| Author | Message | ||
     Greenlantern |
Extensive actual executive leadership experience, like Governor of a large state or executive of a large successful corporation, would be a start. I agree with the executive thing, but please define "large" State. Does that mean most of the Mid Atlantic, New England And Hawaiian Governors are not qualified? | ||
| Chellem |
OT - Sorry - but did you see those poor fraggles last night on Robot Chicken? I think I might be scarred. Back ON topic - Greenlantern - your family is a walking nightmare for pollsters. I can see those poor guys trying to do the math for that and come to some conclusion - then their heads start vibrating, then, SPLAT - just like scanners. And THAT is a perfect example of why polling helps to perpetuate broad stereotypes that often have nothing to do with how real individuals feel. ->ChelleM Also going back to work. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"please define "large" State." I assume that Nik was sarcastically referring to Palin's experience as Alaskan Governor. The size of the state shouldn't matter at all as long as the candidate has held an executive position in a public office for at least 144 days }  | ||
| Chellem |
Well, I'm not convinced that this is a "size matters" type thing. There are some small southern gulf states that had situations (disasters)that tested the governing abilities of their leaders. Even though they're not "big", the experience they derived from those events probably exceeded someone leading a large, but uneventful, state. ->ChelleM | ||
| Greenlantern |
Back ON topic - Greenlantern - your family is a walking nightmare for pollsters. They are no walk in the park for me either!  OT - Sorry - but did you see those poor fraggles last night on Robot Chicken? No but that is why the good lord gave us "Tivo"! Topic at hand.....Engage ! | ||
| Bomber |
Interesting views on qualifications posted here -- by these qualifications, neither mainstream candidate is qualified (which may be true) they would only disqualify about 50% of our past chief execs, and qualify some tragically failed leaders, but, hey, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances | ||
| Xl1200r |
Voters want to want to vote for Obama not be guilted into voting for Obama. I agree 100%. Even if I did want to vote for Obama, him playing the race card would leave a real bad taste in my mouth. | ||
| Spiderman |
Man, Obama Bidden Ladin, nothing, you guys suck  | ||
| Nik |
I was actually thinking of population size and GDP when I said that. I just think that a governor of California, New York, Texas, etc would be better prepared than the a governor of say Montana or Oklahoma (or Alaska.) Not to say that any of that would be a guarantee that they wouldn't suck. I find it interesting that the past five administrations have been lead by governors, agency directors and successful executives and this time around we have none to even choose from. (Message edited by nik on September 22, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Bomber nailed it. In my view, judgement matters more than experience. Experience with a record of good judgement and accomplishement would be tough to beat. It's sad that our nation is so divided. We truly do need a uniter. Which candidates have a record of non-partisanship and opposing their own party? | ||
| Ducxl |
Which candidates have a record of non-partisanship and opposing their own party? Ralph Nader...The consumer advocate. | ||
| Nik |
Which candidates have a record of non-partisanship and opposing their own party? Ron Paul | ||
| Greenlantern |
I was actually thinking of population size and GDP when I said that. Got it, Thank you. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I know you meant a GOOD President that may happen to be BLACK. I have yet to hear someone exclaim "You know what this country needs!?? A BLACK President !" Even I would reply, "Watchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?" Actually, no. I meant exactly what I said. The average American wants to move past the racial issues in this country. The average American desires to see minorities succeed in this country, to have equal rights, and equal opportunities. Average Americans relish in the stories of folks who were able to overcome odds and succeed. Americans cheer for the underdog and hate to see the little guy being taken advantage of. Were Obama to have different political viewpoints, there would be absolutely no stopping his candidacy. A Black candidate who appealed to conservative values, fiscal responsibility, a strong economy and fair taxes, and a strong foreign policy would be able to pull down 60%+ of the overall vote. He or she would more than likely capture 50-75% of the Black vote alone. I'd like to not be assumed to be racist simply because I'm white. The average American is the same. I'd like to remove the terms Black Leader, Black Caucus, Black-American, Black Business, Black Community, etc. because they no longer have any relevant meaning in the American lexicon. We can not do that until we can place someone in the highest position of equality nationally and globally. The average American is willing to vote for a Black candidate in spite of their political positions simply to work to move past the past. To a point. This is why my statement stands. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Which candidates have a record of non-partisanship and opposing their own party? There is a difference between being acceptable to most and opposed by most. Ralph Nader and Ron Paul are opposed by most on both sides of the isle. | ||
| Bomber |
Ft -- I agree with you on this point -- if COlin Powell were to run, I belive he'd stand a good chance of winning I'm not sure I agree with your description of the "average" American, though -- I believe you may be giving a lil too much credit to the electorate -- I've been surprised at the nunmber of folks who've told em they won't be voting for Obama for one reason, and one reason only . . . sad, but there it is | ||
| Greenlantern |
Actually, no. I meant exactly what I said. The average American wants to move past the racial issues in this country. The average American desires to see minorities succeed in this country, to have equal rights, and equal opportunities. Average Americans relish in the stories of folks who were able to overcome odds and succeed. Americans cheer for the underdog and hate to see the little guy being taken advantage of. Were Obama to have different political viewpoints, there would be absolutely no stopping his candidacy. A Black candidate who appealed to conservative values, fiscal responsibility, a strong economy and fair taxes, and a strong foreign policy would be able to pull down 60%+ of the overall vote. He or she would more than likely capture 50-75% of the Black vote alone. I'd like to not be assumed to be racist simply because I'm white. The average American is the same. I'd like to remove the terms Black Leader, Black Caucus, Black-American, Black Business, Black Community, etc. because they no longer have any relevant meaning in the American lexicon. We can not do that until we can place someone in the highest position of equality nationally and globally. The average American is willing to vote for a Black candidate in spite of their political positions simply to work to move past the past. To a point. This is why my statement stands. Was not trying to fault your point which I understood already, just pointing out that your statement is worded to point to the contrary. It states that the average American would prefer a Black President instead of a Non Black. if all things were equal which would be considered a reverse racial statement. I was just playing Editor for a moment and you have seen some of my goofy grammar! I do not play the race card here or anywhere else. My dual race existence has taught me many hard valuable lessons in life, hard to chose a side when you're not even on a team. It was not all that long ago that many people swore it would be a cold day in Hell before we saw a Catholic President! There is hope for us as a people, now if we can just get rid of this partisan ideology crap. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I've been surprised at the nunmber of folks who've told em they won't be voting for Obama for one reason, and one reason only . . . I'd consider them "below average" Americans.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Was not trying to fault your point which I understood already, just pointing out that your statement is worded to point to the contrary. It states that the average American would prefer a Black President instead of a Non Black. if all things were equal which would be considered a reverse racial statement. I was just playing Editor for a moment and you have seen some of my goofy grammar! I do not play the race card here or anywhere else. My dual race existence has taught me many hard valuable lessons in life, hard to chose a side when you're not even on a team. It was not all that long ago that many people swore it would be a cold day in Hell before we saw a Catholic President! There is hope for us as a people, now if we can just get rid of this partisan ideology crap. Understand. You read into my statement that the average American wanted ONLY a Black President. I call reader bias not writer bias.  | ||
| Greenlantern |
I call reader bias not writer bias. I'm more of a "Radial" guy myself.  | ||
| Azxb9r |
Extensive actual executive leadership experience, like Governor of a large state Funny... our current pres. was gov. of a very large state, yet he has not proven to be very competent. Like it or not, there are going to be people that vote for or against a candidate based solely on race. I would like to think that the number of people that do this is dwindling, but I know it is still a factor. | ||
| Chellem |
Like it or not, there are going to be people that vote for or against a candidate based solely on race. Maybe they'll cancel each other out. :P ->ChelleM | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm more of a "Radial" guy myself. Good. I was afraid you expanded in the middle the faster you went. | ||
| Greenlantern |
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| Xb12mel |
OK, I'm gonna be real with you guys and that's probably going to get me labeled as a trouble maker or just plain flamed on this board...but here goes: In response to the poll...no one pointed out that the poll was done on less the 2300 people and they don't mention where they were. I (as a traveling salesman) have been in towns and cities where I was the only "Black" man in town. So to interview 2300 people and make a broad assumption about the American Public is ludicrous. I would assume many of the people questioned don't know a black person personally. Therefore their opinions have been influenced by the media. Personally I strive to be a good example where ever I go. In response to asking black people the same questions, chances are high that you would get the same responses... Sure, being a little closer to the action means we have a higher tolerance, but the facts are the facts. People will do what they have to do to survive, in many cases it's easier to go with the flow then not. It doesn't make it right however. Now, will I vote for Obama because he's black? Yes. Is that the only reason? No. I am a Conservative, which means I own something, something I don't want someone else to take away with the stroke of a pen. I have voted with the Republicans for years except in extreme cases where I had to vote my conscious. To me nothing is more out of check then a person who has been in the same position for nearly 30 years. If no one challenges you for your job then you're free to do as you please. So, what would make me cross party lines this year? Because I have asked the question everyone should ask themselves: Am I better off now then I was 4 or even 8 years ago and do I think my Country is better? Fortunately, in the past, there have been what I would categorize as some real villains on the Dems ticket. So it was the lesser of the two evils. This year, I have what I feel is an obligation to my Father, Grandfather and his Father to vote for Obama. Now, don't fear this decision because the facts are... even if every black person eligible to vote did as I plan to do, there are not enough black people in the US to offset 1/3 of the white woman vote if they all choose to vote for Palin for their Mothers Grandmothers and so on and so forth. What I am saying is, if I don't then all the times I've told my children, "Yes, you too can aspire to be the President of the USA" would have been a lie, because you can't expect anyone to do for you what you won't do for yourself. I do find it funny however, that the same people who would say "try harder" ridicule you for doing so if the main reason is based on your gender or heritage. Remember, many of these same people haven't voted in the past because they feel their vote doesn't count. We should all strive to make our voice heard, no matter the color of our skin. And with that I relinquish the soap box! (Message edited by xb12mel on September 22, 2008) | ||
| Aeholton |
Funny... our current pres. was gov. of a very large state, yet he has not proven to be very competent. I guess it depends on perspective. I'm not that disenchanted with him and think he has done an admirable job. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Mel, Great post! I believe this is precisely why J.C. Watts is voting for Obama. I could completely see why someone would vote for a candidate even though you didn't share political beliefs. It was the same with the first Catholic President. | ||
| Chellem |
This year, I have what I feel is an obligation to my Father, Grandfather and his Father to vote for Obama. I'm not sure that it's "racist" to consider that as ONE of MANY reasons. We're human, after all, and we can't ignore our gut feelings. I think that as long as everyone considers more than just that ONE factor (and it is a factor, one among many), whether that factor is race, gender, or age (all of which are technically protected by anti-discrimination laws) I think people need to weigh that against all the other factors. Would I vote for a woman? Oh yeah. Hillary? Uh, no. Not because she's a woman, and not despite it. IF I vote for McCain, it will not be because he's white, or because he's a man. But I have to admit I've considered his age - something I'm not allowed to do as an employer in the private sector. Interesting. I probably won't vote for Obama. Because he's black? No. Because he's a man? No. Because he's too young? No. Because I just don't think he can do everything he so eloquently says he can. Once everyone realizes that people are more than the sum of their personal demographics, the world will be a happier place. And I thought you expressed your opinion very eloquently. Not QUITE to the backfire board yet. . . this thread has lasted longer than I thought it would. ->ChelleM | ||
| Chellem |
What I am saying is, if I don't then all the times I've told my children, "Yes, you too can aspire to be the President of the USA" would have been a lie, because you can't expect anyone to do for you what you won't do for yourself Actually, there is something that bothers me a little bit about this sentiment. And I hope that no one takes what I'm about to say too personally. Voting for someone because he's black (or a woman) kinda sets them up for potential failure too. What if he is dangerously under qualified, as some have said? What if all black people vote for him - even if they believe he's not quite ready, or even if he doesn't speak to their personal ideals - and he turns out to be not very good at this job? Won't it immediately give all the racists - the true racists, white supremacists, etc. - the perfect excuse? The perfect rallying cry? Couldn't it possibly send the entire equality operation into reverse? THAT would be my concern in voting my race (or gender) instead of my beliefs or my political affiliations. I would need to honestly believe he (or she) was the best person for the job. So as long as everyone who votes black (or female) purely on that basis also truly believes it's the right choice, then I don't think it's racist. But to vote a gender or race against one's better judgement I think is a bit different. OK. That's all I have to say. Thanks for your patience. ->ChelleM | ||
| 4cammer |
People are aware that he is half white, correct? I find it racist that he is described as an "African American". What about the other half? Or is that not politically expedient? The hell with his color. It is his socialist views, disdain for the unborn and questionable fitness to be Commander In Chief that will keep me from voting for him. |
