| Author | Message | ||
     Alligood |
An update - I spoke to the dealer and Buell. The dealer was balking because we didn't have a record of the 1k service. Buell was kind enough to research the VIN and tell me was sold new at San Diego Harley Davidson. They verified that they had performed the 1k service. I called the local shop and gave them the info. The local shop service manager is at a Harley show and the service tech/warranty person was not able to make a commitment other than to pass a message to the service manager. By the way, engine oil was fine, primary drive oil was low. So far, all involved have been helpful. | ||
| Jlnance |
I spoke to the shop. They will not honor the warranty because the primary drive oil was low. We don't have service records, so I don't know what to do next. I think I will call Buell directly. I suspect they just don't want to do the work. How many miles are on the bike? I don't think you're supposed to change the primary fluids until 5 or 10k miles. There isn't a dipstick on the primary. If it ran out of oil and it doesn't have enough miles to have had the first primary change done, I think it's pretty clear that it isn't your fault. | ||
| Tramp |
" They cannot void your warranty for performing your own maintenance, unless they offer you the maintenance free of charge. " that is an inaccurate statement. If the customer waives scheduled run-in service interval oil changes, the customer risks voiding terms of warranty | ||
| Tramp |
" They had no reason too. Aprox 15k on the clock. It was a bearing issue in the clutch release(prolly my fault from too many wheelies/burnouts). " so, you haven't HAD an engine failure issue that would involve the engine oil and filters you purchased, for self-service, so you don't actually know if this would have voided warranty for an engine issue. Incidentally- properly executed burnouts/wheelies place little load on the clutch bearing.... bearing issues are more often a result of riding the clutch...  (Message edited by tramp on July 21, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
Alligood- I'd suggest contacting Court on this board...He's hitting a near-perfect average with consumer assistance, here... All gratis, in the name of helping fellow Buellers | ||
| Alligood |
Again, thanks to all here. I want to say that I have been impressed with Buell's cooperation. They led me to the store of origin, San Diego Harley, who were kind enough to fax the 1k service report to my local shop, and the local shop seems to be cooperating now that they know the 1k service was done. The service person in the local shop voice-messaged his manager at the Harley show, and now I'm waiting for a response. The local shop was forthcoming when I asked them to read me their write-up. The service tech mentioned piston, con rod, stator, flywheel, main bearing, and some other pieces that I have forgotten. Sounds to me like the whole engine ass'y is toasted. Thanks for all the help. Good bunch of folks here on the board. John (Message edited by alligood on July 21, 2008) (Message edited by alligood on July 21, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
They are legally obliged to provide you w/service doc.s associated with your unit's VIN. There was nothing "forthcoming" about that. They're stating that your primary level is down, and that, coincidentally, both your top and bottom end are toast? Make copies of this most-recent RO, and fax it to Buell, as well. TIME FOR A SECOND OPINION FROM ANOTHER FACTORY-AUTHORZISED SHOP | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
"By the way, engine oil was fine, primary drive oil was low." what exactly was the damage that warrants a $2500 repair bill ? damage to the cases , crank ? my guess is that the dealer knows that he can make way more money off of you than a warranty claim . if you're not familiar with the inside of an engine motorcycle or otherwise , do you have any friends or aquaintances that are? take them with you to the dealer along with a digital camera and ask the service manager to show you what he's found and start documenting things . the more information you can provide us the more we can help you . sometimes you have to fight these things and letting the dealer know your not going to be a pushover is a start . just my 2 cents worth . lol several posts since i started typing my reply . low primary and the top ends toast ? hey lets see if they can convince buell that now that they're going to be stuck with a warranty claim  (Message edited by woody1911a1 on July 21, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
Hear here! What Woodrow said  | ||
| Alligood |
Hey, I appreciate all the advice. I'll get some documentation and pictures, but I want to wait until the local shop says yea or nay on the warranty - I don't want to get them riled up as long as they're still working with me. We have a saying here in Texas - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If y'all are ever in Austin, drop me a line and I'll tell you the local watering holes. There are some real scenic rides around here too. Just don't come now - it's 100+ degrees. John | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
"The service person in the local shop voice-messaged his manager at the Harley show, and now I'm waiting for a response. " message probably went as follows : "hey Fred we've been caught on the Alligood deal . they're on to us . what do i do now ? " document everything . dates times and every word of every discussion as it flows starting now . if it winds up in buell court or in real court it will mean way more than a brief summation of your recollections from memory . oh and keep us posted | ||
| Tramp |
Woody posted: " message probably went as follows : "hey Fred we've been caught on the Alligood deal . they're on to us . what do i do now ? "  } (Message edited by tramp on July 21, 2008) | ||
| Bads1 |
Good luck John. I think you handled it just right. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I've read the warranty a few times due to previous 'concerns' with a Ford dealer in the past. Basically, I had a K&N air filter and I had clutch issues in the car (known issue for my model with a TSB issued and all) and it took many visits to get it cleared. Once, they threatened to void my entire warranty over an air filter. I also work with it pretty frequently at work. I don't have it handy here and I can't find anything more than summary online. Tramp, they can't just void a warranty... They would need to prove that the Customer's lack of maintenance caused the failure. They can't just void a warranty because the Customer did not return to the Buell dealer for service. A manufacturer cannot require the use of a certain brand of product unless they offer that product free of charge under the warranty. So... they can't void your warranty for not using Screaming Eagle oil, as long as the oil of your choice meets their minimum requirements. If I remember correctly, they would have had a difficult time voiding the warranty unless the vehicle was declared a total loss, used for racing, etc. All in all, it sounds like they didn't wanna do the work under warranty because, like it's mentioned above, they don't make nearly as much money. Hell, you guys know that replacing a frame on an XB pays like 7 hours warranty time? When I got a quote, I was told 25 hours of labor. So naturally, the dealer had an estimate of $2,000 more than my insurance company. In the autotive industry, it's common practice to price customer pay at 30-40% over factory times. I had left a dealer in columbus because they were knowlingly charging 100-150% over factory time... | ||
| New12r |
All in all, it sounds like they didn't wanna do the work under warranty because, like it's mentioned above, they don't make nearly as much money +1 Tramp, I have done more warranty work than I would like, You cant just deny a claim because your shop did not do the work. HD shops seem to be the worst for trying to get out of warranty repairs by fooling unknowing customers. | ||
| Thumper74 |
It's not just that. It's pretty rampant in the automotive industry... I've got too many stories about unscrupulous shops due to my work in insurance and with the women in my family. | ||
| Tramp |
Kids- You're confusing "voiding" a warranty with a *customer* voiding the "terms of a warranty". Reread my unedited posts. Many (if not most) mc warranty terms state that, if the run-in service was performed outisde a (brand name here) factory-authorized service center, the customer is willfully voiding the warranty terms. Run-in service interval on new units needs to be performed by a factory service center, and, in the absence of such factory-authorized service, the warranty .could be so-voided, by the customer's failure to comply with this simple term | ||
| Tramp |
"Tramp, I have done more warranty work than I would like, You cant just deny a claim because your shop did not do the work. " ...and I have written far more warranty work than I would have liked to have, at several different factory/dealer service facilities- and I've seen these issues go both ways. } | ||
| Thumper74 |
My Buell warranty does not state this. I've done it both sides as well. I've done this as a Technician, Service Writer, Warranty Administrator, and Claim Adjudicator. I don't really see anything in the information given to us that would indicate he has done anything wrong, but we're only hearing half the story (Message edited by Thumper74 on July 22, 2008) | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
Tramp, I believe Buell would have to provide the run in service for free in order to say the warranty would be void if not done by them. | ||
| Tramp |
Unless the option of new-unit purchase w/o warranty (  ) is so-offered at sale. Then the sky's the limit for warranty terms. | ||
| Tramp |
"I don't really see anything in the information given to us that would indicate he has done anything wrong, but we're only hearing half the story" ...or anything that states, with certainty, that this unit is, in fact, under warranty. conversely, we have seen no evidence that the customer did everything correct, either, including procure warranty coverage ion the first place: This phrase, from one of Alligood's earlier posts: "}My son did not get any warranty paperwork with the bike. " ... raises some intersting issues.} | ||
| Damnut |
I didn't get any warranty paperwork with my bike too but ALL Buells come with a 2-year Unlimited mile warranty. And since the bike is a 07 model then it IS under warranty. No need to debate this one. I think Tramp just likes hearing himself talk so to speak. | ||
| Tramp |
Nice personal attack, but no dice on your point- ANY customer has the right to refuse warranty, AND BMC, and/or the dealer may revoke warranty in cases of total loss repair, salvage & theft recovery. Again, nice personal attack, but you are, in fact, incorrect. | ||
| Chellem |
Imagine, ME defending TRAMP - ?!?!?  But he is right - there are, on rare occasions, also some motorcycles sold via a dealer that for whatever reason, have no vehicle warranty. Usually they're previously Demos or COVs - untitled perhaps, but technically kinda used. It's not very often, but it does happen. Of course, disclosures must be presented and signed, and there's usually a friendly discount involved. But if someone gets that and then sells it personally to another buyer, well, all bets are off. Still, probably does not relate to this deal. We're all making assumptions and guesses based on info. When Alli is ready to post more info, he will. Maybe he's having some luck and won't need anymore help? ->ChelleM | ||
| Damnut |
Ok so you said on RARE occasions, so for 99% of the bikes that are sold via a dealer, what I state is true then, right? Talk about nit-picking, unbelievable. TRAMP no personal attack, I am just stating what I think, as you do on this board. It seems to me that you are in a lot of threads debating with many on this site for no other reason but to, WHAT I THINK, is just to hear yourself speak so to say. You come across as a know it all and seem to debate your thoughts as the end all, be all of the topic at hand. TO ME it seems like you argue with folks here just for the sake of arguing. I may be wrong but I am only stating what I think, which, on an internet forum, isn't much. | ||
| Ezblast |
Yeah - I still say check the warrentee for fine print relating to cyl and piston - mine was not warrented. EZ | ||
| Tramp |
"so for 99% of the bikes that are sold via a dealer, what I state is true then, right" ??? Wrong- you made up that stat. demos are frequently sold without warranty, and at great deals. hey- damnut- look at the facts at hand, here- I have worked in mc service management, i've pulled my hair out over warranty conflicts between consumer and corporation. chellem, who performs some manner of admin. mg't. at a factory-authorize dealership, backs up my statement. Ezblast, a blast owner, has chimed in to state that his blast's warranty fine print precludes cyl./piston from warranty.... maybe I'm right? Seems to me YOU have a problem with any viewpoint that runs opposite the board's status quo, even when it's (as it often is) correct. Then you say that I like to hear myself speak? maybe you just can't handle disagreement with your viewpoints. nice personal attack, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. ...really raising the badweb bar, damnut. (Message edited by tramp on July 22, 2008) | ||
| Bill0351 |
I helped a friend pick up a used police bike from a Wisconsin dealer. When he asked the sales guy about the remainder of the factory warranty, they dealer said they don't cover used police bikes. When the bike developed problems we called HD customer service and they told him the bike was covered. He made it clear the bike was used police and they said they already knew that from the VIN and that it was covered. The selling dealer maintained that they wouldn't cover it, and HD said they would. He ended up getting the work done at another dealer to avoid the conflict. As long as Buell has it listed as still under warranty, and that the 1K maintenance was done, I don't see what the problem was. A company who stands by its product won't try to get out of warranty repairs on a technicality. I am looking forward to hearing how it ends. The results will tell a lot about BMC and the dealer. | ||
| Xbduck |
Just a thought, Alligood said that when he contacted Buell they gave him the info of the dealer of origin and 1k service. Looking at this information wouldn't the dealer inform Buell if they sold a bike with-out warranty and the reason why, just to cover their butt. In return Buell would have informed Alligood about this information, or does this make too much sense. P.S. Alligood, I just might make it your way, I have a nephew working at Classic Jaguar in Austin. |
