| Author | Message | ||
     Bking |
I think HD got the deal of the year buying MV Agusta for only ~$225 million. No way could they launch a new bike line comparable to MV Agusta for so little money. With Harley’s prowess as a great marketing company, I see nothing but good for the MV Agusta faithful. How about having a REAL parts and service network, with accessories and swag. But where does that leave Buell? I think cruiser sales has finally reached the saturation point. HD needs to sell more bikes. Their stock performance has been poor lately. You would think an investment in Buell would gain needed market share increasing HD's bottom line. Future Harley growth needs to include new younger riders to the flock. Maybe the purchase of MV Agusta was just too damn good to pass up. I am dreaming about a HD type network of dealers featuring Buell/MV Agusta. Maybe a Buell/MV love child could be forthcoming! ---Bob | ||
| Teeps |
I think the best thing for Buell, would be to move them out of the uninspired Harley-Davidson dealers, and into existing M-V dealers. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I hope to be very wrong, but I wonder how much real cross pollination we are actually going to see. MV was a hell of a deal, no doubt. Remember, though, that Ducati was also on the table. I think HD hopes to increase European show room space for HD bikes to increase HD sales in a market where HD lacks complete saturation. If MV can continue as they have done and HD not have to cough up any operating capital, I think that is the scenario HD is hoping for. There aren't enough MV show rooms to make that much of a difference for Buell, so hoping that they are transitioned away from HD dealers to MV shops will make them even less available not more. Buell would be a better fit in an MV shop, but not by much. The same people who would never give Buell a look in an HD shop would never give Buell a look in an MV shop. A Ferrari buyer isn't going to be interested in a Camaro regardless of how cool the Camaro is. I'm afraid that this is more a European market play than anything for us. Look at the market release of the XR1200. Appears to me that it wasn't even planned for US release until the HD faithful pitched a fit. The growth money for HD is not in the US. Given the exchange rate, the Euro is startin' to look pretty tasty in Milwaukee. | ||
| F_skinner |
MVs and Buells are sold side by side at Pikes Peak HD/Buell. They have opened a branch called Pikes Peak Motorsports. Right now it is a section of the same showroom shared with HD and OCC with plans to move it to a separate building. MV, Buell, Aprilias, a South Korean bike, Guzzis and scooters share the same space. I guess they are trying to get the sportbike riders market but never really got a grip on the Buell market. I would not buy a T-shirt from them. Of course they don't have Buell T-shirts or anything else but you can get the latest OCC Chopper T-Shirts there. I have a feeling a poor Buell dealership will also be a poor MV dealership. What a shame, in the early to mid 90s they were a great Buell dealership. Those days are long gone since the new owner took over. The greatest Buell salesman is an enthusiastic Buell rider. This dealership is not enthusiastic about Buells. I bet MV gets the same treatment. Great move by Harley and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Sorry for the rant. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This is what a Buell Dealership Owner should look like: Tom Bumpus, Bumpus HD/Buell Track Day Addict Soon to be BW sponsor If you don't live, eat, and breathe sport bikes, you have no business selling them. Period. Anything less is simply foolishness. | ||
| F_skinner |
If you don't live, eat, and breathe sport bikes, you have no business selling them. Damn Skippy!!! | ||
| S2pengy |
Also keep in mind that the import duties/taxes on HD/Buells keep the bikes out of a lot of hands, assembling the bikes in europe could make it alot cheaper... Kinda like Honda assembling the Goldwing in the states (yea I know there are now moving it to Japan).... | ||
| Froggy |
Ft_bstrd you pic aint loading, you need to be a member of that site. | ||
| Gtmg |
This is a great question. We tend to look at it what is HD doing for Buell. The real question from a corporate point of view is what is Buell doing for HD? What are some other's thoughts? I am not convinced that buying an in trouble MV Augusta for 250mm is a great deal. They would not have made it for another two years. My question is what would have Buell done with a $100mm investment?? Would HD been ahead really investing in Buell. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Here's the pic:  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The other question is what could Buell have done with $225M of operating capital? Hell, what could Buell have done with an extra $25M of operating capital? Acquiring MV wasn't about MV. Acquiring MV was about HD. They wanted shelf space for Harleys in Europe not shelf space for MV in the US. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
The other question is what could Buell have done with $225M of operating capital? REALLY bold new graphics? Seriously tho, the MV deal was indeed an easy way to gain dealerships for the chrome couches in Europe IMO. | ||
| Trojan |
They wanted shelf space for Harleys in Europe not shelf space for MV in the US. I cannot believe that is true. Take a look at just how many H-D dealers there are already in Europe and you'll see that adding a few more would not be worth that investment (if that was what it is about). There are already H-D dealers in every major city throughout Europe, so a couple more would make no difference. Also, all of the H-D dealers are franchised, not factory operated. If H-D are to benefit from the aquisition of MV then it must be in MV's undoubted technical ability and design genius. Let's face it, putting their designers to work on the next generation 1125 would certainly be a sensible move  | ||
| Oddball |
Need to title that pic, maybe with that motivational poster bit. Competition: It can be lonely waiting for them to catch up. Competition: When some get here, it might be interesting. Competition: It's lonely at the top. First to the track, first across the line From early morning silence, to listening as they whine. Or, staying with the idea of a dealer/brand promo. Even on his day off, you can't pry him off a Buell. Days off?? Oh, you mean my weekly track days. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Gee, big crowd in. | ||
| Oddball |
That's the AMA standing room only sort of crowd. Complete with chirping crickets. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I know what I could do with $25 mil operating capital. I'd start a motorcycle party - and I don't mean politics. | ||
| Oddball |
Can see it now. The worlds largest biker party. The uncontainable frenzy spreads from state to state. In hopes to quell the human wildfire, officials have lit their own back parties. But ovaltine and 45's of Pat Boon are having little effect.  (Message edited by Oddball on August 18, 2008) | ||
| Slaughter |
I think of Cagiva, I think of scooters and small displacement bikes. I think of MV, I think of Hailwood and times past and current failures to make a profit on pretty bikes. I'm betting on small displacement motorcycles in the future. I think the MV thing is incidental... much as we'd like to think otherwise. It's about time to re-start a 2009 speculation thread again. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"The other question is what could Buell have done with $225M of operating capital?" Developed a liquid cooled power plant here in the US. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"It's about time to re-start a 2009 speculation thread again." That's an easy one Steve, an 1125 Uly type bike should be next. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I just had the image of the typical HD mechanic working on a MV... YIKES! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I just had the image of the typical HD mechanic working on a MV... YIKES! This is why I don't think you will ever see an MV on the typical lukewarm HD dealer's showroom floor. There is no way they would pay to have someone trained to do the mechanical work. Just wait until a brand new tech ruins an expensive part and the dealer has to pay to replace it. (Not a knock on HD techs, but it's the difference between the mechanic at the local Chevy dealership and the mechanic at the local Lamborghini dealership) | ||
| Gtmg |
I just don't see the deal as a way for Harley to get in more showrooms in Europe even though that is what was said. Like was stated before they are in every major city with franchised dealers already. Now this might and I mean might help their franchised European dealers slightly. Being in the corporate world for a long time there is more to this that we see. Like I stated above they could have made have the investment in Buell and probably doubled the line or more.....It would have least answered two of the major calls where Buell and HD have line holes...dirt and sport-tourers. If you look at MV it does seem to fit the HD image well. Great looking bikes at high prices. It would be very easy to see HD's marketing muscle behind them. I want to ask the question for you. If you were the CEO or HD and asked the question: What is Buell doing for us? What do you think the answer would be? How would you want Buell to interract with us. I don't think the current pattern is set up for long term sustainability. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
225 M in capital? It would have been one HELL of a dirt bike. | ||
| Jlnance |
I think the best thing for Buell, would be to move them out of the uninspired Harley-Davidson dealers, and into existing M-V dealers. While that may be the best thing for Buell, I don't think it's the best for HD, which is ultimately what that decision will be based on. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Horsepower to beat the Jap bikes. Plain and simple! We need some American muscle to smack the imports around. On a youth note, I'm 22 years old, never been a bike owner. I loved the Firebolt, and bought one and qill stick with Buell from now on! Hows that for marketing. | ||
| Swordsman |
I mentioned this over on the 1125 section, but what I'd LOVE to see is H-D handing MVA to Erik and saying "Run with it." I don't suppose that will be the case, but it'd be pretty darn cool! ~SM | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd love to see it as well. Good luck with that. | ||
| Tm74 |
MV and Buell seem like an odd fit. MV makes low volume boutique bikes, and only 2 at that(Butale and F4). It's not like they have a range of bikes and technology. If Erik could pull over some of the engineers for a project it would be interesting to see what would happen. I just can't wrap my head around why they would do it though. I'm not sure about Cagiva. Are they even producing bikes? Is the Mito still around? |
