| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
We'll see. We will.... I guess its who you know. I know a few. That question I just asked two week's ago. The question was answered without hesitation. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Re-designing the current TC96 into what and when it happens, what will the first water cooled baggers look like. This company is still customer / product driven, but the Buell XB head port and casting design is used on the current H-D TC heads. The engineering exersize to try and retro-fit a different crank, case, and or transmission into the current air cooled engines, would not be as easy. So taking a clean CAD screen and then remembering what works and adding it to what you want you want different seem to me to be the best way to go. It's the engineering that Buell has brought to the H-D table that not only makes our Buell's so special, but will continue to find it's way into those other bikes they build. Just my humble opinion. Terry | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"We will.... I guess its who you know." You're right Dana, I don't know anybody. The T-Storm will be around for a while. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
you know i do not get this post very much. the current xb engine is a lot different than the first xb engine. and it is a whole lot different than even the first evo sportster. Heck my M2s engine has a lot of differences than my dads 86 sporster evo engine. Heck the 10 engine is even different than the 09. | ||
| Hughlysses |
How does that work? I would think that if the flow was bottlenecked at the cat, it wouldn't matter how much flow you had available behind it...? The flow doesn't have to be bottlenecked- they make high flow, low restriction catalytic converters. We used to think performance cars were doomed when cats first came out, now every car built has them, including the fastest exotics out there. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Cats no cats, cats do not always mean lower HP. Let's not think big heavy restrictive units used on cars and trucks! The CA Buell 1125 has a cat system and the BMC does not publish a different HP for CA models. Cats are coming and may be the answer to CARB issues such as smog testing. So what if a well designed free flowing exhaust system used the cat as the source of much needed back pressure. As long as there are 02 bungs forward of the cat, or they are not in the way of tunning the A/F curve, I don't care that the BP source is. I know that Bub's has some prototype Reinheart with cats. And as a tuner if Rich Products makes a Thunderheader with any BP it would be a good thing. Terry | ||
| Xl1200r |
Just food for thought - the 4th gen Camaros and Firebirds actually saw a slight increase in HP when the EPA required they move to a different and better cat system. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
was that the V6 Z-28? | ||
| Spike |
That's true, but it also requires a massive crank and limits the available RPM range that everyone else loves.  Given the option, would you prefer to have the power delivery of a twin cam in your Buell? The twin cam makes even more torque off the bottom end and has a lot of flywheel effect. That's great for moving a big cruiser, but for sport riding the quicker-revving XB engine is more fun even if it makes less power on the bottom end. I think a variation of the XB mill that revved even quicker would be even more funner even at the expense of some low end torque. | ||
| Xl1200r |
No such thing as a V-6 Z/28. This was in 1996 when they had to go OBD-II compliant and use dual cats. Made for a 10hp increase. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Spike - To make use of those higher RPMs, you would want DOHC as well, and viola - you have the 1125. I've owned both an XB and an 1125. To me, the 1125 feels strinkingly similar to my XB up to about 7,000rpm. There, the XB piddled off, but the 1125 just keeps pulling. Aside from the radiators and an extra 40hp made on the top half of the rev range, there isn't THAT much of a difference in character between the two engines - certaintly not enough to justify making one more like the other. | ||
| Swordsman |
"The flow doesn't have to be bottlenecked- they make high flow, low restriction catalytic converters. We used to think performance cars were doomed when cats first came out, now every car built has them, including the fastest exotics out there." Ah, okay. I really was asking a question there... I know very little about the subject. ~SM | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Don't UK/Euro spec XB's have cats? They have less hp/torque and different headers. | ||
| Buelleaver |
like it or not the epa is going to force leaner and leaner emissions until all air cooled engines are history. Again, that is a common myth. It couldn't be further from the truth. There is NOTHING inherent in an air-cooled engine that prevents it from meeting strict emissions standards. It is the liquid cooled machines that require catalytic converters in order to meet current emissions standards. The Buell air-cooled engines do not. The Buell air-cooled engines are also much more efficient. There is no 600cc IL4 with comparable power that can get close to the fuel efficiency of the Buell air-cooled models. So, there you go. Cool eh?  Blake As long as the v twin survives in some form I'll be okay. This is a new one from aprilla. 90 degree 750cc  (Message edited by blake on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Boltrider |
Running an engine super lean might not pass a smog test. Doing this is good for reduced hydrocarbons but bad for NOx levels. | ||
| Mtch |
euro spec xb's have a cat, and smaller headers on the 1203. a friend has an 09 XB12Ss and even with 45mm headers and an HP reverso can it is still not as quick as my 07. that is probably due to the ecm and its emissions setup | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I am without bike. I have a choice of 1125 or 12. I am buying the 12. I prefer it for the street. I just connect with it. There are very strong fans of air-cooled Ducatis. They still exist. If they can do it, Buell can as well. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"I prefer it for the street. I just connect with it. There are very strong fans of air-cooled Ducatis. They still exist. If they can do it, Buell can as well. " I hope there are enough fans of the air-cooled lump that it stays, and it sounds like from what Dana says that it's no going anywhere soon. Whether it gets any power updates or not is another question. Maybe the XR1000 engine wasn't exactly what EB had in mind when he started Buell, but for 20 years it became a defining feature of Buell motorcycles, and it made them different from anything else on two wheels. It has become part of Buells heritage, IMHO. BMW tried to kill off the air cooled flat twin with the K100 brick in the eighties. The K bikes were probably better in every quantifiable respect (except maybe weight), but people liked the twins. There is now one brick model left in the Beemer range, while the R series range has grown back to six. With a little out of the box thinking I think the XB could be updated. Not made more like an 1125, made more like an XB . Chili's mythical Buell line up for 2011: "Following the release of the 165kg, 180hp 1195RR in mid 2010, and with the 2011 1125 and 725 R and CR models getting minor revisions including an extra 8hp for the 1125's, Buell has surprised everyone with the release of the XB13R Firebolt. With a revised bore and stroke for 1350cc's and a 7800rpm redline, the air and oil cooled twin may not be the most civilised or refined, but it pumps out an impressive 130hp and 78lbft of torque, and is crammed into the Firebolts legendary razor sharp chassis. Rumor has it that the same power plant will be released in a limited edition, solo seat, XB13S White Lightning, making what could arguably be the ultimate Buell streetfighter." (Message edited by lemonchili_x1 on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Lemonchili, I like the way you think.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The torque numbers suck, Lemon, but I think that would be possible as well. I think there are advances that can be made on the XB engine case. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I was trying to be at least a little realistic  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The current XB does 84ftlbs of torque. I'd expect at least 90. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Oops, just realised for that sort of hp it'd have to make 88ftlbs at 7800rpm... Bwah ha ha ha | ||
| Froggy |
Hmm a white XB Lightning with solo seat? That is a great idea!  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"With a revised bore and stroke for 1350cc's and a 7800rpm redline, the air and oil cooled twin may not be the most civilised or refined, but it pumps out an impressive 130hp and 78lbft of torque, and is crammed into the Firebolts legendary razor sharp chassis." Who's going to build this motor? | ||
| Swordsman |
"it'd have to make 88ftlbs at 7800rpm" So, when you hit the magic 7800 rpms, the bike goes back in time, right?  ~SM | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Froggy - Way too civilised, comfortable and practical... good for riding through fields though (Message edited by lemonchili_x1 on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Odie |
Ft_bstrd- did you find you a bike finally?  | ||
| Alchemy |
It would seem to me that the recent work on the rider comfort kit directly applies to an air cooled but larger displacement engine. Try it out on the XB to confirm effectivity in the real world and then kick it up a bit. | ||
| Ourdee |
Froggy, It needs white headers. |
