| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
ASP. If police carry it it works...usually. In NY batons are illegal for civilians. ( as are marshmallows, dirty looks, and being honest about politicians ) That's hilarious to me as I fight "heavy" armored combat full contact in the SCA. With a baton, I don't suck that much, but am not allowed to carry. Too bad my knees are shot & I need a sturdy cane sometimes.  | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
I just learned something... I didn't realize ASP was a brand name, I just thought it was another trade name for a baton.  Thanks for the heads up Aesquire | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Lupara? Not the easiest thing to conceal I'll admit, but it'll do the job! Load one shell with rock salt & the other with buckshot in case the 1st isn't enough. Is the compact baton thing, what we'd call a Spring Cosh in the UK? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Lupara? A SAWED OFF SHOT GUN?!?!?!?  That is the sort of thing that brings out the news helicopters  Spring Cosh Basically yes, I had one of those, the springs can do wicked damage to exposed flesh. A baton is usually a telescoping solid club. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
You chop the barrels right down & the stock too, round the ends off so it doesn't snag, it's not a lot bigger than a large pistol. Fave carry method is on a lanyard or a sling dangling under your arm in a baggy coat or jacket. Both hands when firing or severe wrist damage occurs. The double gaping orifice has a very calming effect on would be aggressors though. (I used to know some "interesting" people in London back in the early 80s)  | ||
| Hammer71 |
http://www.lapolicegear.com/schrade-tactical-baton s.html | ||
| Mikej |
"weapon enthusiasts " "Enthusiasts" implies enthusiastic about something. I'd prefer you call it "weaponry aware".  (imagelinked from http://www.real-self-defense.com/gif/umbrella-105- lg.jpg ) Look into canes and walking sticks and sturdy umbrellas, also google up "Dog Brothers" (not a recommendation, just a path to further study). And I'm not talking about sword canes or zip gun canes or any of that other Ninja Sherlock stuff. "If it ever went to the Supreme Court, I'd expect that any law prohibiting civilian possession of a taser would be found in blatant violation of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." " Look and read what the U.S.Supreme Court wrote in their decision on Heller v. D.C., and focus in on where they note something to the paraphrased effect of "in common military use". That is the current, or was the current prior to the recent elections, line of thinking relative to the 2nd. I'm not an Attorney, nor am I any form of an expert in weapons or laws relative to weapons, but I do know that I do not want to be a test case. (cue up the Beetles song about Dear Prudence here) Let prudence be your guide. "if you have to shoot, you better not stick around for the cops. " I was just last week doing some reading on this, and several of the case studies showed that the people who were justified in using their firearm but then left the scene had bigger problems than the folks who did not leave the scene. If you choose to carry then know the rules and know the dance routine if you do have to employ your firearm. Loose lips and fast feet after the fact can often lead to deeper waters. Stay out of the "felony" category if you can, but do what you have to do to stay safe and out of further trouble. There are some sites that I can't get to from here that will give you more ideas, let Google be your guide. And in the mean time start wearing a baseball cap and carrying a rolled up magazine, both of which can be utilized in your defense. Google up "southnarc" for some interesting if not controversial ideas, just as one example of a search term. YMMV. | ||
| Teddagreek |
How about a good old Fashion walking/hiking Stick..  | ||
| Mikej |
The sturdy umbrella is more Seattle and more workplace friendly.  I used to carry one bungied to the handlebars of my motorcycle when I lived there. | ||
| Blake |
"Spray? = I have seen one too many crackheads sprayed by the fuzz. It doesn't seem to effect them." NOt sure what you witnessed, but again, you need to move. If you are seeing numerous crackheads being arrested, it's time to move. There is no ignoring pepper spray. It incapacitates, period. You are likely thinking of mace, which does not incapacitate, only causes pain and like you observed can be ineffectual on someone who is under the influence. Not so with pepper spray. If it works against an enraged charging grizzly bear (pepper spray does) you can bet it will work against any human as well. Pepper spray flat out works and works extremely well; ask the NYPD. | ||
| Aesquire |
I just remembered, In NY there is a law against "brandishing" a weapon. I don't know the deal in WA, but if I saw a shady character, & displayed a weapon, baton, knife, or gun, and the shady dude was a cop or a cop witnessed the action, I would get busted. Beware. Any weapon can be used against you, if you are only trained in weapons. | ||
| Xbduck |
A walking stick with an alpine spike would get my vote. You make a statement without saying a thing. Take some self defense classes so you know how to use it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Oh, I forgot to add, that the Mayor wants to make it illegal to own, carry, pack, conceal a firearm in the city limits of Seattle. Apparently the second doesnt apply at 1st and James, or 3 rd and Pike. | ||
| Hardcorps |
Pepper spray does not always work!!!!!!!! People can build up a tolerance to pepper spray! I have been sprayed twice in the military, one full shot at work, and several cast off shots at work. It sucks but to say it is incapacitating is wrong. | ||
| Spiderman |
I put pepper spray on my breakfast burrito! | ||
| Bill0351 |
"To me, they represented the squids of gun ownership." That may be the best quote about concealed carry I have ever heard. I have no idea what the laws are in your area, but as someone who has been TASED, I can assure you, just seeing one aimed at me would be enough to scare me off. "Don't TASE me bro!" Pepper spray works on pain compliance. If your attacker is big enough, and nutty enough, it can just enrage him. (Expertise based on watching reruns of COPS! I love that show.) The Taser just shuts you right down. It's a great piece of gear, but since your baton has worked so far, replacing it sounds like your best bet. It takes balls to live somewhere that isn't small-town-safe and not hide in your apartment after dark. I would rather die a violent death than die of boredom! Then again, you don't have to die of either if you use your brains and keep your eyes open (and maybe have a baton in your pocket). Good luck with that! Bill | ||
| Blake |
"Pepper spray does not always work!!!!!!!! ... to say it is incapacitating is wrong." When doesn't pepper spray work? Please advise. Not "incapacitating"?  (Message edited by Blake on December 30, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"Pepper spray works on pain compliance." That is inaccurate. Blindness and a greatly diminished ability to breath is much more than mere pain. You are thinking of the old "mace" spray. "I would rather die a violent death than die of boredom!" Right, cause people die of boredom every day. I think most folks, if they have a choice, would chalk their choice of neighborhood up to quality of life. If it is boring to not feel at risk of violent crime in one's neighborhood, then please do call me happily bored. Compare and contrast the "excitement" of living in an area rife with drug addicts and gang-bangers, subjecting oneself and one's loved ones to a greatly increased risk of being mugged, maimed, raped, crippled, or disfigured to the wholesome enjoyment of living virtually care-free in a nice neighborhood surrounded by good honest hard working people. If you think living next to me would be boring, you really should talk to my neighbors. They'll likely have a different take on that view. I'll take an angry nest of ground hornets in my front yard over gang-bangers and crack-heads any day. Hey, I wonder if you could invent a gun that shoots those big mean soldier-bee ground hornets at people? Does one really need to subject oneself to significantly increased threat of violent crime to feel stimulated in life? Seriously? Such are the folks who like to pick fights in public. I'd rather ride a motorcycle through the middle of the Bronx and then return home for a nice backyard barbecue with the neighbors. Been there, done that. | ||
| Swordsman |
I dunno Blake, I've seen a lot of cop videos where the spray didn't do much... made 'em wipe their eyes a time or two, but didn't drop them at all. They were still rather combative. Personally, I prefer to use my amazing mind powers and make people bleed out their ears. ~SM | ||
| Bill0351 |
My sister lives in downtown Milwaukee. It isn't a great neighborhood, and after dark she doesn't go out alone very often. She loves the fact that there are tons of things to do down there. She also spends time working in one of the free clinics. That isn't always the safest place either. She just likes doing it. She's a doctor. She could life anywhere she wants within reason and she could work in any number of areas that don't expose her to homeless people and drug addicts. She likes the action. She accepts the risks as part of that. Like CM, she is single and makes the choices she makes based on that. When I had kids, I moved out to the 'burbs for them. If it was me, I would be in the city. I like it there. People slowly die of boredom every day. They don't even know they are doing it half the time. It's just a matter of outlook thought. Some people like the very things that drive others crazy. Obviously most of us choose danger/excitement over boredom/safety in at least some aspect of our lives. After all, we are posting in a motorcycling website. As far as your assessment of pepper spray? I doubt either of us has the definitive answer, but I will tell you this! A Taser makes it so all you can do is flop around and make "GGGGRRRREEERRRRR" noises. Pepper spray seems at least one or more steps below that. Anyway.... I like the idea of a baton better anyway. It's less girlie than pepper spray and probably easier to employ than a Taser. Bill | ||
| Spiderman |
That is inaccurate. Blindness and a greatly diminished ability to breath is much more than mere pain. You are thinking of the old "mace" spray. it depends on application, a lot of times, like SM said it doesn't work. Not because it isn't effective but wasn't applied correctly or a majority of the burn juice didn't get where it needed to go... | ||
| Blake |
"Not because it isn't effective but wasn't applied correctly or a majority of the burn juice didn't get where it needed to go..." Agreed, but that applies to most any form of personal defense, including firearms and taser. | ||
| Swordsman |
But not amazing mind powers.  ~SM | ||
| Hardcorps |
I'm telling you from several personal experiences, with a high quality law enforcement pepper spray dosn't always work. And it is most diffently not incapacitating! Incapacitate means unable to act! I can guarentee you I can fight through any Pepper spray that you can buy as a civilian, and the Pepper spray that the USMC uses! (persoanl experience) I have personally sprayed a guy directly in the eyes, who laughed wiped it off and the fight was on. (that was prior to tasers) The guy was high on crack and drunk. To recall he wasn't very big but man he put up a struggle. Again incapacitation to me is unable to move or act! (Message edited by hardcorps on December 30, 2008) | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Guns are used way more times to prevent a crime from occurring merely by brandishing. Actual discharging is rare, in comparison. It's the ultimate show stopper. | ||
| Ourdee |
I got maced a few times in the service. The stuff in the chamber burned and made my eyes water, it did not stop me from operating. I was working in a storage facility when a mace canister discharged into my face. It made me incredible hulk mad. Adrenalin must have kicked in, I tore the shelving unit loose from the concrete walls in the bunker. I wouldn't trust mace for anything. I haven't had the pleasure of pepper spray. However, i do like habeneros in my chili and jalapenos with the chicken. It is always best from a jury stand point if you use a common item (not considered a weapon) for defense. | ||
| Jb2 |
Teddagreek, Edward Abbey lived in the desert west and claimed that a good walking stick should be strong enough to lever a good sized rock off a persons leg or kill a man if necessary. JB2 | ||
| P_squared |
Accessorize... ASP on the belt, clip knife in the pocket, umbrella/cane/walking stick. Come to DFW sometime, and I'll tell you about "Bathroom Safety-101" which I used to teach to civilians that worked for an alphabet soup agency. As for sprays, tasers & stun guns - I've seen to many instances of failure, either because of how they were employed or because of the agressor. I like things that are simple, I can train with all the time, and always work when I need them to. My $0.02 and YMMV. | ||
| Blake |
"I can guarentee you I can fight through any Pepper spray that you can buy as a civilian" Now we're talking. You up for proving that? Will likely be interesting. Youtube is bound to get a bunch of hits. I'll buy you a beer afterwards.  | ||
| Blake |
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