| Author | Message | ||
     Moxnix |
And H-D dealers still ain't leaned a thing. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
My Vic listed for $18,995 and I rolled it out the door for $11,750. There is a reason for the discount. Ever seen the trade in values? They drop like a rock. That new bike took a 40% plummet sitting on the floor. It's not that they aren't good bikes. They just have NO value in the secondary market. That is so true! Resale values are terrible! What I want to know is how do Harleys' seem to gain value after they are used? I was looking at Racine Harley a couple of weeks ago and saw a 2005 Harley Sportster "R" and is was on a special sale event listed for $7995.00. I almost purchased a new one back in 2005 for $7600.00 but they wouldn't give me squat for my 98 M2 Cyclone so I didn't make the trade. I'm constantly seeing used Harleys selling for more than they cost new> How is that? | ||
| Bosh |
How is that? The guy probably put $5K in chrome parts on the thing. I think the Harley market is somewhat saturated around here. There's millions of'em for sale now. Most likely due to low quality hot dogs at the dealer events. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Most likely due to low quality hot dogs at the dealer events. Just think what they would have sold for if the HD dealers served the good stuff!  | ||
| Jb2 |
FB, Yep I know the difference in values, that wasn't my point. My point was that Vic would deal and Harley wouldn't. Same list price for a Super Glide at the time but no budging on price. The days of selling Harleys for more than what was paid for is over or at least stalled for the moment. No one around here can even sell their used Harleys. There's a free book that comes out every week, Auto & RV Trader, and the same overpriced HD's are in it week after week. I've never bought a bike for resale value. I've bought bikes because they fit my desire and sometimes my budget at the time of purchase. But, in the end, I buy them to ride. Harley and their dealer network have priced themselves out of my interest. If I'm going to pay $15-$20K for a new ride I'm going to buy something that I don't see parked in front of every bar in town. JB2 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yeah, but from a resale value standpoint you are comparing a Ferrari to a Crown Vic. Of the cruisers, HD retains it's value better than any other. Or the other way to say it is that other manufacturers HAVE to discount an older model bike more in order to move it off the floor than does HD. You want to see bike languishing, look at the used VTX listings. | ||
| Jb2 |
FB, That's funny. You couldn't give a Ferrari away where I live but they sell Crown Vics as fast as they hit the lot. No doubt Harley retains their value better but I remember when you could buy a nice panhead for $500.00. It's a cyclical thing and the market is moving against what has been a standard for Harley owners since the early 90's. JB2 | ||
| Crackhead |
it's only a Harley | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Wow, I mean wow, I'd love to go fishing for you lot, you bite every time. One post with her own impressions & interpretation of a dealer, nothing too inflamatory either. And boom, you're all away personal insults & the whole 9 yards. A little post on page two to keep some bait in the water. Here we are on page three now. Time to start applying your own standards to yourselves I reckon. My mum always said "If you've nothing nice to say about someone, say nothing" So please cut out the personal crap, if you think she's trolling don't feed her, if you think she's got a valid topic of discussion, discuss it like a civilized person. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Folks, in this weak market nothing moves without some pretty heavy discounting of the price. Look at the cash for cars program- those cars languished on the lots for months... Put a $3500 to $4500 rebate on them, and they sell out in a week! The dealer markup on HOG's bikes is around 30-40%, and HOG's profit margins on the bikes are similar. Mark all the 2009s down by 20% and even bigger discounts for earlier models and the bikes will fly out of the doors while turning a profit for HOG and the dealers. | ||
| Dbird29 |
See Grumpy? A little more chum in the water....... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've stared at Jim's Vic right next to Jerry's road king... and if God himself came up to me and said "you can have either one you want free, pick the key", I would have had one heck of a time deciding which... The closer you get to either, the more detail you see and the more it grows on you... (Message edited by reepicheep on August 05, 2009) | ||
| Reepicheep |
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| Moxnix |
Back in the early 90s folk went around to lots of bike gatherings taking surveys on what the folk wanted to see in a bike. Seems to me it was Polaris looking to come to market years later with a 2-wheeled bike. Their early sport model with Marzocchi forks & dual front brakes only suffered from an eventually corrected tranny clunk. Maybe BMW flat twin riders asked for a tranny clunk on the survey. Still, I rather appreciate the Victory for being a choice. And like their looks. Resale? Trade in value? Tough times 'a coming for everyone on those points. | ||
| Jb2 |
 Reep, That bike has seen more than a few miles in the rain. I'm used to seeing the girl all wet. BTW, as my garage nears finished I'm trying to decide where to hang that most awesome sign you donated to the cause. Thanks. JB2 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The dealer markup on HOG's bikes is around 30-40% You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. I SEE the dealer costs on these bikes. You are 100% incorrect. | ||
| Doughj04 |
I agree FB, I work at a dealership as well, and you are {Buellgrrrl} way off on what the bikes are marked up. WAY OFF. | ||
| Bbbob |
The dealer markup on HOG's bikes is around 30-40% On what planet? | ||
| Swordsman |
Oops, guess she forgot there are actual H-D employees here!  Bring on the slop bucket! Negative attention addicts are my fav! ~SM | ||
| Chellem |
The dealer markup on HOG's bikes is around 30-40%, and HOG's profit margins on the bikes are similar. Mark all the 2009s down by 20% and even bigger discounts for earlier models and the bikes will fly out of the doors while turning a profit for HOG and the dealers. Now I understand! If someone really believed that, I could understand why they are offended that a dealer wouldn't deal. Unfortunately (for EVEYRONE!) that is just plain NOT TRUE. Not even close. Not remotely. Oh I wish it were, dealers could be discounting and still stay in business. But alas, no. And H-D also doesn't have the same "incentive" programs that many car manufacturers do. So a car dealer can sell at invoice and still stay afloat, with this week's incentive and that days goals and whatever. H-D really doesn't offer dealers any factory incentives like that. So when a car dealer offers "$4500 in factory incentives" they're getting some of that back from the manufacturer. When a dealer discounts, he eats it all himself. You really can't apply the same logic. ->chelleM (Suddenly wishing Buellgrlllll was running H-D. Ahhhh, 40% markup. That'd be easy street my friends.) | ||
| Froggy |
And mandated brats! No more puny hot dogs!  | ||
| Court |
This is a fabulous illustration of the problem of the internet. That statement is absolute hilarity. It is not even in the order of magnitude of being correct. Folks, unfortunately, read something like that and believe it. But before we go any further, let's apply courtesy and decorum. Please quote your source. Where did you get that information? Through and odd series of commercial hoops . . . . totally unrelated to anything or any relationship I have ever had with HD or Buell . . . I get to see the REAL ACTUAL DEALER INVOICES. Turns out that a fellow I went to school with years ago owns the company that tracks the info for HD's Wall Street analysts. He's the one who produces average days that dealers pay their bills to HD, who's late, who's in trouble and so forth. I'd never ask him to violate a confidence by providing information on a specific dealer but did ask for one set of invoices clearly showing the invoice from HD to the dealer and a copy of the payment from the dealer to HD with all the identifying information redacted. I was astounded. The figures cited at the top of this post are many times over the actual. CAVEAT: There are, I'd be willing to bet, some incentives, automakers call them "holdbacks", that improve the dealer situation a bit but nonetheless the margins quoted are pure INACCURATE INFORMATION. Court | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
So post some documentation and prove me wrong. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
No. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Buellgrrrl is a Billionaire. Buellgrrrrrl is a broke troll. Post some documentation to prove me wrong. | ||
| Chellem |
So post some documentation and prove me wrong. How about you prove yourself RIGHT? You got some invoices laying around to scan? You got some website to back up your claims? Let's see 'em. Prove ME wrong. ->ChelleM Confident she can't because *I'VE* seen my own damn invoices. | ||
| Moxnix |
Buellgrrrl is manic. Exhibits 1 through 510 are her posts. | ||
| Swampy |
Look Lady, what I am offering is some High Quality hugs, not your run of the mill girlfriend hugs, but an honest to goodness soul fulfilling hug. It will leave you satisfied, and give you many hours of curious reflection. Trust me, it is what you need. I will be damned if I will discount them though, I have studied, and practiced, and believe that what I am offering is something you need that you cannot get anywhere else. | ||
| Chellem |
Do your hugs come with brats? 'Cause I'm not interested unless they come with free food. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Is that a brat? No, I'm just happy to see you. |
