| Author | Message | ||
     Baybueller |
After over 30000 carefree miles I noticed 2 things the other day. 1, the engine sometimes makes a rattling noise and 2,the warranty ran out last week. On the older Harleys, the lifters sometimes failed to pump up properly so we always changed over to solids. The noise sounds like valve train and Im wondering If any of you have had lifter issues. Bike is 03 lightning. Thanks, Robert. | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
I ride an 02 X1 Lightening and have thought I should go to hydro-solids. Yes, it is noisy but so are all the others I've heard. Sure its the lifters you hear? | ||
| Baybueller |
Noise seems to be in that area but of course it wont act up when Im off the bike listening. | ||
| Hexangler |
Are you sure your primary chain is properly adjusted? A loose primary will make some funny noises. I have a 1999 Sportster XL12S with +60K. I thought the bottom end was going out, and then I adjusted my primary chain. Purring right along now. | ||
| Baybueller |
Just checked it the other day. Also considered the compensating nut but the noise comes and goes. Biggest mistake was running to the store with a half helmet,damn big difference in sound over a full helmet. | ||
| Hexangler |
Just saying that I have never had a stuck lifter with +60K miles, but anything is possible: New torque specs on crank/stator nut on newer Buells? Changed your oil lately? checked oil level? Switch to synthetic? Oil pump gear? Good luck. I'd just put that full face back on, and maybe get a set of earplugs. | ||
| Tramp |
Run the scoot in neutral- if the sound rises and lowers w/engine speed, it's not your primary. Lifter noise is common in hi-milers: solution? Much as I would w/any car w/hydro-noise, I ensue that my gasoline is good (creates 'float' condition) and that it isn't simply the ambient heat creating any float condition. Big difference in sound between "float" (hollow, marbles in tin can rattle that increases with temp) and hydro-seizure (ticking and tapping) Once I've ascertained it's hydro-seizure, I add "hydro-valve kleen or naptha, or even a few ounces of lacquer thinner to the crankcase, and run the engine around the block to operating temp- the noise should subside once the thinner has allowed the particles responsible for seizing the hydro to flow out. Change your oil (& FILTER!) immediately after noise subsides, and consider re-changing, again, shortly thereafter. This procedure has worked for my scoot, each time it's hydros spoke their piece, every 50 k or so. I'm at or VERY close to 220,000 miles, at present, and my lifters sound great, only because I've hit them with (3 oz of) MEK, Toluene or Naptha when the noises would set in. Just remember to change it out, imediately upon cessation of lifter/valve-train noise, and remember, as well, to use good, heavy oil on high-mile evos in high heat. I run straight 60 during this and next month (Message edited by tramp on July 23, 2008) | ||
| Bombardier |
Tramp, Why would putting the bike in neutral and revving it prove it is not in your primary? The primary is attached to your crankshaft and will rattle more when not under load if it is loose. | ||
| Tramp |
i'm more-than well-aware of this- however, with the gearbox in neutral, the unladen primary rattle stays constant, regardless of engine-speed, while valve-train tap and fricative rises and lowers with same... hence the ugly rattle we hear in neutral, which dissipates under load, despite same RPM. (try it) | ||
| Ezblast |
Could well be detonation. EZ | ||
| Tramp |
..which is why i mentioned 'float'... | ||
| Baybueller |
I will look into the float condition as the noise is similar to your explanation. I guess dealing with the occasional problem beats adjusting the pushrods regularly. | ||
| Tramp |
If it seems at all like possible float, try a fuel additive (Just for finishing off your present tankful) for octane boost, or simply find some good racing fuel ( I prefer VP, but cam 2 still rocks) and top it up with that, or w/avgas. If that takes care of the issue, just watch the quality of fuel you use, and spend the few cents more for higher octane. I know that's a can of worms with many, but with det. issues, high-octane will often be the final word. | ||
| Spatten1 |
How do you go to solid lifters? Do they come with adjustable rockers? | ||
| Tramp |
You buy the whole "shooting match" from JP Cycles, typically w/adjustable pushrods. Unless you're running a true track machine (and making money at it) it's a tad extreme for the Buell mill. Not saying it's a "bad" idea, just...extreme. | ||
| Buellfighter |
I'm all ears on this thread! I'm also experiencing a noise similar to Bay bueller's. The other day I changed my oil and filter and immediately after starting I now have a distinct ticking noise from, I'm assuming, the valve train. I even tried another filter for fear the one I originally installed was bad.  | ||
| Tramp |
Just add some lacquer thinner to the oil ( a few ounces) run it up to temp, under normal load, until sound dissipates, then immediately change oil out , as thinner will also dislodge much grime and coke from your crankcase walls, and run machine, again. Rechange oil after a day or so of running with this new crankcase-ful, as well, and change filter both times... | ||
| Jb2 |
My experience (with 100's of thousands of miles collected on Sporty motors) is that the primary chain WILL make noise if it's loose and neutral won't make a difference. If it's loose it'll talk and hang with the engine revs. If it's never been adjusted it could well be your problem. Having said that, the lifters on all XL based engines become noisy over time. Heat adds to the situation too. Not sure I'd add thinner to a 30K motor(?) even if it was just to clean it out. It only take a few seconds of running to scorch a bearing or a ring. Lacquer thinners today aren't paint quality and contain a huge amounts of chlorinated junk fillers that will harm aluminum components. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I used to have a tick that I thought was lifter bleeding down, but I accidentally figured out it was a header leak when I R&R'd the pipes for polishing. A new exhaust seal made it go away. It sounded just like a metallic 'click'. | ||
| Road_thing |
Jb2: Lacquer thinners today aren't paint quality and contain a huge amounts of chlorinated junk fillers that will harm aluminum components. Could you elaborate on this? I've had a heck of a time getting primer to stick on a set of tanks, and I'm wondering if this could be my problem. rt | ||
| Spatten1 |
Thanks Tramp, that makes sense. much cheaper and cleaner to make an adjustable pushrod than new rockers with adjustable tapets. My bike makes tons of top-end racket. I use ear plugs, they've been an excellent solution so far. | ||
| Jb2 |
RT, Not sure what type of primer you're trying to use. Not many lacquer related products available anymore with their high VOC content. If you're starting with clean, bare-metal tanks use a self etching primer before applying fill/sand primer. DuPont makes an excellent rattle-can version(A-4115S) that saves you a lot of time and money. Apply two transparent(THIN) coats and allow to flash before applying your fill primer. Most fill primers don't have very good etch qualities and will lift without an etch coat. JB2 | ||
| Road_thing |
Thanks, Jim! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Boy, if you ever get bored JB, it would be *great* to have a basic write up in the knowledge vault for how to get a decent rattle can finish on a typical part. I played with it on the KLR tank, and it turned out better then I thought it would (relative to the fact I had no idea what I was doing), but did not last well. | ||
| Tramp |
Ummm...JB2- at near 220,000 miles, One would think my engine would have failed, by now, due to all of the lacquer thinner treatments it's had. It hasn't...in fact, it runs very well. Further, the solvents don't screw with the aluminum in the same way that caustics do. Modern lacquer thinners do little, if any, damage to aluminum, esp. in an anaerobic condition, such as in an oil-bath. If they DID, they'd be effective at priming aluminum, which they're not; hence Zinc Chromate, etc. Toluene, kerosene and MEK (Methyly-Ethyl Ketone) are all used for degreasing aluminum cases, safely. You may confusing caustics (High Ph) & corrosives (Low Ph) with solvents. Again- my mill's fine, after many, MANY years and miles of using this stuff.... Reep- the key to a good rattle-can paint job lies in temp at application, and wet-sanding of top-coat. Oddly, simply performing good wetsanding of a rattle-can topcoat (say, 600, followed by It's downright shocking, how great a rattle-can job can turn out, after good wet-sanding and buffing (Message edited by tramp on July 24, 2008) Tramp-I'm sure you meant "1000", right? I fixed it for you. (Message edited by road_thing on July 24, 2008) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Everything was going great (doing pretty much what you described) until I got to the clear coat. Even the clear coat looked great, but it was incredibly susceptible to damage. Makes me wonder what the best clear coat is. | ||
| Jb2 |
Hey Tramp, If you've done lacquer treatments on your high mileage Buell with no problems then more power to you. There isn't such a thing as "modern lacquer thinners". Most of them today are recycled and contain chlorinated solvents. If you worked around a shop very long you would have met someone who mistakenly left thinner in their aluminum cup for several days only to find pitting in the cup and the fluid passages. If it were my bike, lacquer thinner is the LAST thing I'd run in my motor. But hey, what would I know? I've only been doing this all my life. Reep, If you ever need help with paintwork you give me a call. I might even drive down and give you a hand.  JB2 | ||
| Oldog |
Tramp said ( I prefer VP, but cam 2 still rocks) and top it up with that, or w/avgas. For years when engines could be run on leaded fuel, Avgas that was redily available and was considered a performance booster ALL aviation fuell unless specificaly marked UNLEADED is LEADED there are 3 common grades Red 87 octain "low octain" Blue 100 octain "LOW LEAD AVGAS" Green 100 octain "Regular avgas" if you run Avgas in an 03 or later buell at the least you will ruin the 02 sensor and may fowel the plugs lead build up is a common problem in light training aircraft and if its bad enough the heads must be removed for cleaning My 0.02$ no avgas, no lead racing gas for detonation testing would be ok IMO I would also check & adjust the primary chain to be sure that your noise is not chain slap. | ||
| Oldog |
one last thought, putting MEC or other chemical solvents into the oil for sludge removal may be benificial But what effect does it have on the rubber parts that seal the pushrod box (03 & later) and or pushrod tubes figure that it could fail the oil filter, crank seals, rocker box top gaskets what effect would it have on synthetic oil? change oil frequently and change the filter I switched from HD to Mobil1 20-50 mc oil and have noticed a difference in how much better the noise levels from the valve train are, | ||
| Tramp |
Like i said, oldog, I've done this for years, and my engine's at around 220,000 miles. My scoots a '96, so no O2 sensor...and, frankly, it likes lead. I fly, as well, and have NO problem finding unleaded avgas. |
