| Author | Message | ||
     Old_man |
Aren't you sorry now that the Bush plan to invest Social Security in the stock market didn't go. I have some retirement invested, haven't lost a penny until I collect. | ||
| Aesquire |
Since the idea was to allow you to invest part of your SSI money, if you wanted, with no change in a retiree's deal, it was not a terrible one. Now, for example, is a great time to put money in the market. Yeah, my 401k is now a 201k. I'm kicking myself for not ignoring sound advice and cashing in my 401k this summer to buy a house. Couldn't do it now. sigh. I didn't like the Bush plan. I did think that you should, in addition to the existing Social Security ponzi deal, be allowed to voluntarily invest in the same Federal plan as Congress. That seemed fair to me. Since Bush's plan didn't pass, it sort of shows that Republics sometimes work. I'm hoping future ambitions of those who would change things in ways not to my liking don't pass either. (Message edited by aesquire on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Froggy |
I wish they would let me withdraw every dime of SS that I have paid, I know I won't be able to get it in about 40 years when I go to retire. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Social Security, FICA, Medicaid, Medicare, and U/I can kiss my @$$. If I had all the money back that they have fleeced off of me, I know my status of living would be better. Who couldnt live better with 25 % of their own money back in their own pockets. I dont trust the government to do anything but waste it, through it to some inane social program that I will never see the benefit of. (because I am male, white, unmarried, no kids, gainfully employed, and pay my bills) I should be able to opt out of it, and if I fail to plan properly, then it is on me. As it stands now, they take the money and there is absolutely no guarantee on a return, nor a return that equates to anything I would ever invest in. And for taxes?!?! if they are going to bilk me out of the money, then I should be able to tell them where to spend it. And you can bet not a damn dime of it would go to wheat mice survivability study. I know the new big government is bringing me 'change', damn pity they are taking the big bills with them as they go. | ||
| Brumbear |
Froggy 40 years wishful thinking you might have to go to 70 to retire I am 44 and we have to wait till 67 | ||
| Iamike |
I have been paying into SS for almost 40 years. I have been investing in my 401 for about 25. I still have more than 3x in my 401 that SS and I know that money is mine. I can't count on getting any money back from SS. I have heard that the Dems want to take over all of the 401ks to move the money to SS. They are pillaging thieves if you ask me. They have intentionally destroyed our health care, financial and business instituitions so they can make everyone dependent on the government. If this web site wasn't being monitored I would suggest they all be hung by a yardarm. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I have heard that the Dems want to take over all of the 401ks to move the money to SS. They wont do that until they get our guns... then they will take our 401K's  (Message edited by wolfridgerider on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I could have put 100% of my SS money into the stock market, lost 75%, and I'd STILL have more than I am going to get in retirement under the current plan. So, yeah, I'm sorry that Bush's plan to invest SS in the market didn't go through. Plus, I'd be dollar cost averaging into the market at the bottom. I could make a fortune on the 12.4% of my wage base being contributed. Maximum wage base for 2009 is $106,500. 12.4% of that is $13,206. I could earn ZERO for the next 30 years and still have almost $400,000. At a 4% earnings rate, I would have $1,600,000 in 36 years. At an 8% earnings rate, I would have $6,400,000 in 36 years. I'll take a crappy market and the ability to use MY money the way I want to. Gentlemen, this is the central pillar of what this country is all about, of what makes us great. If you believe that giving your money to the government provides you any "security" or "certainty", you are sadly mistaken. You have been duped. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Yeah, my 401k is now a 201k. I'm kicking myself for not ignoring sound advice and cashing in my 401k this summer to buy a house. Couldn't do it now. sigh. How is that remotely sound advice? Take your money out of the the markets to avoid losing big time, so you could buy a house near the peak of the market and lose a bunch of it's value in 6 months? And how can the gov't take our 401(k)s? I guess they could tax the crap out of them, but I don't see how they could just "take" them, especially since not everyone has one, and those that do put in varying percentages. If they ever do decide to take it, I will withdraw every dime that's in there and move it into a more protected private fund. I'm sure just about everyone else in the country will as well. I could likely hide that cash in a fireplace and be better off than what the gov't could do with it. | ||
| Old_man |
There are no guarantees that you will make money in the market. It's possible to lose everything. But as I have said, until you cash it in you have lost nothing. Also nothing gained until then. So, if you have to cash in now - sorry. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There are no guarantees that you will make money in the market. No, but there is a guarantee that a dollar in the hands of a politician is as good as gone. | ||
| Crusty |
I think Amzoil is better than Mobil 1. | ||
| Greenlantern |
I think Amzoil is better than Mobil 1. Interesting and sure to be open to debate. I myself believe Peanut oil to be superior to Sunflower oil except in production of Cheez-Doodles of course!  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Hey Old Man, I guess no one informed you the social security system is broke to the tune of trillions of dollars. The ponzi scheme has been exposed. The Bush plan was a feeble attempt to salvage something from a doomed system. It really is the only alternative other than doing away with social security and to think our new President, Bozo the clown, wants to add to the list of things government can't afford by providing so-called universal health care. | ||
| Aesquire |
Countersteering is how bikes turn at speed. Foot pressure is a minor effect. xl1200r, True, the housing market has dropped since summer, ( hooo doggy! ) but this summer the housing market was down, and the 401k, though dropping, was still good enough, and I'd continue to contribute to the 401k in a down market. Buy low sell high, right? I had to wait until the housing bubble burst, so I could afford to buy a house. I would have saved $200,000 in interest if I had paid off the loan last Summer. Now, I can't. I didn't because I was told it was a stupid idea. It seems now it was not so dumb. A congressman (D) has proposed taking your 401k, pegging it's value at this summer's value, setting an arbitrary (small) rate of interest on your now imaginary account with HIM, and doling it out to you with Social Security money when you retire. Don't know if it's going to happen, but they want your money. All Social Security money is taken by congress & spent. Money paid out to SSI is also taken from the same tax pool as all expenditures. With the Boomers in the pipe, taxes will have to go up towards the 75% range to pay all the obligations Congress has made. When do you get screwed? now. When does it get so bad you say "screw it, I'll go on welfare, I'd get paid enough to live on & not have to work 55 hours a week"??? I don't know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi | ||
| Ducxl |
invest social security money in the stock market. Oh yeah,great,more money for the Madoffs' of Wall st.  Same with Social Security.What happened to that "lock box"? Congress found a way into it. Same with the recent stimulus package.Our state has been spending 1m MORE per day this fiscal year than they're taking in. underfunded obligations to pension plans etc. THe Police/Teachers/Municipal workers/fire unions are all saying "Screw you" PAY US OUR BENNIES". Nearby towns have begun handing pink slips. I'm dog tired of people trying to separate me from my hard earned money  And please,do not tell me i'm just reading from my "cliff notes" i got from CNBC. Stupid comment | ||
| Xl1200r |
Aes - I'm not sure what you're getting - were you looking to refinance but now can't? I suppose if you took your cash out of your 401(k) before the market tanked, and then bought a house after, you could be ahead. And I'm with you on the housing market crash. Prices were so out of control, that if you were the type that was ready to get your first home (me), you likely didn't make enough to afford anything that was any good, or made too much to qualify for some crazy housing bill that woulsd put you in a home you coudln't really afford anyways. Now, I'm seriously considering buying my first home, and although things are really undervalued, I still can't buy a "dream house", so I'll have to settle for something older, smaller, and in need of a little updating, but I'll get one. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://thehill.com/dick-morris/its-obama-spreading -panic-2009-02-24.html I figured that housing was down enough about a year ago that I could afford a house. The stock market was down, but not the massive drop since the election, so all the #'s added up. You can cash in your 401k to pay for a house, without tax penalty. You have to remember, losses are not real until you cash out. Profits don't exist until you cash out. Back when the stock market was peaking during the 1990s, and again in 2003-2006 my fellow workers were happy with their 401k's....they were up. I kept telling them they were thinking wrong, and they should be unhappy, since unless they were retiring, and cashing out, they were buying high. Buy low, sell high. Buy a house you can afford, fix it up with an eye toward resale. Screw "flip this house"...watch "this old house". | ||
| Xl1200r |
I kept telling them they were thinking wrong, and they should be unhappy, since unless they were retiring, and cashing out, they were buying high. That's exactly my attitude here at work as well - everyone is huffing and puffing over the state of their 401(k)s - I got 45 years until I retire... this is GOOD for me! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh yeah,great,more money for the Madoffs' of Wall st. Same with Social Security.What happened to that "lock box"? Congress found a way into it. Same with the recent stimulus package.Our state has been spending 1m MORE per day this fiscal year than they're taking in. underfunded obligations to pension plans etc. THe Police/Teachers/Municipal workers/fire unions are all saying "Screw you" PAY US OUR BENNIES". Nearby towns have begun handing pink slips. I'm dog tired of people trying to separate me from my hard earned money And please,do not tell me i'm just reading from my "cliff notes" i got from CNBC. Stupid comment That's just it. I want CONTROL over my money. I could dig a hole in the back yard and bury what they are taking form me each year and I'll have more than I expect to get at retirement. Madoff didn't lose any money in the market. He never put any money INTO the market. He took it and spent it. Same with Stanford Group. What if you had 12% of your income in YOUR OWN hands? Let's say that you make $50,000 per year. That 12% represents $6,000. Let's say that instead of putting that money in the market, you used it to pay interest on a business loan. You borrow $100,000 at 6%. You use that $100,000 to buy machining equipment and open your own specialty machining shop where YOU are the boss, YOU call the shots, YOU are in control. Wouldn't that be a better use for YOUR money? Maybe you make it. Maybe you don't. Either way, though, YOU control your own destiny. Giving money to US for them to provide you with "security" provides NO security at all. Moreover is robs you of the opportunity for YOU to become all that you could be. Instead, you are working for a boss that you hate at a job you don't like for pay that is below what you are worth with no ownership or equity stake in what you help build. THAT is insecurity. Demand your power back! PS. You think for yourself far too much to be reading from anyone else's Cliff's Notes. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Very astute, Fat Man. No surprise there of course. Lots of citizens do not realize that if any private retirement plan were run like Social Security, the principals of said company would be in jail for grand larceny. As Honest Abe, another President from Illinois observed," you can fool most of the people most of the time". That is how it went, am I right, my brothers?  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
the principals of said company would be in jail for grand larceny. Madoff only stole $50B. The $90T unfunded liability represents 1800 Madoffs. Where is the outrage? | ||
| Xl1200r |
You can't have outrage when 65% of the public still think it was all a good idea. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Or just buy an old barn and convert it, file for farm aid and live out the rest of your days studying the habitat of wheat chaff mice Hell I should run for office, I think there is a future in bilking the public out of their money... just look at the long history of it. | ||
| Old_man |
It's obvious that Social Security is not a retirement investment. - It's a tax. just like all the other taxes we pay. True, the rate we pay will not meet the needs in the future. But like you told me 2 years ago, when I complained about the government spending vast amounts of money it didn't have, "the government prints the money" - well, I guess they will have to print some more. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
like you told me 2 years ago WHO told you? | ||
| Old_man |
I'm not speaking about you, but those who told me. (they know who they are)All the Bush supporters - you know, the Republicans. - The people who would be defending the spending now if they were the ones doing it.- and they would be doing it. Don't you remember how all the Republican deficit spending was defended as a good thing, that could cause no harm. After all, "They print the money" | ||
| Xl1200r |
I was a Bush supporter, but was OUTRAGED at the spending his administration did, just as I'm even MORE outraged at the spending this circus is doing now. Anyone who was a republican and supported the spending was doing so just because it was 'republican' led. In my eyes, the republican party is only slightly less liberal than the dems at this point. This is not the change we need. It's the same old crap we always had, but the guy in charge in black, so I guess it is completely different. (BTW - that was not a racist comment - I think Obama is just as $hitty as a job as anyone else - the public and the media put too much emphasis on crap that doesn't matter.) (Message edited by xl1200r on February 27, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Old_man, There were Bush supporters and there were conservatives. They are NOT the same thing. I could not freaking believe the expenditures supported and approved by the Republicans over the last 8 years. Iraq war, yeah I'll support that for national security. War on terror, ditto. Prescription Drug coverage? REALLY bad idea. TARP? WTF? One of the main reasons why the Republicans lost (and why McCain was such an abysmal candidate) was that they had abandoned the core conservative values. "Change we need" was nothing but a slogan. Unless change was a complete and total destruction of the United States for generations to come. Our children and grandchildren will never have the opportunities that we did given the current financial spending going on in Washington. I pray that much of this can be undone after the 2010 elections. | ||
| Old_man |
Yes, the so-called conservatives of today, have nothing to do with being conservative as it used to be. They spend as much as the rest. - in some cases more. |
