| Author | Message | ||
     Newbuellertoo |
..Well, for me anyway. After 10 years on the line and 21 years in Management I'm taking an Early retirement package and getting out. It's not enough to actually retire on so I'm looking for work as we speak. Yes the Big three have made mistakes over the years, but up until recently they continued to build what people were buying and had the largest profit margin.(Isn't that what companies are supposed to do?) I know many are against the "Bailout", but do some research on just how much money has been given to the Off-Shore manufacturers in cash, training money, land, and tax credits to set up in North America and I think you would be surprised. Good luck to those who earn their living thanks to the Big 3 and thanks to who continue to support them. | ||
| Zac4mac |
My Pop retired from GMAC. Very nice package, will be sad to see it go away. Especially the health bennies. If I get really sick, I will have to go to the VA and beg... Guess I'm a grasshopper, not an ant. Zack | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
My benefits (and a portion of the pension package) will go away if the company does, so my job hunting is limited to companies that have health care packages. The job market is pretty scary right now so I'm getting kind of nervous, but I still think it's time to try something new while the choice is still mine. | ||
| Court |
Interesting that the "experts" predicted a loss of 340,000 jobs last month and it was darn near double that. I think few have a clue. Today's unemployment figures are the worst since 1974. But . . . ya gotta love the way the Big 3 "negotiate" . . they get sent home with their $25,000,000,000 request, told to return with a specific plan and show up asking for $34,000,000,000. Cute. Next 3 years are going to be interesting. | ||
| Libuells3t |
If congress would look at what it will cost government in unemployment and medicare payments if all the people related to the auto industry got laid off it's a bargain giving the auto companies a 34 billion dollar loan. how come they didn't ask AIG or the banks for their business plans? | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Interesting indeed! Living and working in Canada, I will not be the least surprised if any loans come with the proviso that jobs are returned to the U.S. from Canada and Mexico. Would it be a disaster for this country?... Yes! Would I understand ... absolutely! | ||
| B00stzx3 |
As much as I care about the working people in this country, screw Ford. They gave Europe the Focus RS, then they gave friggin MEXICO the Focus ST. What does the US get? A slow, underpowered Focus,no turbo, no AWD and then they killed the hatch. Screw you Ford, you get what you deserve. You gave the best cars to foreign countries and screwed your own people, traitors. I just hope all the working people get taken care of, as much as I hate to say it, work for Honda or Toyota. They seem to care about their customers and workers, unlike Ford. (Message edited by b00stzx3 on December 05, 2008) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
This is nothing new, the Bronco II, The Mustang II? Really, Detroit has been turning out cr@p since 1972, why are we surprised when it doesnt sell against competing brands with more innovative styling, performance and economy. 1965 Cadillac Eldorado 16 mpg 2008 Cadillac Escalade 18 mpg Yep, they have come a long way baby. Where the hell is my f-n buyout ? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
They are talk'n about a 4.5% mortgage loans for us.... Not a bail out, But I sure as hell would take it! As far as the auto makers.... greed has done them in | ||
| Vagabond |
I would hate to see the big three fail, but there has been a series of mistakes and miscalculations by these companies that have put them into this predicament. High energy prices and the slowing economy has only accelerated their demise. As a trade union member, even I was aghast when I saw the total hourly cost of a UAW worker. $78/hr?!! That is ridiculous. I know that my package rate including hourly rate, health insurance, pension, workers comp, etc, is approximately $50/hr. In line with what Honda pays for their employees in the US. With that said, the UAW bargaining agreement is obscene! When I don't work, I don't get paid. These guys/gals receive 95% of their regular wages when they are laid-off (up to two years)? I sincerely believe that the UAW has gotten too big and out of control. They need to be reigned in. Now, a comment like that against another trade union can get me in trouble with my union. But come on, these clowns need to use common sense and realize that a collective bargaining agreement is worthless when the company goes out of business. I do believe that trade unions have a useful purpose in the work place, but the contracts need to be written and agreed upon with moderation, not greed. Okay, I'll step off my soapbox now. (Message edited by vagabond on December 05, 2008) | ||
| Buelltours |
Really, how much did the officials give to the transplants? I would like to know. I came here to the US to build up a small manufacturing operation to supply the 3 domestic car manufacturers. We did get some state tax incentives and training grants which you have to fight to actually get because the buckets set aside are almost always empty. The tax incentives went away quicker than they came too, but this is another story. So if there is some good data comparing the fully loaded average cost per employee between domestic and foreign owned car manufacturers in the US, please share. I have not yet found any good data. Also, keep in mind that the cars with the most content "Made in USA" are not made by domestic companies. I would bet however that the cars with the most "payed hours in US" are made by domestic manufacturers. That's a big problem. If the government will somehow require competitive manufacturing processes and pay structures it will be very interesting to see what happens, I think. | ||
| Whitetrashxb |
from last year but.... http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pre ssrelease.aspx?ID=2007088 | ||
| Just_ziptab |
How come these high power/high paid CE0's don't see the future when some dumb ass like me could? I saw this coming ten years ago when gas went over a buck a gallon. Traded my Tahoe for the S-10 at that time. It was just dumb to own a horse when a pony did the same job.Thrifty,not cheap.......... . | ||
| Court |
I think you can thank the government, not Ford, for the lame domestic cars. Our laws, driven by silly special interests, really put them in a pickle. I also am a member of a union, as were my Grandfather and Father before me. When the Union started offering little more than protection to the worker and lost sight of those days when Union meant "SKILLED labor", things changed. No one asked how the AIG folks and other traveled to Washington. There is some hint of a touch of selective beating up of the automobile folks, perhaps to get back at them. There are parts of me that are philosophically against a "bailout" (yes, I know it's a loan) but the classically trained and educated economist in me can easily see some of the downstream effects of letting the companies cave in. I fear the record unemployment announced this morning would be child's play. It's a serious problem that deserves a serious and well thought out solution. We all have skin in this game whether you know it or not. I think it was Einstein who said “the problems we face today can not be solved with the same level of thinking we were at when we caused them” or words to that effect . . . | ||
| Froggy |
Slicker, both of those cars are 5000lb aerodynamic bricks. That is about all they have in common. Where did you find the info of the 16mpg Eldorado? I can't find any credible info, but most online sources put it in the high single digits. The Escalade is roomier, more luxurious, safer, faster, gets better fuel economy, handles better, and you know it will actually start if you turn the key. Why don't you compare the Eldorado with its modern equivalent, the CTS. Again, night and day difference, all the reasons I said about the Escalade. Oh yea, the 3.6L engine in the CTS puts out about the same power as the 500 cube monster, while the whole car weighs about 40% less.
I guess you have been out of the loop. Styling is subjective, so I won't touch the bland mobiles that Toyota and Honda put out. Performance and fuel economy? GM's vehicles are the best performing and get the highest fuel economy in just about every segment. The Corvette Z06 is the only 500+hp car without a gas guzzler tax. Even when broken down by brands, Chevy is only beaten by Honda. Not bad considering Honda has 0 V8s, no full size pickups, SUVs, or any vans.
Look at November sales:  Despite sales being down across the board, the F150 and Silverado are the best selling vehicles. I am digging up the year to date chart, it shows similar results. GM's problems aren't cars, its people that listen to the news and just assume that American made cars suck. Many other issues to, including unions, the economy, and the rollercoaster of gas prices. Another misconception about the "bail out", it’s not free money, it’s just a large loan that would need to be paid back. What pisses me off, is that they just had off 700 billion no questions asked to the banks, and but 3 companies want to split 25 billion and its criticisms and demands left and right. "No! You can't take a plane to Washington even though its corporate policy of most companies and ends up being cheaper! Come back with a business plan, you’re asking too little for us to give it without thinking twice!" Go ask Toyota about all the money they get from Japan, including how they picked up the entire bill for the Prius development. GM is doing amazing, despite the handicaps that have been placed against them. | ||
| 5liter |
We live in interesting times. As a Ford retiree, I've got an interest in the goings on in Washington. | ||
| Court |
I have a 2006 Ford F-150 and a 2006 Mercedes-Benz. My experience, with about 40,000 miles on each, is that they are equally reliable. I've really enjoyed both. We were going to get two new cars in May and keep the truck for when RT visits. Depending on what happens I am not at all opposed to forgoing two German cars for two American made cars, particularly with some of the deals being offered. | ||
| Jb2 |
Court, Hey we just offed the old rides for new rides. Kim is in a new Mercury Milan and I just stepped up for a new F150. It's a base model V6 but gets around 20mpg. With a tonneau cover, K&N and a Flowmaster I think I can bump that up to 22-23 mpg. Interestingly enough I priced the exact F-150 I just purchased earlier this spring and the best quote they could give me then was $6000.00 higher than I purchased it for in October. All the local dealers are hurting. They've laid off many key employees trying to keep at a break even point. It's a sad situation in some respects but we all know these are cyclical trends and the time has come for US automakers to trim the excess fat out of their operations. JB2 | ||
| Reepicheep |
My previous car was a 1995 Saturn SC2. Put 165,000 miles on that thing, with very few problems, and sold it when it started hurting my back. It still looked and ran great. It was a much better car then the 86 Honda CRX Si that preceeded it, and the 81 Honda Prelude that preceeded that. In replacement, I bought a 2001 Saab 9-3 (not American I realize, but it is a GM division). I started looking at Accord's, Camry's, Malibu's, and Impala's. The Accord's and Camry's were *stupid* expensive. People are crazy if they think a 120k mile Japanese car is worth $10k to $12k. The Malibu's an Impala's looked OK, but I was having a hard time getting excited about them, they were just as bland as the Camry's and Accords. The Saab was $7k, with 94k miles on it. You pay your money and you take your chances, but so far it's been a great experience (and I worked pretty hard to make sure it was a good one). Anyway, I'm not impressed with the Japanese cars relative to the domestics (or the Sweeds  ). My 2003 Sienna is "fine", but not as good (IMHO) as my Saturn was, and it was expensive up front. As somebody who can fix things without much drama, I would have a hard time buying *any* new car. They are all (IMHO) way overpriced. $23k for a middle of the road sedan? Not on my budget... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
So the cure to all of our problems, housing, economy, auto sector, tech sector is to kill your tv, and shut off your radio, unplug your computer. I like it, damn talking heads, lets put them all out of work. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Where did you find the info of the 16mpg Eldorado? I can't find any credible info, but most online sources put it in the high single digits" Friend of mine had one in Highschool. It was the beach car cuz we could all fit in it, everybody that went would blow 20 bucks to throw in for gas. 16 was the best we ever got. | ||
| Court |
>>>All the local dealers are hurting. Tell me about it. Local dealer employees arrived at work to find the doors changed. A recent article suggested there may be 700 dealerships closing in California. I've pre-ordered a Porsche for May delivery but have to say I am REALLY impressed with the new F-150. I've always wanted 9" more and have always had to dream about it . . now may be my chance. The "plan" was to add a car and keep the 2006 F-150. Depending on what happens, and if there is any merit to doing it, I'd give the 2006 to Son #1 and get a new F-150. My 1997 F-250 was indestructible and as fine a car as I have ever owned. I'm watching all this closely as I think we're seeing a "leading indicator" with regard to other areas of the American economy. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I've always wanted 9" more and have always had to dream about it . . now may be my chance." They make implants now. | ||
| Trackdad |
Trackdads comments: First I believe that the CEO's should have driven the best concept car that ran into Washington DC showing the country and the world the future, ie like Tucker did with his autos. I wouldn't have cared if these cars were followed by a fleet of semi's with repair parts! What a better way to ask for money. As for the workers and unions...well thats another story. Really I haven't heard the REAL story of what an assembly worker makes per hour and the cost of the benefits. But I know that the salaries are very good. My masters degree in Occupational Safety probably doesn't pay as well, but I'm happy with what its done for me. All CEO's make too much money! I don't care who they are! Pro Athletes make too much money!!! GREED!!! Cities, towns and states can't find enough General Practioners (doctors) because these doctors can't make enough to pay off their student loans... whats wrong with this picture??? Employers are consolidating positions. Where 5 people did the job now one person does it ALL!!?? All in the name of productivity...yea lets kill this one person because there's 4 more waiting for the job! Sounds like a good case for socialism, yea right. The USA was a leader in almost everything...now we're just dumbing down society where we're not thinkers we're just doers!!! | ||
| Froggy |
Actually they did this time. Chrysler CEO drove a electric Jeep, and GM CEO drove a Chevy Cruze that was using a prototype Volt powertrain.   | ||
| Court |
I'd have ridden a Buell as testimony to what American ingenuity, perseverance and . . oh yes, hard headedness can do for someone who really wants to compete. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Didn't the CEO of GM flatbed the car from Detroit to D.C., and only drive the car the last couple of miles where the cameras would be? Kinda shady, what was he hiding about his hybrid? Its a reality that I don't wanna face, and my WW2 veteran grandpa would think of as a anightmare, but the foreign car companies are winning. If Ford gets bought out by a foreign company I'll be driving by Buell everywhere, even snow. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
The Government gave Wall Street $700,000,000,000 no questions asked to BAIL OUT the wealthy. Now the auto makers need help in the form of a LOAN, and it's a "hell no". Seem strange that they don't want to help out the working class, but can't act fast enough to help out Wall Street. And for those that blame the Union Workers. Get bent. The big banks aren't Union. Why are they failing?! All boils down to one thing.....greed. Even the banks that took money in the bail out are still losing money. Guess they don't need a plan. Yes. The auto makers need to change. So does Wall Street. But I'd rather see a loan go to help keep people working than a bailout for the wealthy that will never be paid back. | ||
| Froggy |
B00, being a prototype car they didn't drive it the whole distance. For the trip they were piled in a 09 Malibu Hybrid. There is photos and documentation of paparazzi talking about how the GM CEO spent most of the trip in the passenger seat on the cell phone wearing sun glasses, and times of gas and lunch stops. But they failed to report on how many bowel movements he had. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
maybe these are the dealers that Buellgirl was saying were going to go out of business. |
