| Author | Message | ||
     Damnut |
Ok guys I need some help. I'm going to make to jump and get me a DSLR camera. I've been using a Panasonic DMC FZ-50 for the last year, which is has been a great bridge camera but it's time to get something better. There are several different cameras that I have been looking at. The ones that I've been eying are the Canon 50D/40D and the Nikon D90/80D. I have also been looking at Nikon D300 Here's my dilema, I don't know if I should go with a good body like the 50D/D90 or go with a lesser model (40D/D80) and get better lenses. Another problem is that if I go with the 50D/D90 I might as well go with the D300 which is, from what I read, better than the 50D/D90. I have been seeing some good deals on the Nikon D80 because it's a discontinued model. I went to a camera shop and held the 50D/40D/D90 & D300 and I like the feel of the Nikon better as it is close to my FZ50. I know there are some good photographers on here and would like to hear what you guys think. I want to stay keep my budget around or under ~$1700. | ||
| Bads1 |
Both great brands. I use a Canon. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Nikon. Paul Simon put it in a song. | ||
| Easy_rider |
I know next to nothing about cameras. It sounds like you've done quite a bit of research, but just in case, these guys did me well in choosing a much cheaper camera. http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/ | ||
| Court |
The D300, D700 and D3 are and entirely different class of camera. In the Canon 50D and Nikon D90 range . . I, a confirm Nikon guy, would go with the Canon for the Digic processor (Canon dudes help me, the 50D does have the Digic?). Until not long ago the high end Canon was the state of the art, the Nikon D3 ($4,999) changed that. Depending on what level you are at, I'd start with a 50D or D90 level camera and put your money in glass. The good news is that there are no "wrong" choices. My Nikon preference was largely as a result of New York City , America's fashion and modeling capital, is a "Nikon Town" and I can get a Nikon lens repaired overnight and there are no less than 9 places near my office where I can, with no notice walk in an rent a $12,000 600mm lens cheap. Both are amazing pieces of equipment. | ||
| Froggy |
The latest and greatest DIGIC 4, Court  | ||
| Damnut |
Thanks Court! I am just getting into DSLR photography so you can basically call me a semi-knowledgable beginner. That's why I bought the FZ50 last year. It has SLR features with a full body but with a fixed lens. Here's a write-up of what I have now: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/ Pros/Cons and overall review. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page 19.asp I guess my real question is this, should I go with a lesser body (40D/D80) & better glass or should I get a good body (50D/D90/D300) with cheaper glass? This is where I need some help. Since I'm a beginner I get the feeling that the 40D/D80 is more that enough camera for me at this time. But I don't want something that I'll get sick of in a year or two. That's why I'm looking at better bodies as well. Like I mentioned, I would like to keep it at or under $1700. | ||
| Davegess |
The camera has very little to do with the photograph. Both are quality brands that have been around for a long time but any of the top brands take outstanding pictures. All modern bikes are better than the vast majority of riders, same is true for cameras. A good photographer can get great pictures out of a shoebox with a tin foil lens. A poor photographer gets mediocre photos out of great cameras. Shawn Higbee could beat most of us if he was riding a scooter. Don't obsess about the tool, spend you money on photo classes or good photo books. I don't mean good instructional books although those are good; I mean good photo books; Fieninger, Cunningham, Steichen, Parks, Lange. Look at the pictures and figure out why they are so good. It has almost nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the vision. Also look at magazines with good photos, Sport Illustrated, Time, Newsweek, etc. Break down what the photos do and practice. For your first assignment go out and take 100 pictures of patterns. | ||
| Court |
Easy: lesser body (40D/D80) & better glass No question. Shot this less than an hour ago.  | ||
| Vortec57 |
I'm a nikon fan. As a former full-time shooter and now a freelancer I've always liked it. No real reason why. | ||
| Damnut |
Thanks Dave & Court, your advise is greatly appreciated and you have help me make up my mind. I think I'm going with the D80 since I can get the best deal on one of those with some good lens bundles. Here are a few pics from this past week away from home.        | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
At a lesser budget, are there any specific disadvantages of the SLR style cameras with a fixed lens, like the FZ-50? (Besides the obvious fact that you're stuck with just the one lens) Vamps and I are looking to upgrade from the little automatic Kodak V530 we have to something that can be put in to manual modes, and aperture priority and shutter priority, so that it can be used for taking pics at gigs at night. Any suggestions in the $500-$750 range? cheers, chili (Message edited by lemonchili_x1 on November 17, 2008) | ||
| Damnut |
Chili, check out the FZ50 if you have a chance, it is a great camera for the price. I've been extremely happy with mine and it's served it's purpose well. The pictures above were taken with it. Heck... just wait a few weeks and one may end up for sale in the classifieds. | ||
| Damnut |
Here's a link of some pictures that I shot on the other side of the pond. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/403735.html?1223926250 | ||
| Danger_dave |
I use a basic $1200 Canon kit - including lenses. Won major prizes with it and knock out tons of publication quality shots. Much to the absolute horror of my camera store. Like DG says: It ain't the meat it's the motion. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Canon. =) I'd say start of with a 30D or 40D (I don't know Nikon's equivalent). Getting the Body Only, and then really figuring out what you would need for focal lengths.) My favorite lenses so far have been the Canon 10-22mm and the Canon 70-200mm f4L. I had the 100-400mm f4L as well and that was a great wildlife lens. I got to have fun with that one. Get ready to open your wallet, btw. Check out www.photography-on-the.net and go to their forums. There is such a plethora of information there it is ridiculous. I have learned how to take all sorts of photos from the info there. My favorite pic that I have taken:  (Message edited by brinnutz on November 18, 2008) | ||
| Danger_dave |
My 2008 style advice to any budding photog would be - Spend $500 less on the camera and buy a full licenced copy of photoshop too. (Message edited by danger_dave on November 18, 2008) | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Hello Jim, Lot's of good advice above. A few observations as a professional photographer. It is better to invest in top glass, which one normally keeps for years, and a good body, which tend to get upgraded more frequently now a days, than vice versa. A picture can never be sharper than the lens. That being said, sharpness isn't everything. I agree with Danger, that in the modern digital world, what is called "after capture" , namely messing around in Photoshop is almost as important as taking the photo in the first place. I was a "Nikon man" for many years, but have converted to Canon about five years ago when they were clearly ahead of Nikon in the digital world. Now Nikon has restructured, and have more or less caught up. Before you spend a bunch on a single lens reflex, I suggest you look at the new Canon G10. This $500 pocket camera was compared favorably to a $40,000 medium format camera, in print sizes up to 13x19". See this review in the highly respected Luminous Landscape: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml Professional photographers, (including me), bought these little gems like candy, and have been really impressed with them, and are using them for professional work where they don't need to show up with a "professional" looking camera. While I don't think I will be selling my Canon 1DsM3 and lenses anytime soon, I have had more fun with this camera than any camera I have ever had for the simple reason that it is always in my pocket, and I have taken more good pictures with it in a week, than I have taken in years. Here is a shot I took of the Whalers church. I just drove by as I have done thousands of times, and the light was just right. I had my G10 and a lightweightt tripod which I just leave in my car so I was able to take a shot I could not have taken otherwise.  Since you travel a lot, and like to take pictures when you do, this little camera might be just the ticket for you. (Message edited by Gentleman_jon on November 18, 2008) | ||
| Eboos |
damnut, I have some Nikon pro glass and flashes that you are more then welcome to borrow any time. | ||
| Court |
Funny thing . . . . . you get a group of folks, driven by a common passion like motorcycles, you quickly discover than passion leaps disciplines like a hooker beds. Jon . . . thank you for costing me $600 in the last week for Mac goodies and now a camera. Some folks, see Dave Gess and Danger Dave, have an "eye", patience and a tough to quantify sort of ability to "see". I attribute it to the name Dave but confess to having little proof. I can have a fancy DSLR in tow and Dave a banged up Leica from the day Elvis was topping the charts . . . . I come away with a picture, Dave makes art. If you've seen nothing but Danger Dave's motorcycle pics you are in for a treat, get to his website and study the landscapes he's shot. He sees things, quite obviously, that construction workers don't. There are also certain times of day, at least it seems so here in New York City, where the light just makes things spectacular. I'm currently working on two series, one architecture and the other Laundromats, and find that I can shoot the same picture different times of the day and some are so-so and other really impressive. I've stuck a couple examples, most from the last couple days, HERE you can take a look at. I've found one of the better books to be Creative Camera Control by Laytin. The other great resource you have is Badweb between EBear, Eboos, Dave G, Danger Dave, Jon, Mike in Long Island and some of our pro level folks. Don't hesitate to ask questions. | ||
| Jaimec |
I've always been a fan of Olympus, myself. | ||
| Aeholton |
Check out Steve's Digicams website. It has some great information and reviews. | ||
| Davegess |
There are also certain times of day I actually has a nickname, photogs call it the magic hour when the sun is low in the sky and filtering through lots of atmospheric haze. The light angle is interesting and the haze changes the color temperature of the light. Seeing is the single most important thing. I find that many people can be taught to see better but there are some folks who never seem to get it. Unfortunatly I have a had a few photo students who really wanted to be photographers and actually worked at it but couldn't see a picture to save their life. they could answer the questions on tests but when it came to finding things to photograph they seemed to only see boring stuff. I may have to dust off my notes and write up some lessons. I have been wanting to get my blog running again maybe I will start posting a lesson a week. | ||
| Court |
>>>>but there are some folks who never seem to get it Eat me! You guys with natural talent piss me off! | ||
| Brinnutz |
Hrm, pretty sure there's some here:  Maybe a little bit here as well:  You guys that can play the guitar piss me off  ...Do you know how many more woman I could have if I taught myself how to play...Wait, I can't afford to fix my bike, let alone a guitar. LOL | ||
| Dynasport |
Photography is my other hobby. When I spend money on myself it is either on motorcycle or photography related purchases. I happen to be a Canon guy, but I am not anti-Nikon. In fact, my greatest photography success was accomplished using a Nikon D1x several years ago. Since I can't afford the most expensive gear I will address your question from the mid level hobbiest perspective. What you will get in the more expensive cameras are a better quality build and faster response. I have an old Canon 20D. Some of the newer Rebels, such as the XSi can most likely take better photos, but I prefer the build quality of the xxD line over the Rebel line. The xxD line can also take more photos per second than the Rebels. This would not be an issue for most situations such as family snapshots or landscape photography, but for taking sports photos, or even photos of your kid in their play or little league, a high FPS is nice. What you also get with some of the newer cameras is less noise at high ISO's. There are ways to eliminate noise in post processing, but it is simpler if it is not there to begin with. Nikon seems to have an advantage over Canon in this area to some people's eyes in their newest cameras. Not enough for me to completely swtich lines, though. As far as glass goes, generally what makes lenses more expensive (and bigger) is the ability to let more light in (lower f-stop numbers also known as a 'faster lens'). Image stabilization also adds to a lens' cost. Both make taking photos in marginal light easier. Image stabilization is no substitute for a faster lens, however, when the subject of the photo is moving. I don't know if this is too basic for you or not, but there are many factors to take into consideration when buying a camera. I have learned most of this the hard way. When I bought my first slr I knew none of this. I have made about every mistake you can when it comes to buying and using cameras. If I was in your shoes right now I'd buy a Canon 40D as I have seen some great prices on them lately. I'd get the kit lens with it as they usually make that a good deal. I would also buy the very cheap (and cheaply made) 50 1.8 lens as well. It will give you a taste of using a fast prime lens. You will learn what limitations those lenses put on you and know from there what you need next. If you find yourself taking many flash photos, a nice flash with a tilt/swivel head will do MUCH better than the built in pop-up flash. If the you need wider or longer, you will learn that as well. If you want to take photos with a narrow depth of field like you can get with the 50, but want a different focal length, you will learn that as well. Have fun, photography is a fantastic hobby. | ||
| Davegess |
>>>>but there are some folks who never seem to get it Eat me! You guys with natural talent piss me off! HEY you can play guitar and I can't!!! Actually you have a good eye and take very good pictures. That good eye is the first step. There are a couple of good definitions of professional that I use. One is that a pro tosses away their marginal and poor pictures, amateurs show them off. In other words you have to learn to mercilessly edit your own stuff and that is hard to do. Second is from Julius Erving "a professional is someone who does something they love on days when they really don't feel like doing it". | ||
| Thesmaz |
A few months back I made the jump to a DSLR and decided to go with the Rebel XSi w/kit lens. I also bought the 50mm 1.8 prime lens the 55-250mm tele zoom and the 430ex flash. I haven't had as much time to mess with the camera as I'd like but I will be in the states for the next two weeks for a vacation over the holidays and hope to be able to mess with the camera/lenses more. I'm just too busy at work to devote any real time to it right now. I didn't buy off of ebay although some of those bundles were very enticing, they just had a bunch of stuff in them that I didn't want/need! I called cameta camera and they put a bundle together for me. I too considered the 40D but decided that for my first DSLR it would be too steep of a learning curve and then I wouldn't want to mess with it. | ||
| Damnut |
Are you calling me a show-off?  Hey I can play a few chords on the guitar and am a moderate drummer. What does that get me in photography? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I get a lot of great shots with a $250 Fuji F41fd point and shoot. Runs forever on a charge, and does adequate quality at ISO3200 to make a usable 5x7. Its a shame it does not have a faster lens, but it does pretty good for what it is and what it cost. Not a replacement for a SLR... but the camera that works best is the camera that you have with you, and that you are not necessarily afraid to loose or break if push comes to shove.  |
