| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Are discounting dealers KILLING the brand???? and OUR resale value at the same time.... Why should a dealer bring in a bunch of stock, only to have another dealer automatically take 1000 bucks off MSRP or push bikes out the door below dealer invoice.... I want the brand to do well... I want MY dealer to be happy to carry and service Buell... It would be nice to see the higher ups in the food chain put a stop to the super discounting practice... I want as much as I can get for as little as possible too..... but what will it cost me in the long run??? Rant off.... (Message edited by Blake on June 11, 2009) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Brand killing is a dealer excuse not to be competitive with pricing. Do you trust a dealer to tell you exactly how much something is worth in both good times and bad? I sure as hell don't. When times are good, dealers don't discount at all, when times are bad, they should discount to encourage buying, if possible. Now is that time. If you're buying a bike for its resale, you picked the wrong toy to buy. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on June 09, 2009) | ||
| Anonymous |
Now is that time. this has happened with Buell for as long as I can remember I'm not talking about today. I'm talking in general. There are certain dealers that offer 20% off on HD & Buell parts on their online store, no tax, all you do is pay for shipping and that tends to be less than the local tax anyways. Good for them. crap for the local guy. | ||
| Court |
>>>If you're buying a bike for its resale, you picked the wrong toy to buy. Same deal with Porsches and Fords. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
There's dealers who offer 10% on parts and accessories just by walking through the door. How's that hurting anybody? HD is pretty good at ensureing dealers aren't sitting on top of each other. Competing dealers in some cases are hundreds of mile apart. So what if a dealer offers a discount to drive business? | ||
| Greenlantern |
Are discounting dealers KILLING the brand???? and OUR resale value at the same time.... No and resale is for houses and gold. Deep discounting does not sound that financially sound when you are talking about Buell. Usually one would deep discount "Big Ticket" items to get you in the door , bask in the halo and purchase a bunch of satellite / accessory items to make up the margins. So unless Buell is about to pull a "2010 Buell Tassel and Chrome Catalogue"out of it's corporate butt, I would tend to think these guys will weed themselves out of the network without intervention. "Soon as I get home, the first thing I'm gonna do is punch your momma in the mouth." Buford T. Justice | ||
| Anonymous |
NEW '08 1125R's for $7995.00 1000 bucks off all '09s come on down.... we are blowing the $HIT out of high prices... and the value of Buell at the same time.. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I hate to break this to you, but there's a ton of dealers getting rid of 08's for 8k. A dealer isn't selling product, so they should sit on it for 12 grand just to spite themselves? 2010 model year for HD is right around the corner, these dealers MUST eliminate product to make room for new models. If it digs into their profit, and they keep on selling, what's it to us?? | ||
| Swordsman |
Still wondering who cares what the bike is "valued" at...? Never in my life have I looked at a vehicle and thought, "Man, no way I'll buy that. It's all kinds of awesome, but I won't get much for it if I sell it." It's a bike, not corporate stocks. ~SM | ||
| Froggy |
Please explain how so? I don't see it affecting resale value at all. KBB says $9520. http://www.kbb.com/motorcycle/retail/2008/buell/11 25r/230602 | ||
| Bill0351 |
"It would be nice to see the higher ups in the food chain put a stop to the super discounting practice..." The same could be said for the price gouging that went on during the peak of demand for Harleys. Neither gouging not dumping does the brand any good, but if the average going rate is 20% or more under or over MSRP, it's just basic supply and demand at work. At the MSRP of $12,500, there are several bikes that I would buy before an 1125R. At $8335.55 out the door at Lakeshore? That bike would be at the top of my list. If the Buells aren't moving out of Harley dealers at MSRP, the MSRP is either too high, or they are being sold at the wrong dealer in the first place. Price it at $9,999.99, put a full fairing on it, and park it next to the $10,400.00 GSXR600 and I bet you couldn't keep them on the floor. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
First off, I don't pay MSRP for anything. MSRP is the "sucker price" that the guy or gal who thinks they just have to have a new bike today and is too lazy to shop around pays. Then factor in the fact that Buells are overpriced in todays market. For example, I bought a new BMW F800S for essentially the same price as a comparable (XB9) Buell. With the F800S I got a smoother engine, better aerodynamics, and ABS brakes that Buell doesn't even offer. If the Buell dealers would have offered me an XB9 for at least $1000 less than the F800S to make up for the lack of ABS I would have bought Buell. But the Buell dealers wouldn't budge on pricing and tacked on inflated charges that made the XB9 as expensive as the F800S. Those Buells selling for MSRP will pretty much loiter on the showroom floors until the dealers discount them to a price at which they'll sell. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
this topic is kinda silly. Who in the world complains cuz they get to pay a cheap price for something that normally sales for more? "oh no I want to pay MSRP for this bike instead of your sale price" If you have a problem with these dealers having a sale on a bike then let them know you are willing to pay MSRP I am sure they will not complain. and since your at it I'm willing to sell a 2000 m2 cyclone to you for its original msrp. | ||
| Teeps |
I bought a 2006 Ulysses PP used for $8500, with 850 miles, in May06. Why? There are 4 Buell/HD dealers in my area (L.A.) None would budge off M.S.R.P. where's the discount when I was looking? Where's the discount when I walk into the local Buell dealer to buy a part. I'm willing and will have to pay the price they are asking, if I want the part. I'm ok with that. But when they tell me "we'll have to order it" and oh yea, you have to pay up front in full before we will order the part. I'm out the door, I'll internet order and save the trip to back to the dealer to pickup the part. And, in most cases save some cash despite shipping... Where's the discount? | ||
| Greenlantern |
First off, I don't pay MSRP for anything. MSRP is the "sucker price" that the guy or gal who thinks they just have to have a new bike today and is too lazy to shop around pays. Then factor in the fact that Buells are overpriced in todays market. For example, I bought a new BMW F800S for essentially the same price as a comparable (XB9) Buell. With the F800S I got a smoother engine, better aerodynamics, and ABS brakes that Buell doesn't even offer. If the Buell dealers would have offered me an XB9 for at least $1000 less than the F800S to make up for the lack of ABS I would have bought Buell. But the Buell dealers wouldn't budge on pricing and tacked on inflated charges that made the XB9 as expensive as the F800S. Those Buells selling for MSRP will pretty much loiter on the showroom floors until the dealers discount them to a price at which they'll sell. _)True _)False x)Facepalm | ||
| Gnx423 |
They also need to compete with other brands from a price point. I considered triumph before getting a deal on my Xb. If the dealer wouln't move on the price, i may have ended up with a triple. Mike | ||
| Court |
_)True _)False x)Facepalm | ||
| Gowindward |
"But the Buell dealers wouldn't budge on pricing and tacked on inflated charges that made the XB9 as expensive as the F800S." Could be a "PITA" charge. | ||
| Jstfrfun |
But if you have a maximum up-graded X1 and someone says "it's only worth 3K in the blue book" and they haven't even seen it, it has been de-valuated. | ||
| Old_man |
When I bought my Buell I had no choice. (If I wanted a Buell.) It was far more expensive than other bikes in the same category, but I wanted a Buell. I paid list and all other charges, but was not charged for the race ECM, filter or Latus muffler on the bike. I was not unhappy. | ||
| Froggy |
It still is worth 3k, your best bet is to remove whatever your maximum "upgrade" is, as it only takes away from the value. It is harder to sell something that was modified as you narrow your market. Also with modified stuff, you will never get back the time and money you put into it. | ||
| 86129squids |
Heck- I don't have time to absorb all this shiznit just yet, but THIS will be an interesting thread. Carry on... | ||
| Jstfrfun |
Not modified, upgraded. Every thing that should be done, done. You see, not seeing is not understanding therefor not valued correctly. If one only goes by the Blue Book the seller is cheated. How many of you can stomach what the book says about your machine? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"Dumping" and "discounting" are two different things. If a dealer does sufficient volume and can make $100 per bike over dealer invoice and is ok, based upon the volume sold, to make that amount per bike, that's just economics. Higher volume dealers will have an advantage over lower volume dealers. Now with HD/Buell dealers, the dealer may be willing to take a small loss on the Buell line in order to have it in the store with the expectation that they sell enough Harleys to make up for the gap. The end goal is to create a relationship with a buyer who will buy other bikes down the road, buy accessories, buy clothing, will use the service department, etc. Most dealers operate each department as it's own profit center, sales, service, accessories, motor clothes, finance. If the dealer is able to quantify the cost of the discount and the potential recovery in another department, the dealer may be willing to sell close to, at, or below dealer invoice. Where a dealer gets hurt is when they sell at steep discount or below cost and receive no revenue from the other departments nor any repeat business from the buyer. You can't sell a product at a loss in perpetuity. Buell is difficult in that it is both a unique boutique line. This means that those who seek it out are willing to pay a price higher than a more "run of the mill" option (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc.). Conversely, though, this means that once the boutique buyers willing to pay the uniqueness "premium", the dealer must move the rest of the inventory into a group of people who would not normally pay that premium. Some of these buyers may be converts from other brands. If not converts, some of these buyers may be folks upgrading allowing their existing bike to be sold in the secondary market. Many first time Buell owners are buying used bikes. The entry price is lower than new and so the risk is less should the experience not be positive. Overall, I believe that if there were significant problems with "dumping", yes it would hurt the brand. I don't, however, believe that deep "discounting" on remaining stock is a problem for the brand. If you bought your bike for $12,000 in October of 2007 and they are selling 2008 leftovers for $8,000 today, you've gotten almost 2 years of riding and depreciation out of your bike. The $4,000 difference is the enjoyment you received. Thems the brakes. Price of being on the cutting edge. My friend paid $900 for one of the first DVD players that came on the market. I can get a progressive scan DVD player that will run circle around his for $99. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
NADA lists my VRSCR at about 15k, I paid 10 and would be lucky to sell it for 9. Maybe I should just hold out for 15 so I can help hold its value? •••• that. $9500.00 obo. I just don't see a guy walking into a dealership and saying, "Hey? bend me over please, I want to pay as much as possible so it helps hold Buell's value when I try to re-sell it." | ||
| Greenlantern |
I just don't see a guy walking into a dealership and saying, "Hey? bend me over please, I want to pay as much as possible so it helps hold Buell's value when I try to re-sell it." Yeah they told me you had just left when I walked in to buy mine.  | ||
| Froggy |
Huh? There is no such thing as a upgrade, only modifications. If you have a 03 XB and put on a 04 belt setup, you just modified the bike.
What do you mean *should* be done? Oil changes? I am not paying extra over blue book because the oil changes were done, I would pay less if you didn't.
You are right, I don't see how you altering a bike from stock would make it worth more, short of replacing parts with stuff made of solid gold.
And if you don't go by blue book, everyone else gets cheated.
I bought mine under book value, and I don't care what it says now. I don't plan on selling. Only reason I got rid of my last Buell was because the insurance company took her away. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Supply and demand | ||
| Court |
>>>>My friend paid $900 for one of the first DVD players that came on the market. Too funny . . . I paid over $3,500 for my first "fax" machine and my first cell phone. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the only discounted Buell I ever sold were used. Every other bike was market price driven MSRP, plus and accessories, I never had a problem selling them. Its not always I got this for X, sometimes its I traded my time and money for someones time and education to help me get the exactly I wanted. For those that are dollar shopping, there is always somebody 'selling' it cheaper. hell you can get a stereo out of the back of a trunk at the parking lot for 5 bucks... Look at that deal, you saved hundreds and you didnt pay retail. It must be a good deal. |
