
| Elvis |
"Even if for some reason they didn't apply for a 'world' patent, would the fact that they hold the patent in the US keep foreign manufacturers from selling a bike in the US that violates that patent?" I believe so, and now that you say that, I think it does depend on where it's sold, not where it's made, so they would have to blanket a larger area rather than just worrying about the manufacturing countries. At the same time, since the US is probably the biggest market, most manufacturers would probably just avoid making a product that violates US patents because they wouldn't be able to sell it here. |
