| Author | Message | ||
     Dyna |
Seriously thats what they have said......Bleustein has mentioned it as have several other bigwigs. You hear it at the local level from the dealers...they all want you to move up to an HD. Why? Hell if I know. I went the opposite direction, already had the HD & got the Buell later. And I think you are right as to why Buellers eventually move up to BMW's. Maybe Buell is targeting the wrong market by going after sportbikes when they should be going after sport touring bikes. Its the next big fad in my opinion & its only going to get bigger. People want to travel & tour & dont want to have to screw with T-bags & strapping everything down. get a nice bike with hard bags like the BMW's have or the FJR...which is a killer deal...& have a great time wherever you want to go. | ||
| Curtyd |
What I mean is take the technology and design from the Buell and call it a HD. That is a pretty common reason corporations buy other corporations, to acquire their proprietary systems and then dump off everything but what they want for their own uses. NOW this is starting to get scary, I 'd better rein in my paranoia. But if the worst comes true, remember who said it first. Actually better minds than mine have probably already predicted this somewhere. edited by Curtyd on May 31, 2004 | ||
| Cerbero |
my 97 M2 is the only vehicle i own. i ride it every day, in every weather condition, everywhere... the same held true for my old 76 R90/6... i tend to avoid "brand consciousness" in most aspects of my life... but i find i'm loyal to the machine i'm riding... while i'm riding it. as for "moving up" to a HD; it'll never happen. i don't really care for them... nor do i see myself on a japanese sport bike anytime soon... i look for the unique, and that is exactly what buell is. unique. you won't find another bike like it. will my next bike be a buell? i don't know... but my current bike is. and that's all that matters. | ||
| Piggos |
I've done just the opposite- A Ducati and two BMWs from '88 to '95, an Electra Glide in '98 and an X1 in 2000, all new. The Duc was a different experience, but the BMWs weren't the most trouble-free bikes I've ever owned. They were quite reliable, but required more service visits than should have been. The first, an R100GS (black & yellow) had a drive shaft universal fail, and had constant electrical gremlins. The second, an R1100RS, had butter-soft wheels and really low quality plastic components. The explanation for the plastics was that all components are marked for recycleability, and must be made of materials that are reuseable. Check out the handlebar switches on a 2 year old BMW sometime- they'll be light grey instead of black. Meanwhile, at 52,000 miles my 'Glide has done nothing wrong save for an alternator (nippondenso) and continues to serve well. The X1 has always been treated like a grenade with a missing pin- I read the Knowledge Vault section carefully, and have heeded the tribal knowledge- and have had no problems with the bike. None. Would I buy another BMW? Maybe. An HD? only if they build a tourer with a V-Rod engine. A Buell? Definitely- especially if the bike was re-focused for sport touring; light bags, longer wheelbase, open ergos. You Bet. | ||
| Dyna |
HD goes about things in an odd way. Look at what they did with the VR1000, they were never really interested in winning races but were developing the motor & working on the design for the V-Rod. Why did they buy Buell? Its not like they needed the small amount of profit it brings them. I have said before & I will say it again that they bought Buell as a test bed for the HD lineup. Look at the new XL's for proof of that. Bring out a new engine in the Buells for a year & half then throw it in the sporty with some cosmetic differences. Why risk alienating a huge portion of your HD market by bringing out a motor that may have some teething issues? Try it out in a Buell first, its not like they are actually going to trade up to a big twin anyways so what do you have to lose if the bike has some issues? Your core market is still happy & you are still making profits even while using Buell as a test bed. | ||
| Dyna |
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| Racerboy |
Now THIS is an interesting thread… Curtyd…”How about dealer service, one big complaint on this BBS? I kind of look at it another way, HD is kind of stuck with us now, plus with a service manual I can either do it myself or trot off to a local HD wrench and they'll usually jump into it and do what needs to be done.”…At least there are dealers…A big reason I’ll probably never have another beemer…The dealer here in St Louis is pricy but VERY good at service…The techs are some of the best I’ve ever dealt with…But, when you look at the total network of dealers, it’s really small and sometimes you can be stranded hundreds of miles from the closest one…And don’t believe for a minute that old wives tale about beemer reliability…It’s apparently no longer the case…Read the tales from the ’03 IBR…Read the letters to the editor in BMW ON…So, to my mind, that leaves H-D (read Buell) and the four Japanese marques… Grndskpr…”I am on no ones team”…Boy, have you got it exactly right…You choose what is best for you at that particular time in your riding career…Sure helps if you don’t have a closet full of riding stuff with brand names on it…And if you don’t have “Ninja Girl” tat’d down the back of your neck in Kanji and you’ve sold the bike…We’ll just have to get her on another real soon…God, we miss that riding with that girl… Kelly…”But hey, that's just me”...And me (ST13), and John (V2win prolly on an VFR PDQ) and Josh (FJR13), and Neil (ST13) and a host of others…Obviously someone has made a marketing decision and it doesn’t include those of us who like to ride big (s)miles in comfort and still be able to play a bit when we arrive…I have said many times that my S3T is as comfy a ride as the RT or my current ST13…It just doesn’t have the same amount of weather protection…The one time I broke down on the road, Buell of Knoxville was very good to me…That dealer network thing again… Dyna…”Roger, you & the wife deserve a BMW. Get a K1200GT & never look back. We have test ridden one & its an awesome bike. Fantastic for cross town or cross country.”…Well, okay, until you look at the range of about 150 miles or so…Very un-beemer like…Put the stats of a R11RT, K12GT, FJR13 and ST13 into a spreadsheet as I did when I had to replace my R11RT and the range of the GT just screams “Don’t buy me”…And, damn, I did like that scooter…Oh to have electronic cruise control again… Boulderbiker…”its awefully hard to deny that Erik hit the nail he was aiming for”…Not to denigrate Erik because I have a hell of a lot of respect for his engineering and design talents…And so do a lot of the professionals in the moto business…But the question is “Is someone else telling him what nail to aim for”…I don’t know… Mr Bleustein was quoted in the H-D annual report something to the effect that “Buell was a good fit for Harley (referring to the purchase of Buell) because many Buell riders would choose to “move up” to a Harley…Well, that may or may not be so…But from my observation of our group here it certainly is most definitely NOT so…We’re sport bike types and prolly always will be…Hell, if my wife rode with me at all, I’d have a GL1800 in a heartbeat to comfort her bones…That thing is almost a sport tourer…It’s got a huge engine and a really stiff chassis and the suspension can always be “teased”…Any of you who have seen the gentleman from Indiana that does (or did) the videos on The Dragon of others can attest to how that big barge can be thrown around by a good rider…His only instruction to the squids is to keep it under 60…60!!! My gawd!…When you follow him you would swear the wing is down in each turn only to flick back up and be thrown down the other way… In summary, for those of you who have embraced the XB’s, I am very happy for you…You guys and gals will keep the home fires burning for us who have passed through here…Maybe someday there will be something of a sport touring nature here again…We can only so hope… And finally in response to the title of this thread...FISH OR CUT BAIT, ARE YOU A "BUELLER"?...I guess in my heart I always will be but in the end I'm just a motorcyclist... My best to all, Bob edited by racerboy on May 31, 2004 | ||
| Outrider |
Curt...don't sweat the paranoia. We all have it and it shows at times. Enjoy what you have while you have it. I never sold a bike that I didn't suffer extreme "Sellers Remorse" over, except for my 1980 AMF Wide Glide. As for what a lot of us are praying HD does in their line up, consider the following based on the V-Rod platform:   Note both are tubers which HD does well. The first one is a Retro StreetTracker, which I would buy in a heartbeat regardless of what was on the market. The second is a Star Wars StreetFighter, which I would consider if the Retro weren't available and nothing else on earth floated my boat. Until then my X1 is just what I want for a sporting bike as the new generation Buells just don't do it for me. Don't get me wrong, I like them and admire all that Erik and Company have done to develop them. They just don't meet my personal criteria. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Bill, I'd have the top one in a second!!! | ||
| Cu_chulann |
The only bike I would consider trading my X1 for unfortunately is not on the market yet. But hopefully next year it will be the K.T.M. RC8 is extreme enough for me. Preferably with the V4 engine but even the V2 will do, roll on 2005. | ||
| Grndskpr |
?? Something happen? Totaled(i think) the Ducati making a turn, about 4 houses from home, truck pulled out in front of me and did $4800 in damage, the bike is ridable now, but not sure what the insurance will do, so i have to wait and see, long weekends dont help matters, however the rain made it hurt less Sure helps if you don’t have a closet full of riding stuff with brand names on it Another good point, the gear i use, i feel is the best in the industry, so it has no name or affliation with anyone but them, and as of 2 weekends ago, it has saved me from some damage twice, and still looks almost as good as it did when i bought it, i dont think there is a better suit that Aerostich, and now i am convinced R | ||
| Racerboy |
Grndskpr...Yep, 'Stich's are wonderful things, are they not?...Mine saved my sorry arse twice...Once sliding down the road at 70 mph while the beemer was doing front flips and then last fall in a deer strike...Deer 0, 'Stich 1...I'm sorry about your duc but, and I know you feel this way too, the cycles are replaceable and we and our friends are not...Glad you're safe... Bob | ||
| Daves |
I'm a Bueller! That is not to be taken as "I don't like other bikes" or "I'm better than you because I ride a certain brand" Ride to the edge! Dave daves@h-dappleton | ||
| Grndskpr |
I'm a Bueller! Not to sound stupid or anything(whats new) but do you even own a Buell??? R | ||
| Outrider |
Newfie...Me too! That Retro StreetTracker is so cool looking it just radiates a purist image of bad boys from days gone by with some modern technology. Really don't care if it is the quickest in the twisties and fastest in the straights, as long as it handles relatively neutral and has a decent lean angle, your skills will keep you ahead of most and not far behind the best. Wish Buell could make it, even with the XB12 power train, but realize that Harley is in a better position to do so at least in the short term. Gosh, I just love "Dirty Street Bikes." | ||
| Curtyd |
Personally, I think you're way off when you look at the V-Rod as a sportbike application. It is probably good where it's at, street-rod, low -rider, but I guess just by looking at it that it's heavy and with a lot of mass to fight against in corners, trying to twist it over against the gyroscopic effect of the rolling wheels. I'll bet it'll be a real handful. | ||
| Racerboy |
Curtyd...You're probably correct in that the VRSC engine would not adapt well to a sport bike application due to size and weight...The really good ones are purpose built...And, I think, the riding public really can appreciate that...I can just imagine the discussions in Munich at the start of the new K40 project that is now the K1200S...Imagine BMW having the guts to say "Well, we've gone as far as we can go with the "flying brick" so for this new project to meet our goals (Blackbird or 'Busabeater, whatever) we think an in-line transverse four is the ticket to success"...The result is a smaller, lighter engine with a hell of a lot more punch...And not to forget the new KTM V when it hits the street in a sport bike...That thing is absolutely tiny giving the designers a bunch of options as to exactly where to position it in the chassis...Just as the VRSC engine is the heart of that motorcycle making it absolutely great for it's purpose, so it is also true for the new beemer and for the XB's...The engine truly dictates the eventual success or failure...Nothing else can mask the lack of a great heart... Bob | ||
| Curtyd |
The KTM motor is the ticket right now, small, light and high HP, too bad Buell can't or won't license it. That K1200 motor from the pictures looks pretty darn compact as well. The article said only 2 inches wider that a Ducati V-Twin, that'll work. I doubt if HD will develop any new motors just for Buell, look at all it took to bring the V-Rod on line. So it's back to incremental improvements of the sportster mill, or licensing something from someone else. Erik still doesn't have the license for the square 4 two-stroker he based his racebike on, too bad. I could go for a two stroke. Actually years ago I thought I read that HD had a license out of Australia or somewhere for a clean two cycle motor. Anyone remember anything about that? | ||
| Outrider |
Curtyd...Wasn't thinking of the Retro StreetTracker as a Buell or Sportbike competitor with either the XB12 or V-Rod engine. Just looking for a good handling Muscle Bike with Classic Styling, which is something HD can do easily if they feel the market warrants it. Heck, both Dyna and I own X1's and Wide Glides. Sure the X1's are more sporting, but we have no problem keeping up with the fast boys on our Wide Glides unless the lean angles get to be too extreme and even then, there are techniques...Oh heck, with all the bikes you have owned, you know what I am talking about. Those Gold Wings weren't that bad, were they? LOL | ||
| Daves |
R, Nope, I don't need to. That has always been part of my deal for both dealerships I have been with. If that makes me less of a Bueller in your eyes then so be it, you are wrong, but if that's the way you see it I can live with that. When I sold cars I got a demo too, didn't make me less of a Ford fan. I(and my wife) still drive Fords even though I(we) have to pay for them now. If I quit the business tomorrow I'd go out and buy a Buell the next day, maybe before I left. Ride to the edge! I guess I'm not a real Bueller to some. Dave daves@h-dappleton.com | ||
| Ezblast |
LOL  | ||
| Stealthxb |
Daves... It's too bad your not a "real Bueller", you sure contribute a lot to the community. Keep up the hard work pseudo Bueller, most of us appreciate it! | ||
| Grndskpr |
I guess I'm not a real Bueller to some Dave dont be so sensative, jesss, but its a good point of reference for some and a lesson for others, ie, you dont need to own a specific bike to admire it, or for that matter be a fan of it some thing to think about see ya thursday R | ||
| Daves |
I agree, I like Ducati but don't own one. Don't know if I ever would but I like them all the same. Yes, see you on Thursday. Ride to the edge! Dave | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Dave, If part of my employment contract was to have access to a Buell I don't think I'd buy one either. Unless, it was a RSS or Battletwin, S2 etc, etc...... Personally, I am a Bueller, love it, I have access to a Blast and to be quite honest its one of the best balanced bikes at very very low speed I have ever rode. I love my S1 but also love beating around the Blast too. The sportbike guys really get surprised that the Blast can keep up on real twisty roads, just underpowered especially with my weight on it. For kickin arse I use my S1 which is just pure attitude. Who cares about top speed - I get a hard time from the sport bikers on top speed but I don't care....I usually respond "Why whine like a bitch when you can roar like a lion!!!!" | ||
| Grndskpr |
While your here Dave, bring the hugger thurs, and a total so i can cut you a check, and: I like Ducati but don't own one You can ride the monster, if you want R | ||
| Dyna |
Hmm a Bueller you ask? Well the wife just bought me this today I guess now you can say im in the Yamaha R1 camp. BTW..this bike absolutely rocks. Put on about 30 miles so far & its gonna be a good one. | ||
| Grndskpr |
YOU SUCK And not like, kinda, i mean really you just suck Now you have to come to the ride home, just so i can see the thing R | ||
| Daves |
R, I'll have to see if it will fit in my backpack. If it does I'll bring it along. Sure I'll take the Monster for a spin! Dyna, Congrats! Can I ride it?  Dave | ||
| Dyna |
I will definitely be there either friday or saturday......dont even have a schedule of events or anything. Will just wing it I guess. |
