| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Matt- There's a thread on the XR1200 over at Advrider. Lots of owners and future owners seem to be looking for aftermarket exhausts, accessories, etc. (both in the US and the UK). You might post over there and let them know you can help them out: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40 8986 | ||
| Trojan |
Thanks for the link  I don't think they would take kindly to me going straight onto their site and posting a blatant advert, especially as we don't sponsor the site. However, if a current board user were to casually and inadvertantly drop the www.adrenalinmoto.co.uk web site name in to that particular thread we would of course be eternally grateful We have faxed every single H-D dealer in the US with details of our XR1200 range (Surprising just how many US dealers there are!), so hopefully the word will spread | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
However, if a current board user were to casually and inadvertantly drop the www.adrenalinmoto.co.uk web site name in to that particular thread we would of course be eternally grateful. you're eternally welcome. :-) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Further to what Trojan has already posted, in that it was conceived first & foremost for the European market, there's been the not insignificant detail of international currency exchange rates. Up until the last few months the greenback has been in the toilet compared to the euro so HD have been making hay selling to Europe, even taking shipping & duties into account, they knew there was no way they could make as much money per bike on the domestic market. Now the buck is swinging back up, it's no longer as profitable as before to export to the euro-zone, so production can now be switched to the home market with a lesser economic impact to the company, this will also mean that euro prices remain solid as supply is reduced. HD have played this one very well I reckon. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think the accessory catalog comes from "what Harley owners want". They sell that stuff for every other bike out there, so why not come up with it for the XR? We've got our first XR sold to a guy already. He is a marketing department's wet dream - hasn't seen it, hasn't ridden it, hasn't talked to anyone who has...just wants it because it is what it is, and wants to park it next to his '09 CVO Road Glide (been too long since I've been at work...FLTRSE? No more alphabet soup?). THAT is HD's marketing target, right there. I've found over the years that folks buy Harleys because they've always wanted one / aspired to own one, but never been able to for whatever reason. Folks (most of them - there are exceptions, but I have yet to see more than five myself) buy a Harley because it says Harley on the tank, nothing else. From a marketing standpoint, that's an awesome place for a manufacturer to be, and that's why HD will likely offer the "same old stuff" for the XR that it offers for everything else. Me? I'd rather work with Buell owners and shoppers. For the most part, folks walking in to look at Buell for the first time could care less what's on the tank, they just want it to work and do what they want it to. They're (we're) more interested in the bike itself, than what name is on it. Of course, those of us who buy Buell realize what a great set of people are behind that name.... | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
i think as a whole "we" give Harley owners and prospective owners too little credit for knowing their arse from a hole in the ground. sure, i can believe that many folks just want something that says "Harley" on the tank, but there's no denying H-D's record-setting sales successes since their buyout from AMF, and this success in large part has come from the fact that the machines work so well, and people, by and large, are savvy enough to know that. i grow weary of the stereotype that says Harley owners are unsophisticated and aren't making informed, educated decisions when they purchase a Harley. yep, there are some folks who fit in this category, just as there are in the sportbike category, but i think it's the exception, not the rule. Harley has done a brilliant job of marketing and manufacturing for the past 20+ years, somehow figuring out how to make their machines every bit as good as any other manufacturer's, without losing the soulful sound, feel, charisma and legacy that defines a Harley. props to H-D for making such sophisticated machines, and props to the folks who are sophisticated enough to buy one. FB | ||
| Swordsman |
I still think the new H-D is pretty slick, but the longer I own my Ss, the more I prefer it above all others. I don't think I can ever part with it now... XB's are just too damned sexy! If I was rich enough for 2 bikes, then maybe...... ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on December 03, 2008) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Jerry - much as it pains me, I beg to differ. Maybe it's my market; maybe it's the demographic; maybe it's just me....but I sell 'em for a living and I can tell you without a doubt, I sell more HDs to the "my buddy says" crowd than I do to folks like you or I. Again, from a marketing and business perspective, it's a great place for the motor company to be.... I do agree that HD wouldn't be where they are today without having continually improved their product, and ridden the crest of the "image wave" as much as possible. They are VERY GOOD machines now, and totally viable as daily transportation. I know. I've done it - my '96 FLHP took me whereever I needed to go, every time I asked it. I just finished talking to the guy who bought it from me (he also owns a 12Ss), and in the six months he's had it, he's piled on over 10k miles with no issues. Not bad for an ex-service motor with (now) nearly 75k miles! It's just a shame that most of them aren't used as daily transportation - they're used as props, dressing the set of a 'good lifestyle'. Again, it may just be my market (DC suburbs)..... | ||
| Davegess |
Actaully Mr. Grumpy has it right. At the old exchange rate HD got $15000 US dollars for every bike sold now they only get 11000. The cost to make it stays the same so the profit in Europe has gone down. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I grew up watching Friday nites under the lights, quarter mile amateur flat track all season. The lil orange XRs were always who I was rooting for. I want one, but not if I can build it more aggressive, lighter, leaner, meaner for half the price. I have two sportsters in the garage now, the buell and a scramblerbob that I am working on. ... To me that bike is more of a XLCR than a XR, it would look killer with some retro siamese pipes. Pulling the trigger will be decided on the demo. Admittedly, I am probably not H-D's marketing demographic. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Front page of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal http://www.jsonline.com/business/35370064.html | ||
| Cityxslicker |
"Thats the bike, I saw Four of those parked outside the Starbucks last weekend. You know what that tells me? There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town... Now if I had a street AMA XR750... You wouldnt be a self indulgent weiner, you would be a connoisseur Yes velvet ropes would part, champagne would fall from the heavens....Now where can I get one?" Nicolas Cage in the new Gone in 60 Seconds} movie  | ||
| Madduck |
A streetable "kit" XR750 is very doable. My best guess is you would need something in the range of $35k to get one ready to roll legally in a lot of states. Not necesarily your state. Laws do very. I have seen modern throttle body setups which replace the carbs and make the machine fairly reliable. Check japanese web sites as they are very popular over there. Most AMA dirttrackers have huge fan clubs in Japan. Jay Springsteen was working up something the last I talked with him, but US regulators were just ramping up the crackdown on EPA regulation at the time. Anything can be done. My guess is you could put the XR750 motor in the XR1200 chassis pretty easily and maybe cheaper than what has been done so far. If you are serious, I can ask Don Camlin, friend and tuner of XRs about details. He owns all the M class bonneville records in 750 pushrod class on XR-750s. | ||
| Skully |
BTW, thanks to help from Matt at Trojan, we have sliders for the XR1200 ready to ship! Keith DarkHorseMoto, LLC Protecting and Propelling Buell Motorcycles http://www.darkhorsemoto.com | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Jerry - much as it pains me, I beg to differ. hi Joe :-) yeah, i figured i'd get a rebuttal from you. hope your recovery continues to go well. :-) i can't argue with your observations, as you're in the trenches as to who buys Harleys and why, but i think i made some valid points, several of which you seemed to agree with in your reply. as for "riding the image wave," you and i know there wouldn't be a wave to ride if the machines were crap. back when i first started riding, the machines were crap. they sure aren't anymore. it's easy to hear negative opinions regarding Buells from people who've not only never ridden one, but perhaps never even seen one. by the same token, it's easy to hear negative opinions regarding Harleys from folks who are equally uninformed. sad, these people, that they must denigrate something of which they have no personal experience. i've owned five Harleys now, starting with my first, a '76 FLH Liberty Edition Electra Glide. that beast sure had a "presence," but it was, truthfully, a very underwhelming motorcycle in terms of function, fit and finish. my current ride, an '06 fuel-injected Road King, is, in many respects, the very same motorcycle, just 30 years newer. it, too, has that presence that is important to so many people (me included). it also has function, fit and finish equal or superior to any other motorcycle in its class. i consider myself sophisticated when it comes to my motorcycle enthusiasm. i've offed several well-respected motorcycles in recent years because they just didn't "cut it" for me. i've had several major distractions in my life since 2006, but have still managed to put 31,000+ happy miles on the RK in that time, and i can say, with my typically zealous zeal, that Harley made a keeper when they built my Road King. and from what i can gather studying up on the new XR, i bet it's a keeper, too. sorry for the ramble - every Holiday season i get addicted to Southern Comfort and egg nog (soy nog, this year, as a token stab at being health-conscious). i'm on my second of this evening, and my fingers seem to have a mind of their own. looking forward to meeting and riding with you one of these days. :-) best regards, FB | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I saw that Trojan has their test mule for sale.... sexy, sexy, sexy. | ||
| Bill0351 |
Hi Jerry, I think that XR is a good start. HD has made a killing by mixing and matching existing parts to make models that appeal to different parts of its demographic. They have had 15 or more years of success following that same formula. I think with Buell, Buell engines, and Buell suspension, they have some ingredients for a pile of new youth oriented motorcycles. I would love to see an XL1125R Sportster in the mix at some point. I don't see why they can't blur the lines between the two brands a little. Shave 100 pounds off the XR, give it a liquid cooled Rotax and sell it for around the cost of the XR and I might be seriously interested. A mixture of real performance with all the lifestyle stuff sounds like hit. Then again, I am already on the lower end of the existing demographic for the current line-up and my opinion is from the outside looking in. I do know that the squidley group of kids I sometimes ride with loved the look and sound of my Cyclone. Whenever I ride it with them, I get gawkers. When I showed up with my new gixxer, nobody gave it a second look. They also all wanted to go to Doc's HD's big annual party, but didn't want to ride their rice-rockets. It's like HD is right on the edge of appealing to them. They just need the power to go with the image. I'm really pulling for the MoCo to make a connection with the younger crowd even though I'm no longer a member of that crowd. Bill | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Bill, i think the MoCo's vehicle to connect with the "younger" crowd is with Buell, don't you? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
mmm younger than Harley, but still older than most sport bikers. Most of my customers are riders coming back to a sporty bike from Buell after being scared off the escalating power of the inline fours. They are a bit more seasoned in their riding and expectations of speed, handling and riding capabilities. Our average age locally for Harley is 43, for Buell its 36, about a third are women for Harley, where as Buell is more like 20%. Buell is ten to twelve percent of my annual sales, and where I like to spend my time. I like Sportsters, I seem to be collecting them, I am just not sure that it doesnt over lap what I already have. It fits a collector niche, a demo will fill out if I put a deposit on the one we have en route. And of course in ORANGE | ||
| Bill0351 |
Jerry, I do think that Buell is the MoCo's attempt to connect with a younger crowd, but I think they are completely missing the boat when it comes to bringing them into the actual Harley brand. I am only guessing at the numbers, but I am guessing the average HD guy spends 10X the cash on HD branded accessories than a Buell rider spends on Buell stuff. Even if there was more offered, a lot of guys wouldn't pay extra just to have "Buell" written on a set of leathers. If Buells were seen as Harleys, or if Harley sold a more focused sporting motorcycle branded as a HD, they could possibly introduce more young people to the brand. No disrespect to Erik Buell, but I think from a marketing standpoint, Harley Davidson made a huge mistake by not having a big obvious bar and shield on every Buell that leaves the factory. Here is an example: My girlfriend won't wear any of her Harley stuff from her past life as a RUB. She says it looks stupid to wear Harley stuff on a bike that isn't a Harley. She is probably not going to buy another HD tshirt, jacket, bandanna, pair of boots or a thong until we eventually get another HD. It may be a superficial way to choose gear, but I bet she isn't the only one who feels that way. Buells aren't Harleys and I'm not sure how many people eventually make the transition from a Buell to a HD. I just want the MoCo to succeed the way that Triumph is appearing to succeed. They have traditional standards and cruisers, and cutting edge sport bikes. All of them say Triumph on the tank. If Harley made a bike that would run with the gixxers and make young guys feel comfortable at things like that Doc's party, I dont' see a downside except that it would step hard on Buell's toes. This is just an internet conversation between enthusiasts. Neither of us has our hands on the facts and research that HD has, but I still like to throw the ideas around. One thing all of here has is a vested interest in seeing Harley Davidson succeed. I think the youth market is the key. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
good points Bill, and i can't and won't disagree. it *should* be easier for Buell to truly embrace "youthful" riders now that they've got a motorcycle that more closely approaches the high levels of sophistication and performance that is considered standard fare these days in the sportbike arena. this, along with the increased, um, "longevity" that should come from liquid cooling, which should equate to better reliability, could and should bring lots of new riders into the fold. i see your point regarding branded merchandise, but i bet a savvy H-D/Buell dealer could sell scads of Buell-branded merchandise, if only they had a Dave Stueve-clone on the sales staff. i still chuckle when he moved to Appleton, Wisconsin and they told him, "Ya can't sell Buells around here!" you're also right that this is just an internet discussion among fellow enthusiasts, and an upbeat one at that, for which you have my thanks. :-) FB | ||
| Madduck |
I think Buells relieance on the lighter colors in their apparel line puts a lot of people off. Blue has never been real popular with bikers. Black, grey, red and orange are good choices in apparel with black in the 90% choice category. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The Buell Pink Thong, scaring people out of Buell Brand since March Badness | ||
| Rex |
They will sell all they make. The european thing worked. I don't know if it was planned, but they sure have a waiting list of folks that want it. Planned or not planned? Hummm. It will definitely sell better now, than if they would have come out with here first. Yamaha sells out of their 1300 special order bike each year, and probably has sold out of their Vmax this year. I like the more standard sitting bike now. I just do not fit on the new Buells. The closest one I fit on is the new 1125 cr with the higher bars. now to lower the pegs some. My knees just do not bend up that high any more.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
}I think Buells relieance on the lighter colors in their apparel line puts a lot of people off Um....Kawi Green, anyone? Those guys (and gals) wear that lovely shade - looks like a chroma-green screen at the TV studio - all the time around here. Brand loyalty. Jerry - I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that the HD image wouldn't be worth d**k to anyone, if they didn't build competent machines. I've ridden ironheads, old FLs..and you're right, they don't even compare to the current stock. And, I'm recovering pretty well. Not as quickly as I'd like - I just wish it was *done* already - but that's a good sign. I'm close enough to feel like I can do it, which is great. Hopefully you're coming along as well I haven't hit the 'nog yet, been sticking to my usual winter bar of hot apple cider packets from the grocery store (sugar free), with an ounce of Cap'n Morgan. MMmmmm. And, 100% daily requirement of vitamin C! LOL. I had a bunch more written here about the XR, and about Buell, and what I thought...but I don't think it'd go over very well here (not with us "mortals", but with the others who watch the board)...so I'm going to keep it to myself, and leave it at this: I'm glad Cycle World, at least, gave credit where credit is due: "Stuff a highly refined and performance-oriented 1202cc Evolution engine that's been caught shoplifting over at Erik Buell's parts bin..." (8/08) Wish we'd see that in the official spec sheets. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
thx, Joe. i'm four weeks out from surgery yesterday, had another followup visit with the ortho doc this morning, and everything is nominal. :-) i, too, wrote a long diatribe this afternoon regarding the XR, Harley and Buell, but in the end nuked it as well, perhaps for similar reasons as yours. i've mentioned previously that the new XR doesn't appeal to me on several levels, but something i DO like a lot, and something i've really missed on the fuel-framers and now the liquid-coolers, is seeing the engine. a buddy of mine from Portland, Oregon e-mailed me a pic last night of his late, great, beloved '96 S1 Lightning (lost, sadly, in a nasty custody battle). it's been awhile since i've seen a Tuber, particularly an S1 Lightning, and i was gobsmacked yet again by what a simple, purposeful, and, dare i say, sexy looking motorcycle the S1 was. in large part, to be sure, because the massive, robust engine figured so prominently in its overall appearance. i've really wanted to like the XB's over the years, to no avail. one reason for this is because the engine is buried in the frame. i have yet to hammer on an 1125 variant, something i hope to rectify once the wing is fully mended. i'm absolutely sure the power will be intoxicating, and i recognize and appreciate the fastidious, world-class fit and finish. but, for me anyway, there's just very little raw sex appeal. call me old school (or old fart, if you must), but i sure miss seeing that big old lump of V-mass staring out of the frame, strong, rugged, dripping with attitude and itching to rumble. in this regard, the XR does light my rockets - that "shoplifter" (that'd make a great name for a bike) of a motor is right out there to see and behold - not even an air filter in the way anymore - and i think that's pretty damn cool. best regards, sir. you're not that far away - maybe next spring i can pay you a visit and see about getting some quality seat time on an 1125. :-) FB | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I think the accessory catalog comes from "what Harley owners want"." Yup. I just got the 09 and this thing is fatter than my XB owners manual. It covers every bike, CVO, Dark Customs and Screamin Eagle too. | ||
| Trojan |
HD has made a killing by mixing and matching existing parts to make models that appeal to different parts of its demographic. Don't think that the XR1200 is a 'parts bin special' that has taken parts from other models to make it happen, because it definitely isn't. Sure it shares the basic Sportster frame and some interchangeable parts such as front brake rotors and some engine parts of course. However, there are a huge amount of parts on this model not found on any other XL (or Buell for that matter). New Oil cooled cylinder heads (which would make a lot of sense on air cooled Buells in future) are new castings, the swingarm is all new, forks, rear brake rotor, front brake calipers, wheels, exhaust (ugh!), bodywork, instruments, and around 150 engine components (apparently) are different. There are probably more but without comparing parts books (a sure cure for insomnia) it is of course hard to say I don't know if H-D planned the launch of the XR1200 in the US when the project was first started, or have buckled to pressure from dealers to release it over there. We had to wait 2 years in Europe while they paraded the bike at every major bike show 'testing opinion' before we got it here, so maybe they had a plan all along to build expectation before launching into different markets. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Guess I will never know, ours just got gone. | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Don't think that the XR1200 is a 'parts bin special' that has taken parts from other models to make it happen, because it definitely isn't." I didn't mean the XR was a parts bin special, but even if it was, that isn't really a bad thing anyway. The key is having good parts to choose from. With Buell in the mix, they have even more to of a selection. If HD had a few new platforms that mixed classic styling with modern levels of performance, they could mix and match all day long as far as I would be concerned. I wonder how a VROD powered Fatboy would sell against the VMAX. Bill |
