| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
I have to agree with 46champ on the media bias against American products. My wife and I have been looking at getting a new car that gets good fuel mileage, as her commute to work is 40 miles each way. A recent article on the most fuel efficient cars never mentioned either the Ford Focus (35 MPG) or the Chevy Cobalt (36 MPG) but did include two imports that got 34 & 33 MPG. Why didn't Cycle World include the Blast in their recent Economy bike article? My daughter's Blast gets an honest 70 MPG in Real World riding situations a mix of city riding combined with 75 MPH highway. I really don't put much stock in anything the rags say any more. (Message edited by Crusty on August 17, 2008) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Generally, there hasn't been anything for the mags to write positively about American Sportbike manufacturers. Have the tubers been on par with say a Ducati or a Triumph? Have XB's been on part with Hondas and Yamahas? Has the 1125R been on par with the RC8 or 1098? Is there ANY US sportbike company on par with what is produced elsewhere (HP, reliability, engine, resale, price, etc.)? I think the US motor journalists WANT to have a bike that they can brag on. They just don't want to become Motorrad where it's Deutchland Uber Alles; it doesn't really matter which bike is being tested, the BMW is going to win. Please, please, please don't misunderstand my point. I am not bagging Buell. I feel that there is not another company on the planet that has the potential to become THE world leading motorcycle manufacturer. The 1l25 suite is the closest that Buell has come so far to that goal. So far in the racing arena, it's holding it's own handsomely. The fueling issues are legitimate. They are not being overlooked by Buell. The speed and attention with which Buell handles nearly all issues (yes I know they took a little time with the headlights) vastly rivals their competitors by leaps and bounds. It just seems to me that the large issues (frame redesign, engine, cooling system, styling) tool all the time and attention and that the ECM got last billing. It's almost as if all the time and money was spent already and the fuel tuning was done on the budgetary sly (bill them for paper clips and use the money for overtime). I have no doubt these issues will be worked out. The problem is that you only get one chance to make a first impression. That impression has been compromised. Again. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I do not commute on a motorcycle, I do not race a motorcycle and I surely do not sit in a parking lot somewhere waiting for someone to look at me on my bike. What I do is ride a motorcycle for fun and enjoyment and I could not care less what the motorcycle magazines say pro or con about my fairly new 1125R. Even with its very small quirks, (I happen to have a good one as many do), I enjoy this bike more then I have any I have ever owned and thats considerable. "Built from the rider down" it has in spades. Time to ride and have the most fun I have ever had on two wheels. Bob | ||
| Rick_a |
Underlying everything said above is that Buell doesn't create anything to fit into established classes or categories. That's something I've always liked and respected, but something that doesn't help them in the press. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Don't take this personal, but ANYONE who orders a 1125r or the new 1125cr, must be deaf, dumb, blind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window. I am. That statement is plain ignorant. My 1125r runs wonderfully.  | ||
| Koz5150 |
Flip me the finger, say what you want. But death by the kool-aid is your choice. The facts are out there and published, if you choose to ignore them that is your choice. But don't come whining back here in 6 months when your bike continues to stall, sputter, and buck like a horse. I don't think the mags are out to get anyone, and they are rooting for Buell, or any other american company out there who wants to take on the world. At this point I am paying close attention here http://www.fischer1.com/ P.S. 46Champ.. if you believe the fix is close for the 1125r answer me this. Why did the latest long term review of a stock '08 Uly have to get remapped twice and it still stalled and ran bad? The XB series has been out for 5 years! As far as the 1125r is concerned read more of the article I cited. Make sure Buell sends in a fix for the MELTED plastic body parts from the "hot" bike and also address the fuel that was leaking onto the frame. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The 08 is a "new" design from the standpoint of fuel map and ignition timing. I believe the plastic was "deformed" not melted. Known issue. Engine heat is also a component of fueling. | ||
| Koz5150 |
In the picture in Sportrider, it is definately melted. | ||
| Cochise |
Don't take this personal, but ANYONE who orders a 1125r or the new 1125cr, must be deaf, dumb, blind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window. Don't take this personal, but you are a douche bag. Nope, I don't own an 1125R. | ||
| Blake |
Ken (Koz5150), I don't know what burr got under your saddle. Putting all your faith in the views of a few biased moto-journalists is about as far from "the facts" as you can get, almost as lame as basing one's views solely upon what one may read on an internet forum. I'll try to answer some of your questions and rebut some of the most inaccurate of your statements. "Is fuel mapping rocket science?" Yes, actually it is. Apparently you're not aware of the plethora of troubles that other sport bike manufacturers have also experienced with new EFI systems. Simply do a google search various combinations of "fuel injection problem" and any of "BMW", "Ducati", KTM, "Triumph", etc, etc. I doubt any single manufacturer has remained immune from such issues. But yes, the science involved in creating EPA compliant, high performance motorcycle fuel mapping is indeed much the same science employed in the design of rocket engines. The rocket engine folks are fortunate though in that they need not concern themselves with strict emmissions requirements. "I just don't get it." Join the club. I think what you are really saying is that you are disappointed to see a motorcycle magazine having to evaluate a Buell motorcycle that did not run well. I feel the same. However, leaping from that to a sweeping condemnation of the brand is simply not valid reasoning, especially when the publication is well-known for its anti-Buell bias. "they questioned whether it was worth it" Of course they did. Their gold standard, their basis for sport bike evaluation, is HP/cc and $/HP. They made it perfectly clear in their correspondence to me that nothing but the IL4 repliracers or dirt cheap Japan Inc entries a'la SV650 ever need apply for their endorsement as being "worth it". So now you know. "they said Buell told them they were still working on new fuel maps that will be sent to dealers. Keep your ears open." That is very old news indicating that the magazine testing was conducted suite some time ago. It might be nice if they would apprise their readers of the date of the testing. "They also commented how as the bike heated up it was sweating fuel onto the frame while at stoplights. Nice feature???" As already stated by our own Rick_A, they likely over-filled the fuel tank. Apparently, this is the kind of complex issue that can befuddle the journalists at Sport Rider. "In an unrelated article in Motorcyclist..." I strongly question your "unrelated" assumption. Sport Rider is closely tied to Motorcyclist. I believe that they even share staff. They are not unrelated, nor is their attitude towards Buell Motorcycles over the years. "after two attempts by the dealer to remap the fuel system, the bike would still stall and stumble." Which dealer? "ANYONE who orders a 1125r or the new 1125cr, must be deaf, dumb, blind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window." "I am a Buell fan and do not want to be accused of being a hater." Your unfortunate tone and choice of words read exactly like those of a hater or someone seeking to malign and damage the good name of Buell Motorcycles, certainly not like the words of any kind of fan of the mark that I know. Maybe you are just frustrated and let your emotions get the better of you? Suggest you take stock of your words, the tone they imply, and the true source of your emotion/frustration. "If it is blown out of proportion then answer this: 1. Every mag that reviewed the 1125 at the orginal press release commented how test bikes were stalling, overheating, and running ruff." Buell made exceedkingly clear to all at the original press introduction that the bikes were not yet ready for production and that certain fueling issues were still being ironed out. For some reason you missed that, or the magazines failed to report it. Either way, a clear anti-Buell bias would need be involved. "2. Every review I have read to date comments about the fueling issues below 4,000 rpm. (not echo's, actual lengthy reviews)" I've read the same about many other sport bikes. Your point is?... Buell has long since announced free product improvement program concerning the fuel mapping, meaning they've addressed the issue and made available the solution to all 1125R owners. Maybe there are more to come, I don't know. "3. Why would they (Sportrider) comment that Buell is still working on updated fuel maps if there isn't a problem?" It's likely that they (Sportrider) didn't bother to check on the status of that work prior to sending the article to print and also that the article was based upon testing conducted some time ago. Such is the nature of print journalism. "we (US sport bike guys) have a bike we are supposed to believe in" Personally, I don't "believe in" any motorcycle or any material thing. Sometimes our belief systems may benefit from a serious objective review of what really matters in life with an associated aprisal of those things that we commit ourselves to believing in. For me, believing in a motorcycle is not one of the high priorities. I just like to ride them. "and it just doesn't measure up to other bikes for the same price." Baloney. Pure utter baloney. You've ridden one, no?   "If i was taking a trip and spent $12,000 on a Buell. I am not sure I would feel confident that I would make it home that day without an incident of some sort. You shouldn't have to say that about a new bike." The Goldwing owners with the broken frames thought so too, but their concerns were based upon actual personal experience. The wonderful series "Long Way Round" showed how even the most revered of BMW's adventure bikes found a way to leave itself stranded with a broken frame. Stuff happens to commerical products, but that stuff isn't necessarily the definition of the product. "For those of you above who own one, more power to you. However, I would love to talk to you in 5 years to see if your bike still runs, whether you still have it, and what you would say about your time on it." Wow, such a Buell fan, implying that no Buell owner is likely to remain enthusiastic about his/her purchase over time. That is nothing but pure troll dung. "P.S. I would like to ride one" Good so far. "...however my local dealership (a former 2 time Pegasus award winner) is considering dropping the brand." Lame excuse #1. "They currently do not have a Buell salesman on the floor so I wouldn't even know who to talk to about taking it out." Exceedingly lame excuse #2. Here's an idea, ask someone. "Besides, I have no intention of owning one becuase they are butt ugly (with the cr version looking like the bike is going backwards or the "hardbags" are mounted on the front) so I don't feel right putting miles on what should be somone elses bike." Lame excuse #3 coupled with yet more derision. "If anyone actually buys it..." Implying yet again that one would need be "deaf, dumb, bind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window" in order to purchase a new Buell 1125R or CR. "I know I have brought up the fuel thing multiple times before, only in the hopes that BUELL will fix the problem." What problem? You don't even own a fuel injected Buell motorcycle, yet you are on a personal campaign to convince Buell to "fix the problem"?  I personally know way too many folks who have purchased new Buell XBikes and have just plain enjoyed the heck out of them, both on street and track, to give your misplaced concern any credence. "I don't think the mags are out to get anyone, and they are rooting for Buell" Yet folks here, owners of the bikes you seek to trash, say otherwise, disagree outright with the conclusions you are making, and according to you they are "kool aid drinkers". I think you owe the fine folks here a huge apology and the moto-publications in question a lot more objective scrutiny. "if you believe the fix is close for the 1125r answer me this. Why did the latest long term review of a stock '08 Uly have to get remapped twice and it still stalled and ran bad?" Possibly poor and/or incompetent dealership support? Of course you've probably never heard of such an issue before. I have, and way too many times. "The XB series has been out for 5 years!" Some accurate facts: Actually Buell dealerships are now offering for sale the seventh model year of XBikes, spanning from model year 2003 through 2009. The XBikes have been in dealerships now for over six years, since April of 2002. You've not ridden the bike? No Buell since the S1 Lightning is worth your respect? You've not ridden the 1125R? "But death by the kool-aid is your choice." You imagine that you are an objective recounter of facts? How many of your friends ride 1125R's? I have at least three, (DTX, Zac4mac, CCRyder) each of whom reports that they are delighted with their 1125R. A fairly significant number of other 1125R owners have refuted your dim views in this very thread. Your response is to stand by and defend your dim views, though you've not ever ridden the bike; you cling to the reports of motorcycle journalists, some of whom work for publications who have a record of being overtly hostile and biased against Buell Motorcycles (Motorcyclist & their sister rag, Sport Rider). You even went so far as to tell an 1125R owner who is perfectly happy with his purchase and who reported that his 1125R runs fine that "don't come whining back here in 6 months when your bike continues to stall, sputter, and buck like a horse." "The facts are out there and published" Some folks only pay attention to the "facts" that fit their own personal views and/or agendas. "ANYONE who orders a 1125r or the new 1125cr, must be deaf, dumb, blind, or have $12,000 to throw out the window." ... "they are butt ugly (with the cr version looking like the bike is going backwards or the "hardbags" are mounted on the front)" The above is indicative of a personal view/agenda. You've not ridden an 1125R? Thanks for the entertainment. | ||
| Blake |
As to Harley-Davidson fuel mapping, sure, if you want to have a bike that runs like a cruiser, not a sport bike, that might be a viable alternative. You might start by comparing/contrasting the state of tune of any Harley-Davidson to that of a Buell. | ||
| Greenlantern |
Hey Blake, would you mind just once in a while keeping your damn fingers idle and leave the facts for the hippy truth seekers out there? Damn! what a way to ruin a perfectly assembled thread of hearsay and conjecture! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I hear aliens like cow anuses. | ||
| Crusty |
I hear aliens like cow anuses. That's a lot of bull. | ||
| Tm74 |
I hear aliens like cow anuses.  Only when motorcycle rags approve of the anuses in question. | ||
| Rainman |
Uh, I'm not sure that we should blame the moto mags for issues that are pretty well-known on this site and in other tests. Personally, I love my Blast. I also loved the XB Ss that I test rode and I would buy it if I had the $. For me, the Ss surging a bit and acting funny was no big deal: I had a souped up 89 1200 XL that burped, belched and farted at low rpm parking lot speeds and then jerked you off the seat when you fed it fuel. I loved it. I also find the Blast's quirks endearing, even having to replace the damn boot at 6,000 miles, a $10 part that failed and left the bike on the roadside. Thanks to this website I was able to fix it myself. My friend with Ninja 500 hates my P-3. I don't care. As for the press, when the issues of fueling are resolved, the bike's superb handling -- which has always been noted in the reviews I've read -- will then take precedence and that's all we'll read about. In the meantime, ride the hell out of your bike before every speed racer in town discovers how much fun it is and you are no longer special. | ||
| Hexangler |
Unfortunately, most companies operate like software manufacturers these days. They release a "product" and then get customer feedback to make improvements. When I was working in the printing industry as a drum scanner operator and color separator, I got very frustrated with certain dumb mistakes made in programing. After a while I stopped calling Heidelberg, Apple and Adobe with bug problems, because every time I was right in pointing out a problem with their products, they treated me as an annoyance. I decided my observations would be somebody else's, and left the bug shooting up to them. Low and behold, I would wait until the next version came out, and the problem would usually be fixed. It's the way it works now. Products are very complicated. User feedback is part of the engineering and troubleshooting loop. I have ridden the bike (1125r), and thought it was great fun. Too bad for Buell and its first year of reviews on the 1125r(it's about 50/50 from what I've read). At least they got the bike out, and the CR is comming! A lot of great designs never make it to market. The next few years will be awesome for Buell, me thinks.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I read Blake's response to all of this and have just one question.....How in the hell do you make blue text? | ||
| Rainman |
Just look up top next to the  faces where it says color and add a } | ||
| Swordsman |
Whoa. For Blake:  ~SM | ||
| P_squared |
Had my 1125R on the track yesterday. My only complaint is in regards to the stock front brake pads started squealing like a stuck pig. They still work though. My coach gave me HUGE thumbs up for my line and his last comment was, "I can't believe you could keep that bike on the race line that well, you were VERY smooth, and you hit ALL of your marks exactly the same every lap. I can't believe a Buell could do that." Time to get another cup 'o kool-aid and order some EBC pads before next month.  | ||
| Josh_ |
Had my 1125R on the track all weekend. Had lots of people look at the bike. I constantly pointed out the local dealership had a display there and was giving away track days with bike purchases. Fielded several questions from guys who have read all the magazine reviews. "Yes, the brakes work fine." "Yes the fuel injection is fine over 4k RPM." "Yes it isn't perfect under 4k but Buell fixed my 99 S3T (their first FI) over the first summer of ownership and they have a great track record of fixing issues." "This is my sixth Buell and I came back to Buell from Yamaha." I'm not a big fan of the solenoid/active intake, but once removed it sure runs smooth on the track and street. The 07 ZX6R I rented for a day in May wouldn't exceed 13kRPM, 1 hr later it wouldn't exceed 10k RPM (power band is ~10-13.5). Head mechanic knew right what it was, apparently a very common problem with those. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
}Thanks much Blake. | ||
| Bigdog_tim |
I too have an 1125R. This is my 4th Buell (still own a Blast and an M2). I too have been a little dissappointed in how long it is taking to get the new maps out. I got my bike in December - and was really hoping the April flash fixed the low idle problem. I am a pretty active participant on badweb - and was very familiar with each and every post re: 3-4K stumble. My dealer is awesome - but typically I know more about what is happening on the Buell side then they do. At least I get the "news" faster than they do. I phoned customer service to ask directly - when can I expect my only issue with my bike to be resolved? The experience was actually a COMEDY of errors. Not sure EXACTLY how it happened, but I ended up talking to an operator (not a tech) who for reasons of their own, gave me some wierd info. The operator did take my contact info so that a tech could follow up. In the 1125R thread, I posted about that call. The next day, the tech phoned me - and was happy to confirm that a new map was forthcoming, the time frame was based on how long the homogobulation (not the right spelling - but basically the government's approval) took. I was thrilled. The day after that, the same tech phoned me back and was very worried that somehow I was confused about what was said. It seems that many of Buell's senior people do indeed read our posts, and the tech I spoke to actually was talked to by Erik himself. I assured the tech I was actually reporting on the operator's comments and not his. I subsequently added to my post. Moral of this rant? Motorcycles to me are complex: a source of recreation, transportation, an item to be collected, and more. BMC has continued to manufacture products that fit my personal complex requirements AND stand behind the products they make. I should charactorize my dissappointment a little: I am sorry that not every 1125R had the stumble problem, I am sorry that the EPA and related agencies have such a major PITA process for approving these kinds of adjustments, and I am sorry I have gained 12 pounds since Christmas. If every 1125R had the stumble problem, they would have never released the product. The pre-production one I rode in September at an Inside Pass event did not have the problem. It did have a nasty hot right foot problem (which was fixed before they released the bike). If homogobulation was quick and/or easy, the patch would have long since been at the dealerships. If I quit drinking beer, I would loose those 12 pounds. Ok - now back to your regularly scheduled programming. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Sometimes the problems are not just with the manufacturer. There may be unforeseen factors preventing the resolution of the problem by the manufacturer. | ||
| Hexangler |
How in the hell do you make blue text? Don't get 'Chinashop started too.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There's always one slow kid in the class.  "They's something wrong with his medula oblongata!" | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I get this error when trying blue text,,,HELP. "Error Formatting Error The formatting code blue requires 1 argument(s); you provided only 0 argument(s)." | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
wait! | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Boooyahhh |
