| Author | Message | ||
     Chellem |
I live in NJ, and I am far from wanting everyone to surrender their guns. I'd feel a lot safer if the number of "good guys" with guns was at LEAST equal to the number of "bad guys" with guns. I know, who gets to pick good or bad, right? It's fairly simple - those who are law-abiding, protecting themselves and their families, as opposed to those who use their guns to take things away from the first group. Man, I mean, wouldn't criminals think twice if they thought people, potential victims, were at least AS armed as them? And of course, as part of the responsibility associated with the right, you should know how to properly use it to prevent innocent injuries. I know *I* would never mess around with people who have gun racks in their pickup trucks. I mean it. I don't. ->ChelleM | ||
| Just_ziptab |
"I know *I* would never mess around with people who have gun racks in their pickup trucks." They say a gun magazine laying on the seat with an empty holster is a good deterrent too.........  | ||
| Blake |
Where's Big Hairy Ralph when we need him? I need to get back in touch with that gun expert. I like the new 4.5" .45's that are out, but I'd like a .45 in +P or super. Anyone have any recommendations? | ||
| Blake |
"I said hand guns you know what I stand fast we do not need em." A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Doesn't say anything about "except small ones that are concealable or tough to detect". Sorry but handguns are just one variant of "arms" that our constitution guarantees us the right to keep and bear, said right re-affirmed recently by the Supreme Court of the United States of America. So please explain how the military and any other law abiding America should be prohibited from owning a sidearm/handgun.  You either support the constitution or oppose it. Seems like some here strongly oppose it. I'll fight you to death on that. I ain't joking. Come try and take away any of my firearms and see what happens. | ||
| Brumbear |
Just don't make em anymore and make more long guns we can do this all year long bottom line hand guns do not do anyone any good in my opinion which I am entitled to. They are really only practical for robbery or worse for anyone but the Police Agencies. However I would like to see police carry submachine guns. | ||
| Sub65chris |
wow, only robbery or worse! a more misinformed and incorrect statement I have not heard in a long time. Check out the community shooting programs in your area. there you will find the most polite and respectful people anywhere. when everyone is armed most are very polite. by the way your opinion is wrong. in my opinion. | ||
| Chellem |
Guns are disturbingly easy to make yourself. It's basically a projectile forced through a metal tube by an explosion. If gun companies stopped making guns, I mean, once all the guns were rounded up and disposed of (obviously, the bad guys would turn their guns in, right?) and ONLY police had them (none of whom would EVER allow one to disappear, right?) and NO ONE had officially manufactured guns, then, I think, bad guys would get the idea to make them themselves. They'd be cruder, and the aim would be lousy, and the chances of them hitting their actual target as opposed to random folk standing around would be lower, but guns have existed for long enough that we are NOT going to eradicate them from the collective consciousness, or from our existence. Just isn't going to happen. So sorry if I sound paranoid, but as long as the bad guys have 'em, *I* want 'em too. And yes, I consider the Government to be a potential bad guy - and a well-armed one at that. My opinion. ->ChelleM | ||
| P_squared |
Brumbear, Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are even entitled to express your opionion. It’s a RIGHT btw. But answer my question if you would please, why would I be ordered to carry concealed while conducting training/performing exercises, virtually indistinguishable from the general population, on both seaboards, if, "...hand guns do not do anyone any good..." ? Let's be clear, it was not an 'option' or a 'suggestion' that I carried a concealed, loaded handgun, to include one time in NJ. It was an ORDER. To the general population, I was just another person in the crowd, not a member of the military. WHY would I be ordered to do that, unless there is a reasonable belief that I, or my team could potentially be in a life threatening position which would require ourselves, NOT the local authorities, to resolve? Why should I as a member of the military have that available, but not the general population? Again, punish the criminals, don't punish me with your opinion. It is a RIGHT. Doesn't get much simpler than that. | ||
| Mikej |
"First shot across the bow for abolishment of the 2nd Amendment " 'twas not the first, won't be the last. Riddle me this: If there was a way to turn an otherwise law abiding citizen into a felon, would said new felon have a right to vote or to possess a firearm legally? And with that said I'll simply add the following to this thread: I am a reasonable and prudent man, and I have no criminal intent. YMMV, good day. (Message edited by mikej on December 09, 2008) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My sidearm provides me the ability to defend my life, my family's life, and the life of any citizen I happen to witness being threatened regardless of the size, strength, or capabilities of the individual conducting the threatening behavior. It provides a size manageable weapon capable of being carried on my person. The capacity for personal defense and the defense of others is worthless if it isn't practical. Even if there were no handguns produced or in the hands of law abiding citizens, criminals, who are willing to commit murder and robbery, will still have them. There are still gun crimes in the UK in spite of the fact that weapons were removed from the citizenry: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/264081 7.stm And in Australia: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s1015505.h tm | ||
| Brumbear |
How would this mess with our rights and not at least make an argument for MY opinion the right to bear arms is not what I am questioning I believe wholeheartly in OUR RIGHTS I even gave uncle sam my ass to cash the check for yours if he felt the need. I just think hand guns are useless for the general public shooting clubs are great but why not shoot different guns. If your worry is if you concead one you will concead the other I can't say I would blame you but I really feel that in general we have no need for handguns  | ||
| Swampy |
I shot one of those MP5 in 10mm a couple of years back. The FBI swat team commander used it. Two round burst....a complete joy to shoot. First shot on the X ring second shot about 12" above that. Nobody recovers from a center of mass shot. Now thats a firearm everybody should have! When the swat team shows up in your driveway you are basically screwed. From the Beatles "Some ones knocking on the door, someones ringing the bell" (Message edited by swampy on December 08, 2008) | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>And in Australia: << You don't need a gun to be 'safe from criminals' or for personal protection in Australian society. You just don't. NZ has more liberal gun laws for hunting but guns are generally for pussies. Real men hunt the wild pigs with a knife and three dogs. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd love to walk the streets with an MP5 in hand. Culturally, though, it isn't acceptable. LEO's would NEVER let that happen even if done lawfully. Here in TN Concealed Carry doesn't mean CONCEALED carry, but you will still have officers causing problems for you if they see your weapon. Sling an MP5 over your shoulder and suddenly people are nicer. I transfer my H&K over to my rental car when I travel. I made a very nervous anti-gun girl "uncomfortable" when she found out I carried. I can't imagine what an AR would do to her. Pistols allow law abiding citicens to carry while maintaining the appearence of gunlessness. | ||
| Brumbear |
Ok but if I rob you and you pull a gun out and shoot me justified by the way some hotshot lawyer could potentially convince a jury you tricked the guy into doing it like they tried to do to Bernie. With an MP 5 over your shoulder nobody I mean nobody is gonna mess with you in the first place and if they do and you shoot them OH Well. But more importantly no country would take lightly trying to invade ours when we can tote that kind of ordanance if we so desire. If I were an Infantry sqaud leader I don't think twice about assaulting a well entrenched pistol an mp5 however is gonna get my attention and this is what the Right to bear Arms was truly written for in my opinion. | ||
| P_squared |
Unfortunately, it is conceding. If you "have no need for handguns" then let's get rid of them. Find someone else who has no need for shotguns. Find someone else who has no need for rifles. It's a slippery slope and a line has to be drawn if we're to prevent the erosion of our rights. I have no wish to concede any part of the 2nd Amendment. I have uses for handguns. All of them lawful. A similar analogy: I agree with the 1st Amendment. I don't like people who make a political statement by desecrating the flag. I agree with their right to do so. I don't agree with politicians attempting to make laws outlawing such acts. Translation = YOU might not see a need/have a lawful use for handguns, but others do. You either agree with the right as stated in the 2nd amendment, or you don't. Doesn't mean you have to personally 'like' all that it entails or implies. So, I'll put you down as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment who has a personal dislike of handguns. If that works for you, that works for me, as long as you continue to support the rights established by the 2nd Amendment, regardless of any personal bias you may have based upon your personal beliefs/opinions. Now it's time to go for a ride.  | ||
| Cowboy |
As I live away out in the country I feel I have a need for guns,It would take to long for law protection to get here if I need them. I dont expect any problems here but it is best to be ready. If any one comes to my house there is only 3 reasons 1 lost 2 for visit or 3 up to no good. My dogs want let me be taken by suprise. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I love Texas. Bear, what you propose will NEVER happen in our culture. Pistols are the best we are going to get. Given that, I would prefer a pistol to nothing. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Ok but if I rob you and you pull a gun out and shoot me justified by the way some hotshot lawyer could potentially convince a jury you tricked the guy into doing it like they tried to do to Bernie. Bernie was in trouble because he was carrying illegally, because he lives across the river from you where like minded people did not allow him to carry legally. | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
There's been several shots already: (From the NRA) Dear Fellow NRA Member, In the next few days, you'll receive your new NRA membership card. The moment you receive it, I urge you to validate your new membership card as soon as possible. More than ever, we need you to stand with NRA and fight to save our Second Amendment freedoms. Because Barack Obama's campaign promise not to take away our guns is a lie. He's not even in office, yet he's fired the opening salvos in a war against the future of the Second Amendment, our hunting and shooting traditions, and YOU. Obama's FIRST attack on YOU: Appointing Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel to be White House Chief of Staff. In Congress, Emanuel earned an "F" rating from NRA, and while working in the Clinton Administration, he was known as the "point man on gun control." He is an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment and will wield enormous power in the battle for the future of our firearm freedoms. Obama's SECOND attack on YOU: If Hillary Clinton is confirmed as Secretary of State, she'll rip the Second Amendment right out of the Bill of Rights. She'll be our nation's top diplomat with the power to determine whether the United Nations will pass, and Obama will sign, a global gun ban treaty that will surrender our Second Amendment rights and our national sovereignty. Obama's THIRD attack on YOU: Nominating ex-Senator and former Majority Leader Tom Daschle-an avowed enemy of NRA-to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. NRA was responsible for defeating Daschle when he ran in South Dakota for re-election to the Senate. If Daschle is confirmed, he could hold the ultimate power to declare guns a "public health menace" and regulate away our essential liberties. Obama's FOURTH attack on YOU: Nominating Eric Holder to be Attorney General. As former Assistant Attorney General, Holder was a key architect and vocal advocate for the Clinton era's sweeping gun ban agenda. He supported national handgun licensing, mandatory trigger locks, and ending gun shows as we know them. Just recently, Holder opposed the District of Columbia's Heller decision that declared the Second Amendment an individual right. Holder also called for reviving the Clinton gun bans and, as Attorney General, would fight in court to prevent the landmark Heller decision from being made applicable to state and local governments. Worst of all, if Holder is confirmed as the nation's top law-enforcement officer, he would control BATFE and wield enormous power to harass gun owners and sue America's arms makers out of existence. Obama's FIFTH attack on YOU: In the job application for the Obama Administration, he made it clear that gun owners are second-class citizens and told 80 million gun owners not to even bother applying for a job. In the "White House Personnel Data Questionnaire" he asked: "Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage." This chilling notice to gun owners-that they are not welcome to serve in his Administration-shows the deep hostility for Americans' Second Amendment Freedoms that Obama and his Administration have in their hearts. On its face, that question endorses gun registration-a mandate in only five states in our nation-and buys into the anti-gun premise that firearms are inherently dangerous and gun owners are prone to misusing them. That's an outrageous mindset, especially for the President-elect whose sworn duty will be to uphold the U.S. Constitution, including our right to keep and bear arms. Obama CLEARLY wants to make gun registration the law of the land. First for employees under his control...AND THEN FOR YOU. Working with a Congress dominated by gun haters like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, John Conyers, Henry Waxman, and Charles Schumer!!! Rubbing salt in gun owner wounds is the Brady Campaign, which just issued a completely bogus poll claiming that two-thirds of the Americans-including 60% of all gun owners-favor gun registration, licensing of firearm owners, and other sweeping restrictions on our firearm freedoms! Add it all up and you have the potential for a Second Amendment disaster that's unlike any other NRA members have ever battled. That's why we need the strongest possible commitment from EVERY NRA member, starting today. That's why I'm hoping you'll validate your new NRA membership card the moment you receive it. Because our greatest strength is you. Only by working with you can NRA hold the line against these threats from every quarter. We are the one force that has the strength to keep Americans free and our rights intact for future generations. With you at our side, we will fight and we will prevail against all odds. Thank you for your loyalty to NRA and the cause of Freedom. | ||
| Brumbear |
here we go again just trying to make a point but you get all wack and say like minded I didn't say you can't carry a weapon I didn't even say you can't have a weapon I said I don't believe hand guns are necasarry but in NJ you can get a hand gun BTW hell I can get one in 5 min if I don't go through the non working proper channels I just keep saying again and again and again I think LONG GUNS ARE BETTER. Another thing Psquared you are right I overall believe in the second amendment and if conceading any 1 part will lead to conceading another than I would have to vote to keep things as they are because I do believe in the right to bear ARMS and I would not hesitate to use them to protect mine /yours /ours if it were necassary. | ||
| P_squared |
Glad we agree.  Ride home today was nice. Upper 60's. Get home & see this. Does me good to think I can agree w/ someone else who has served, has a differing viewpoint/opinion than mine, and we both ride Buells. Life is good. | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
"You don't need a gun to be 'safe from criminals' or for personal protection in Australian society. You just don't." Huh? http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=30&issue=015 (Message edited by hdbobwithabuell on December 08, 2008) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_2M3LrfFAw&feature =related Nah, there's no crime down under. Of course, there isn't as much here as the news want's you to believe. & very little of the 3rd world crap where there are roadblocks & ambushes, with the police not doing a thing about it. All in all our system here is remarkably free of coruption...except at the top political levels, but that's IMO. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Not sure if the laws have changed, but when I got my carry permit 30 years ago...........you DID NOT need it if you carried a handgun openly displayed in a holster. Conceal it..... and you would need the permit. One gun club member openly displayed/carried and 357 near all the time when he was on the move from his shop( safer cash transportation) to home or to the gun club( safer expensive target gun transportation). Usually never stopping at a gas station or some such thing with out taking it out and tucking it under something(had concealed permit). Once in a while he would forget that motion and said he got strange looks but never hassled about it. | ||
| Swampy |
Thats my beef with the NRA, Its not about hunting and target shooting They have been sitting on their haunches doing nothing for the last 8 years, they should have been pushing for a national right to carry, relaxing the regulations for class three firearms. If they would have been more agressive and pushed for some real extreme things it would have bought us a little more time. Why does the NRA have to be so Bambi like, they should have been like lions when they had the chance. Now expect a never ending barrage of NRA legislative alerts warning us if we don't give a bunch of money our rights are going to be taken away. | ||
| Hootowl |
forgive me if this has been posted before... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-406976153 7893819675&p | ||
| Danger_dave |
Quote statistics all you like: I live here - Normal life - Just. Not. Necessary. The Police in NZ don't even carry sidearms. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Quote statistics all you like: I live here - Normal life - Just. Not. Necessary. The Police in NZ don't even carry sidearms. Im going to tell you something about Americans but dont repeat this to anyone. As a whole we are pretty serious about are guns. We use excuses like we need them for sport, hobby or "its our constitutional right". The fact is most of us in this country know the Russians and Chinese and maybe even Cuba are working on a biological agent to use against us. The purpose of the agent is to awaken the dead so that they will rise against us for their never ending hunger for human flesh. There have been movies made about it and we all act like its just fiction here in the US but its a real scenario my friend. The only way the US can fight an epidemic of this magnitude is to stock up on firepower and ammo. So its understandable why you wouldnt need guns in your country. You guys dont have to worry about zombie hordes. | ||
| Doubled |
Aside from all of the "I need a gun to keep the gangstas off my ass" stuff. Say I am hunting elk way the hell up in the mountains of Wyoming. A grizzly bear happens by (or a black bear or a mountain lion or, hell who knows, a spaceship full of little green men) and decides that she needs to be there more than I do. My pepper spray just didn't do the trick frightening said critter away and it decides to jump me. Am I gonna be able to get my long gun up in a position to do any damage? Probably not. My 44 mag? You bet your ass I will. That is why I find handguns necessary. I am not so much afraid of being mugged or robbed as I am of being in the wrong place at the wrong time out in the hills. |
