| Author | Message | ||
     Bigeasy |
Slaughter that was one of the most funny, true and sad posts I have read in some time. I agree with just about everything you wrote.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not quite everything... I'm OK with the "eat to ride, ride to eat" bit. Just make sure every eating place is separated by at *least* 100 miles of tight twisty road. | ||
| Chellem |
Man, I hate to see Appleton go. They were our role models. Dave was my idol. I only dreamed of filling maybe the back heel of one of his shoes. Well, we're still here. We have lots of parts in stock. We have a pretty good selection of clothes and accessories and decorative doo-dads. Many of which you can purchase right online www.libertyharley.com/buell) So hit the sponsor section of the badweb with questions and we'll do our best to get you what you need. (This does explain the sudden upsurge in inquiries on our sponsor section. Hunh. ->ChelleM | ||
| Ratbuell |
I agree with just about everything Slaughter said above. The only thing I feel the need to add is, the customer plays a HUGE role in getting the dealerships to make things happen. Posting on badweb about how your dealer doesn't do anything fun doesn't cut it. GO to your dealer. FIND your salesperson or parts guy or tech or whoever the "Bueller" is there. OFFER suggestions. HD, and dealers, aren't going to just start tossing out events and things because one or two people passively mention "it'd be nice if..." on the badweb. The reason HD / HOG customers get freebies and events ad nauseum is because, despite all the "lifestyle" stereotypes, THEY SPEND MONEY. Unfortunately for the customer, for whom their Buell is a passion, for the dealer at the end of the day, it's business. Period. There is good business and bad business (and a little thing called Customer Service), but in the end it all comes to the bottom line. The customer wants the best deal possible (not always absolute dollars, either - good service and quality personnel go a long way), and the dealer needs to stay above a certain point to make sure they're still open for business for the next customer. Call it an "educated customer base" or whatever you like - my perspective is a Buell buyer is a *smarter* customer than the HD customer in that we do our research beforehand, and it goes FAR beyond "my buddy says I should...". We're also far more tech-savvy in that we do a lot of our shopping online - many dealers, including mine, just aren't set up to properly handle that kind of business (we're working on it). We're still used to old fashioned brick and glass storefront business. That's why a lot of them/us are reaching the make or break point with the brand. I know folks are tired of hearing "customer responsibility", but it's true. The Buell owner has got to support not only their own bike and their own pockets (VERY important items, don't get me wrong, but there are other things at stake). The Buell owner needs to support the people who make the bikes, who sell the bikes, and who service the bikes. Otherwise, where do you go to get your next one? I've said it before - how are we going to get any better working on the bikes and taking care of the customer when we a) never see them again after the initial sale, or b) get hammered for discounts every single time you spend six bucks at the counter? It's a 2 way street. If the owners want the brand to get better, the owners have to stop being totally self-centered and contribute to the brand. Go to your local dealer and buy a t-shirt or a quart of oil. Talk to them and find out who the Buell Guy (or Gal) is, and introduce yourself. Offer to help out - I led countless demo rides and group rides as a customer because it let the salespeople focus on getting more Buells on the road (and it let me have fun on rides, lol), and now that I'm on staff I have a number of folks who I trust to do the same for me. Don't just throw money at a counter, and walk out in a huff because Syn3 is expensive or you think $25 is too much for a t-shirt...TALK to your dealer and find out what's up. ASK what you can do to help out. Make sure they know how to get in touch with you if they need you. We've got a lot of very strong bonds between folks here on Badweb - that shows that we're basically good people. Now, extend that same courtesy to your dealership. And remember, that's DEALERship, not STEALERship. Small words make a big difference, and we're trying just as hard as you are. | ||
| Slaughter |
Joe is ABSOLUTELY correct in that you MUST work with the dealer - or be willing to GO to a dealer who "gets" the Buell brand. I have for YEARS gone to Glendale - 2 bikes and loads of parts BEFORE racing. They are not the only game in town - but they DO work with you... and they DO "get" Buell. Glendale is almost 70 miles away and that just NEVER was a problem for me since I needed to have confidence in the work that was being done. Now Lancaster HD/Buell is stepping up to the plate. I went to Homecoming with Scott and Lauri Kellerman (GM and Mrs GM) from Lancaster HD/Buell. They "get" Buell and I'm betting that they are going to be doing great things. They sponsored Inside Pass along with Glendale and Bartels last year and again this year. They now have an EXCELLENT mechanic who I've worked with ON the dyno in their shop. I have now gotten to know danged near ALL the staff in Glendale, Bartels and Lancaster and it's STILL a battle since for so long, HD has been such a cash cow that was easily milked. I know one dealer who hired an independent consultant to come in and do an assessment. He told them they had to downplay the Buell since it wasn't generating the sales volume as the typical Harley stuff. They scaled the Buell presence WAAAAaaaaay back on the floor. My own opinion is that is VERY short-sighted - and hearing that really pissed me off... but I'm just another rider. It's a different culture. You could have a bunch of aftermarket stuff hanging on pegs in the showroom - forks, shocks, fairings, wheels - and then have some REAL helmets and leathers. The problem is that you're still FORCING the potential sportbike enthusiast to have to deal with the Harley showroom that dominates. I'm just frustrated. (Message edited by slaughter on July 09, 2008) | ||
| Daves |
Thanks Chellem  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"FIND your salesperson or parts guy or tech or whoever the "Bueller" is there." So far, every Buell dealership I've been to that's into the Buell thing has at least one go-to guy. I'm lucky with Suburban. Jeff the parts guys is great and their Buell Tech, John is a fanatic. I've never been treated like a second class citizen and the availabiity/delivery of parts has very very good. My hat's off to Scott and the gang there. A quiet Buell dealer who does very well. So, instead of picking on poor dealers, maybe hyping up the good ones near you is the way to go. | ||
| Ratbuell |
}So, instead of picking on poor dealers, maybe hyping up the good ones near you is the way to go. AMEN, brother. Say hal-le-LU-jah! yesyesyes... | ||
| Court |
You guys are beginning to get close to stumbling onto something . . . very true words all. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm lucky the "go to guy" for Buells is the 1125R owning dealer owner. Strange how his passion flows down through the entire dealership. | ||
| Bigeasy |
I would agree with what you have said but.... I dropped my bike off 3 weeks ago and have a track day this weekend. Still I call 2 times a day and am polite but I am losing my @@@%^ing paticence now. This is about the recall by the way. I messed up my clutch cover getting to crazy into a corner a month ago and also asked them to order one. This part was not ordered until today after me getting really mad on the phone. I had a july 2nd appointment and told them about the track day on the 13th. I was told no problem we have the recall parts in stock! Now I here they dont have it. I called buell CS to see why they dont have it. Quess what they need the vin to send the parts out (overnight even). So buell called my dealer to have it taken care of but said if they dont put in the proper paperwork I am shit outa luck for my trackday. Good on buell for seting them straight but why in the hell dont they know this already, BS. Now I dont want to bash my dealer but man this is 2 times they have screwed up bad. I have been polite but direct in both instances. This will be the last time I deal with them though and will take up the maintance myself. My Ducati was expensive but my service was outstanding. It is to bad Buell is stuck in this spot with the HD dealers but man if Appleton stop carring them then shit what is next? I will keep going as I love my 1125r and have tools. To me it is a awsome bike and I think has more then proven itself on the track. Oh by the way on me getting the new clutch cover. I call to see if they will charge me for putting it on. "I dont know if they will" 2 minutes of silence goes by. " sir are you still there?" I repley " Yes I am still here but why are you? As far as I know you have tremove the clutch cover to do the recall right? So why do I have to pay to have a brand new part put back in its place? Please go and see if that is the case." "oh ok " Yea no sh$$ if you dont know the answer thats ok but dam go get somebody who does please. I dont pretend that eveyone should know everything but to tell me "I dont know" and leave at is unacceptable to me. The correct answer should be " Sorry I dont know but I will find out and get back to you" Sorry for the rant guys just had a few to many tonight and am missing my ride! (Message edited by bigeasy on July 10, 2008) | ||
| 46champ |
I may be wrong but is it true that to be a Buell dealer you also have to be a Harley dealer. I'll bet if that wasn't the case the dealers wouldn't be so anxious to dump the Buell line, knowing the guy down the street selling Hondas and Yamahas would gladly pick it up. I think that's the way it works with GM dealers. But I may be wrong. Of coarse my local dealer has sold out of Buells and they get me in to check on my bike when I ride up without an appointment. Oh that dealer is Paradise in Tigard Oregon and I ride a M2. | ||
| Bigeasy |
Dont know if thats true 46. I used to get the same with 04 xb12s but the times have changed. Consider yourself lucky my friend! I miss those days! Oh yea just noticed your name, GO ROSSI GO!!!!!" (Message edited by bigeasy on July 10, 2008) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Bigeasy - I feel for you, I really do. Unfortunately it's a bit of a catch-22 on the recall stuff. Have to have a VIN to order the kits; have to have the kits to do the work. I'm going to type something that a lot of people seem to miss: YOUR BIKE DOES NOT HAVE TO REMAIN AT THE DEALER WHILE WAITING FOR RECALL PARTS. If it is not a disabling recall (i.e. bled out tuber shock that keeps you from riding), bring them your bike, or just call them with your full VIN, and have them order the parts. Then call you when the parts arrive for you to come in for the work. That way, while waiting for the parts...at least you still have your bike. It has been unfortunately noted in other threads that although the quantity of recall kits for the 1125r went out...they didn't all go to the right place. You are absolutely right - the correct response to your question about the clutch cover should have been "please hold a moment while I find out". Please, take a breath or 2 and call BCS in the morning to share your experience - CONSTRUCTIVELY - with them. It is the only way for the dealer network to learn. Get a name and a case number - it should be offered to you - so you can follow up if need be. I'm off work until Friday, but if I can be of any help please feel free to PM me. | ||
| Bigeasy |
Rat, Your are right and I agree1! Its just that I made the appointment for july the 2nd a week before and was told they had the kit. So I drove the 70 miles to get it done. Only to find out that they dont have it this week. They said they were running behind last week so I repley " No problem just please I have a track day coming on the 13th and need it by then" So I call this week and get the news I posted above.(as the english would say gutted) I did call BMC today and they called me back with a case number. The lady at the other end was named Ann, she was very helpfull and understanding. She also called the dealer to get this sorted out, then called me back to let me know. (awsome!! service there!) She explained to them how to get the recall kit with my vin which blew my mind as they did not semm to know. I believe the dealer just thought buell would send them. Just as this thread is talking about dealers I felt the need to vent on this, which really is unlike me. I usually just take it and keep going as life is what it is. But man I have been calling the dealer twice a day for the last 3 days. You would think they would check and see what needs to be done to get the parts! Total lack of comunication between BMC and HD. If not for badweb we would be screwed on these types of things. Just ticks me off and is totally unnessary that they (dealer) cant pick up a phone and do their JOB!!!!! If you dont know the answer to something then find someone who does!! Thats how I operate and expect nothing less from them. I can be patient and work with people. But when they dont even care enough to find the answers I just dont know makes me mad. I hate this answer "I dont know, or Im not sure" without it being follwed by "but I'll find out and get back to you". LAZY!!! Ok I feel better now and have my comfort food on the stove (mac and cheese) DVD faster is in the player all is right with the world again  Man I need to get on the track BAD!!! Thank you Blake!! | ||
| Jlnance |
GO to your dealer. FIND your salesperson or parts guy or tech or whoever the "Bueller" is there. OFFER suggestions. I called mine yesterday. With suggestions. Well, we're still here. We have lots of parts in stock. ChelleM - If I wanted some of those parts, who would I call? Are you all set up to ship stuff, and to email the tracking numbers and so forth? | ||
| Court |
>>>maybe hyping up the good ones near you is the way to go. You're getting warm. It starts with one. >>>is it true that to be a Buell dealer you also have to be a Harley dealer. Absolutely. Liberty is thoroughly fluent at shipping parts. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
So I thought about this a little bit this evening. With the $ being at such a low level, and the XB being an international bike (by manufactured parts), is Buell currently making any money on them? I know Court is probably the only person who could know (or could make a guestimate) I don't need solid numbers just an idea. If there is a profit is it $xxxx, or is $xxx? Now look at the Harley side of things. How much profit per machine? After all of this the buell dealers can't be making very much on the sales. With the current economy in a downward trend, is this just the dealers way of circling the wagons? By killing off a less profitable product, they can reduce all the necessary staff to support said product. In this thread I have seen several mentions of niche brands, like BMW, and Ducati. Buell is not like either of them, it is not a high priced luxury machine, nor is it an aspirational machine. I love my Buell, but I doubt many kids have buell posters on their wall. Ducati is that type of brand. While on the other hand BMW is something those in there late 40's decide they can finally afford. Buell is a brand that is not very well defined to a non badwebber. | ||
| Rfischer |
...hafta' be a Harley dealer to get a Buell franchise... Aye, there's the rub. You have to be an H-D franchise [Mega-buckeroos] to get the line, but you don't HAVE TO carry the line as a Harley dealer. Not my idea of a successful marketing strategy, but I certainly can't argue with the 'Motor Company's financial acumen and success. (Message edited by rfischer on July 10, 2008) | ||
| Chellem |
ChelleM - If I wanted some of those parts, who would I call? Are you all set up to ship stuff, and to email the tracking numbers and so forth? You can put a post on the sponsor section of our site with your question, and OdinBueller or myself will address it. Or, you can call the parts counter at our store and they should be able to help you out. We don't take CCs over the phone for regular customers, but, well, until we get burned, I make exceptions for BadWeBbers - so make sure you say you're from the BadWeb. Our Shipping guy, Matt, is really good, and will be happy to send you tracking info if you want. The little online store we have isn't that sophisticated, but if you email Matt at eSales@libertyharley.com, I'm sure he'd help you out. Of course, if you ever have a problem, please PM me and I'll do my very best to take care of you. I just don't do parts as well as Odin or our parts guys.  ->ChelleM | ||
| Mikej |
"YOUR BIKE DOES NOT HAVE TO REMAIN AT THE DEALER WHILE WAITING FOR RECALL PARTS. " At some shops, if they don't have your bike in their shop then they don't have your bike in the service queue. "...but you don't HAVE TO carry the line as a Harley dealer. Not my idea of a successful marketing strategy... Be carefull with that thinking. I believe there was a point in time when some dealerships were sorta kinda strongly persuaded to carry the Buell line. That was not a good time and had some very negative side effects that also led to some very questionable games played by various people with the brand and sales and such, at least that's my understanding based upon what I've read and heard. | ||
| Jaimec |
HEY! I bought my first BMW when I was only 27!! 300,000+ miles later, I'm on my third (and likely final) BMW. Heck, that FIRST BMW was going to be the last bike I ever purchased. Thieves took that decision away from me almost ten years to the day that I bought it. Couldn't believe anyone would steal a 10 year old bike with 160,000 miles on the odometer! The bike was never recovered, either. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Am I missing something here? Since when is it the customer's responsibility to hold up the company, promote dealers, and buy products at uncompetitive prices? If I was Bigeasy, I would be pissed that my bike had a recall in the first place. throw in the fact that he has to be the one to track down parts, make phone calls to customer service, and educate the dealer is screwed up! For half the price he could have turned the key on a new SV650 and been at the trackday with no hassle. It goes back to my original thought of if the products (the bikes in this case) were good enough, they would sell. The plain fact is that they have earned a poor reputation in the media and with the motorcycle community in general. I love my M2, but I know it's limitations and quirks. On top of that, there is not a single Buell model sold in the past 5 years I would recomend to anyone. I don't tell people I own a sportbike. I tell them I own the bike that the sportster should have evolved into. Talk about dealer support, what about factory support. Why is it that the XR1200 is released and magazines write about how flawless the FI mapping is, yet the 1125r continues to get bad reviews? You have two business models that are at odds. The successful HD model that has enjoyed a great run and is truely one of the best marketing machines in the USA vs. Buell which has failed to compete with the Big 4. Think about this... Why are the big four all building Harley (cruiser) look alike bikes with better performance at cheaper prices vs. Buell which is building sportbikes that underperform and cost more? Don't believe me, price any liter bike and look at the performance vs. the 1125r. You may think they are in different classes, but the sportbike crowd doesn't. Fast is fast and the 1125r simply cannot compete when it comes to suspension, engine performance, and dealer support. The local Kawasaki dealer has a dirt track on the property that is offered for free use to all their customers. The sales associates know the prices of all their bikes on the floor off the top of their head. The hold weekly sportbike rides every Monday night. Appleton HD was lucky to get 10 people together for a monthly ride when Daves was here. This is why the Yamaha dealer less then a half mile from Appleton HD is not closing his doors but the Buell line is not moving. | ||
| Jlnance |
I believe there was a point in time when some dealerships were sorta kinda strongly persuaded to carry the Buell line. That was not a good time and had some very negative side effects It did not work well to try and force dealerships to carry the brand. Someone at the dealership actually needs to WANT the brand. | ||
| Jlnance |
Why is it that the XR1200 is released and magazines write about how flawless the FI mapping is, yet the 1125r continues to get bad reviews? You have two business models that are at odds. The successful HD model that has enjoyed a great run and is truely one of the best marketing machines in the USA vs. Buell which has failed to compete with the Big 4. A lot of truth in what you say, BUT... The XR1200 would be a completely uninteresting bike if anyone other than Harley Davidson was selling it. Harley does do fantastic marketing. Part of that is the mystique and history of the company, which their marketing has built up, preserved, and promoted. That history and mystique are not available to Buell. Even if the bikes were sold under the HD brand, they don't "fit" into the Harley mold, and would be excluded by the same history and traditions that make Harley so successful. Buell which has failed to compete with the Big 4. From a size standpoint this is undoubtedly true. On the other hand, I've watched them for several years now. They make enough money to pay their bills and invest in new models. They have steadily addressed the problems facing their company, improved their bikes, and grown their business. They certainly aren't about to disappear. I have somewhat of the opposite worry that you do. I enjoy the bikes largely because they were NOT designed by a marketing department. I believe marketing works. Marketing can sell things. Buell would sell more bikes if they had more marketing people and fewer engineers. If they did the 1124 wouldn't have scoops and it would have a conventionally mounted muffler. More people would like it. But it would start to look a lot like a Honda. That might be great for the investors, but I can already buy a Honda (and it would be a great motorcycle.) The love it or hate it bikes you have now do make the world a more interesting place, particularly if you find one you love. I'm worried someone will decide they can make more money with an "everyone likes it" bike. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I just think the Big 4 are doing everything in there power to Compete with harley, I don't understand why Buell doesn't do the same? | ||
| Odinbueller |
"Fast is fast and the 1125r simply cannot compete when it comes to suspension, engine performance, and dealer support." Holly crap! Someone get on the phone quick! We gotta tell Trev Deeley & Steve Crevier their not supposed to be kicking so much ass! | ||
| Koz5150 |
Holly crap! Someone get on the phone quick! We gotta tell Trev Deeley & Steve Crevier their not supposed to be kicking so much ass! I must have missed those entries in Moto GP? Oh thats right, Buell doesn't have a product that races in the top circuit of motorcycle racing. That's kinda like saying you are the best quarterback in Arena Football. No one really cares. Win on Sunday sell on Monday doesn't work if no one knows you won on Sunday. | ||
| Odinbueller |
"I just think the Big 4 are doing everything in there power to Compete with Harley, I don't understand why Buell doesn't do the same?" "The Big Four" are manufacturing companies, Harley-Davidson & Buell are motorcycle companies. Compare the fiscal data of Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda & Kawasaki to that of Harley-Davidson Motor Company. You'd be in for an eye opener. Harley's annual gross income falls far short of these companies annual net profit. Harley-Davidson is not that big of a company in comparison, and Buell as a subsidiary, is even smaller. That's why; money. They've got lots more than we do. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I know, that is why they are called the big 4. You can buy Yamaha guitars Suzuki cars, and Honda lawnmowers. We all know how the Harley AMF thing turned out so I am not looking for that. I just think Buell should re-examine their product. Make a quality product for the street. Not a bike that is kinda race like, but can't compete on the top level and has quality issues. Who wants to try and sell that? Back to the topic a bit, I will be sad to see Buell leave Appleton, but I was more sad when Daves left, becaue that was really the death of Buell at the dealership. Andy was a great guy, and I would love to ride with him in the future, but Daves was the guy with all the connections that made Buell fly there. Personally I would love to take over the Buell program at Appleton HD, however, the hours and pay just don't seem like they would be worth it. The biggest factor though is that I just don't believe in the product like I did the tube frame models. |
