| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
until I remember that bikes as much as 10 years newer than my tubers still don't handle as well, require more maintenance and are far less maintenance friendly. You better ch ch check yo' self befo' you wreck yo' self, foo'. Not sure where this info is coming from. I haven't had the pleaseure of riding a Tuber yet, but I refuse to believe that a company like Buell would make a step backwards when it comes to handling. And I've heard many a tuber owner freely admit that an XB is a better handling bike. Nothing against tubers, but as some have mentioned, it's just evolution. Require more maintenance? Wha wha what?!?! At last check, regular maintenance included changing the oil, brakes, fork oil, tires, spark plugs and...uh... well that's about it. If a tuber needs less than that, let me know because I'll be first in line to buy one (not that I need any more reasons to want one). Less maintenance friendly... okay, I'll give you this one, but not "far less". I would say "marginally". Gonna go with Glitch here - the right tools make everything easier. I have done some work to both my XB and a friend's tuber, and found the differences to be benign in the grand scheme of things. That said, I want a grey S3T with an orange frame, PM polished wheels and narrow bags in the WORST way. | ||
| Jaimec |
My experience has been that the XBs are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the tubers in terms of reliability. For proof you need go no farther than the reviews of the early XBs in the magazines. Every single review started out with a litany of issues the tubers had. Reading a review of an XB today, there is hardly any mention at all of previous Buell quality issues. From my own personal experience, in 36,000 miles my M2 Cyclone left me stranded and had to be towed three times. The first time was after less than 4,000 miles! At 400 miles, there was oil leaking out of the primary. At 2,500 miles oil was POURING out of the rear rocker box. At 5,000 miles it was pouring out of the front rocker box. After a trip to Daytona and back (RIDDEN, not trailered) my right shin was covered in oil from blowback from the air cleaner. I have had NONE of those issues with my XB12Ss. The only problems I've had with that bike involve replacing headlight bulbs (and I was surprised to find that they were covered under warranty for the first two years). The first time I rode an XB12R (the first year they came out) I hopped back onto my Cyclone and it suddenly felt heavy and slow. I loved that Cyclone when it ran... but I wouldn't go back to it on a triple-dog dare. The XB12Ss has been a much better than expected replacement. (Message edited by jaimec on April 08, 2008) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I'm sure that XB's are great bikes and I'm tempted to get an 08 XBR until I remember that bikes as much as 10 years newer than my tubers still don't handle as well, require more maintenance and are far less maintenance friendly. To quote Court: That is an inaccurate statement. Who says they don't handle as well? More maintenance? Where are you getting your information? I took it to mean bikes from other manufacturers. that is that some brand new 08 models from other manufacturers still don't handle as well as a tuber and require more maintenance etc.... | ||
| Djkaplan |
I always thought my tuber wasn't handling well because of operator error. | ||
| Grancuda |
This can go back and forth about the tubers being better then the XBs being better and so on. Buell had to make a more "reliable" bike and the late tube frame bikes were very reliable. They have grown as a company to know what works and if their reliability didn't get better then they wouldn't be in business today. It isn't a question of reliability. I think it comes down to a small company trying to make enough bikes to make a profit. The tube frame Buells were not cost effective enough to produce. The company couldn't afford to have 2 product lines and had to eliminate the tube frame bikes to make way for their more profitable bike. The XB is a cheaper bike to produce because the frame is just cast aluminum as well as the swingarm. To me they kind of sold out to what makes more money and claimed the fuel in frame/oil in swing arm as being better but to me it is just cheaper, it isn't lighter because the bikes still weigh more than the Jap bikes. With all the innovations they didn't still don't make a "race" worthy bike because last time I check the MotoGP is between Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha/Ducati/Aprillia/KTM. Also, to me the XB Buells look too much like a Jap bike with the chunky aluminum frame and the way the triple clamp area is and the gauges. If I wanted a Jap bike I would buy a GSXR750/1000. I remember going to the Buell Dealership back in the late '90s looking at the new S1 and thinking that that is just the best looking bike I have seen then the X1 came out and I was not sure about the tail section or the airbox/air duct under the tank, now I go to the Buell Dealership and think their bikes just look hideous. If I were to buy a new bike it wouldn't be a Buell, it would be a Ducati Monster S2R, Triumph Speed Triple or KTM Super Duke. | ||
| Aaomy |
One scientist said volcano,, another a rouge comet,, another said massive climate change.. Your tube frame buells are all obsolete!!!! Please dispose of them properly by sending them to my garage.. asap,, Quickly before it too late!!! Save your selves … And to show what a nice guy I am I will even pay the shipping for every extinct buell with clean title!!! | ||
| S2tbolt |
Why did Tube framed Buells disappear? I confess; it's my fault.  They quit making tubers because I like them so much.  But I can't help it!!! Consider this... When I first saw Willie G's 1977 XLCR on the showroom floor, I thought that was the coolest bike ever built. Of course a high school kid couldn't afford one but I never dreamed I could single handedly doom that model. It only lasted 2 1/2 years. Then when I saw Erik Buell's 1995 S2 Thunderbolt, my first thought was "It's the XLCR TNG!!! (The Next Generation) I sold my 2-stoke RD350's and RD400's and bought the '95 S2, and thus began it's demise. Alas, remember the HD "Bad Boy" model? I liked it. Doomed. Now I'm afraid to like any of the new models... at least until I can get my hands on one and we can grow old and become obsolete together.  LONG LIVE THE TUBERS  | ||
| Davegess |
To me they kind of sold out to what makes more money and claimed the fuel in frame/oil in swing arm as being better but to me it is just cheaper, You would be incorrect ;) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Riding both on a regular basis, the XB is light-years ahead of tubers as far as handling and performance. I own an S2 and S1W and am working on getting a Uly. There aren't any glaring shortcomings in my tubers...until I ride the Uly and realize just how much more speed I can carry through the same turns without feeling that flex/bobble/wobble mid-turn. I love my tubers...but I give credit where credit is due. XBs have one hell of a chassis design and they just *work*. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"When I first saw Willie G's 1977 XLCR on the showroom floor, I thought that was the coolest bike ever built." Oh, me too. I'd stare lovingly at the bike in magazines I had hidden in books in study hall when I was 16 and would crouch down on my 350 Honda and pretend I was on one when I commuted to school. I'm glad I never actually rode one. It might have destroyed the fantasy I had that it was a sure footed and fast booming cafe racer. They sure did look nice, though. I always thought Buells were what the XLCR would have evolved into had it lived on. My Buell ownership can be directly attributable to my teen obsession with the old XL Cafe Racer. The bike may have been a commercial failure, but it was a success as far as pulling customers in for a look see... and planting seeds for future sales in teenage boys in study halls. | ||
| Buellfighter |
They can have my tuber when they pry my cold.... | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I have a tuber (00 M2). It's great, I love the thing! But I'll be the first to admit that it requires a ton of work. Luckily nothing has been difficult yet. I've owned it for just over a year, and have had to replace: primary tensioner, front rocker gaskets, crank seal, front rocker gaskets again, crank seal again, and now the rear rocker gaskets. It's also vibrating more than it used to, so it's time to look at the isolators too. The thing handles great! But there isn't a doubt in my mind that an XB handles 10x better. I'm pushing my bike to (and maybe slightly past) its limits, just keeping up with the XB guys at Mid-Ohio and the Dragon. They ride a smooth line, while I'm behind them dragging metal parts and shaking and wiggling. AND I've already installed 4" raised banke rearsets and a WP rear shock. | ||
| Court |
The "to me" part of that intrigues me. Tell me how Buell made more money by spending millions developing the Aluminum frame with fuel and the swingarm with fuel in it. I'm eager to know. I'm also eager to learn what each of them costs to produce. I'm glad you're here. . . we've been needing the very info you used to leap to that conclusion. Gets these blanks filled in quick . . . I'm eager to let some folks know that they may be rich and just not know it. Ludicrous . . . why did Al Gore do this to us? | ||
| Djkaplan |
It would have been cheaper if they just put fuel in the tires and oil in the seat. No one listens to me. | ||
| F_skinner |
I listen to you Dan. Remember the Mobile 1 conversation we had at MBV??? This thread is cracking me up. It reminds me of the Harley Evo vs Shovelhead and the BMW boxer vs K motor debate of years past. I sold a S1 to buy a XB12R. I made a mistake and have had to make atonements for my sin. I love the XB12R because it is mine, refined and fast. Tubers are classy, addictive, mean and nasty just like I like them. | ||
| Matty |
Tubers DO evolve. Besides, it's hip to be square!   | ||
| P_squared |
If only I were a VERY rich man....1 of every tuber in my garage to keep my 1125R and my wife's XB9SX company...that's such a NICE dream, isn't it? Not enough employees, too small of a plant, too high of a cost, not where the King of the Kool-Aid wants to stay/go. Take your pick, it all comes down to the same thing, which is they haven't been made since '02. Ride all 3 if you can, and you will notice the differences. A tuber is very gruff & in your face, DEMANDING attention. An XB is more refined, but still has an "attitude." The 1125R whispers sweet nothings in your ear before you realize you are in triple digits and STILL accelarating HARD. I just hope that in a couple more years I can still find a Volcanic Gray/Molten Orange M2 with PM wheels, since that bike holds a place in my heart, and then I can have 1 specimen of each in the garage - Tuber/XB/1125R. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I believe every word those you who have owned both say about the improvements of the XB over tubers. And these are just my opinions - so don't get bent if I don't like your bike, you don't need my permission to not like mine. That said, I am not using all of the handling I have now and none of them (stock) have any more power than my tuber at the dragstrip (other than the 1125R). Also, IMO tubers are among some of the best looking bikes ever made. The Firebolt looks ok, but it is downhill from there with the Uly being downright ugly. While the 1125R looks better in person than in pictures it is still not a great looking bike. I understand Erik believes in function over form, but his bikes used to have both. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Everyone that traded a tuber in for an XB, along with a lot of money, raise your hand. Everyone that traded an XB in on a tuber, and got $$ back in their pocket, raise your hand. Yeah. I thought so. Tons of S1's and M2's out there for under $4000, so if you like the tubers you can have a garage full in no time. We can help you put together the list of parts you should stock for each to keep them on the road as well... it'll still be cheaper then an XB. Don't get me wrong, emotionally I love the tube frame bikes. They were something special. But if I had one in the garage, between the XB9SX and KLR-250... it wouldn't get much riding. The M2 is the best bike ever made. And the 9sx is even better . | ||
| Xl1200r |
Scott - points well taken - I also think a properly done S1 is among the most beautiful bikes ever built. I know for a fact that I don't use all the handling in my Firebolt, however, that doesn't mean one can't appreciate a better handling bike, nor does it mean that everyone doesn't use all the handling. I test rode a ZX10R not long ago. No doubt, it's a good handling bike, but my Firebolt was noticebly quicker in the transistions - a lot less work to ride hard, and that counts for a lot. | ||
| Grancuda |
Tell me how Buell made more money by spending millions developing the Aluminum frame with fuel and the swingarm with fuel in it. I'm eager to know. The time to build a cast frame once it was designed and tooling was developed. It is cheaper/faster to have a part cast, once you have tooling made because you can cast thousands as opposed to a steel trellis frame that you have to cut the tubing, machine the tubing, bend the tubing, attach tubing in a jig, weld tubing plus you have to have the neck pieces, swingarm mount pieces and such manufactured. I work in a major manufacturing plant and we try to have as many parts cast as opposed to building them because the cost is a ton cheaper. | ||
| F_skinner |
Old Buell, New Buell, All that matters is the Buell mule My apologies to Chesty Puller | ||
| Limitedx1 |
people see an xb and say oh ya thats a buell. but my tuber makes people stop. and there isnt an xb ive seen that can pull off the presence of a tube frame. granted i am only 22 and from the young crowd of rocket junkies, i will still probably never own an inline 4 bike. i have rode them and nothing compares to a hearty v twin. though the xb is very much still a buell and i probably wouldnt mind owning one, the 1125r is not a buell....uh i think i just may have opened another can of worms | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I think the 1125r is most deffinately a buell. It's just a different type of Buell. | ||
| Swordsman |
"but my tuber makes people stop. and there isnt an xb ive seen that can pull off the presence of a tube frame." I would imagine that's because the XBs have been around long enough for people to recognize, and the tubers are old AND more of a rarity. XB sales have significantly trumped that of tubers, so obviously people would be more familiar with a newer, more common model. I think. Anyone with actual numbers feel free to prove/disprove me. (Message edited by Swordsman on April 08, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
I appreciate both eras of Buell motorcycles. I'll not cease hoping for an improved/updated and upgraded revival (like via a limited edition approach a' la the Ducati Sport Customs) of the tube frame twins. My wish list would include... New 2008 engine and transmission with improved rev limit, crank pin, oiling system and more. Improve by putting an O2 sensor on each header-pipe, one for each cylinder. XB style swingarm/oil tank. Rear isolator system that allows easy belt changes without having to remove an isolator. With relocation of oil reservoir to swingarm, revise rear suspension to a more conventional configuration. Ultra-lightweight forged ZTL front wheel/brake, lightweight forged rear wheel. Improved seat pan and seat cushion configuration akin to the XB Lightnings except use the pre-1999 slim style without the added wrap-around at the forward end. Add an integral/internal fuel tank breather rather than the exposed tube projecting from near the filler opening or use the straight up style in lieu of the 90 degree elbow fitting that was implemented later, in 1999 I believe. Fully adjustable suspension, including ride height, with shocks and front forks that include a good/proper valving kit. Ohlins? Use brake pads that won't put uneven deposits on the front rotor that lead to pulsing under light braking. 100% titanium alloy exhaust tract. Carbon fiber bodywork all around for weight savings, not with just clear coat, paint the stuff as per usual with top notch clear-coated finish. Billet triple trees, pegs, rear sets and the like. Turn signals integral to front bar-end mirrors. Hydraulic clutch (low maintenance). Nickel plated frame? Six speed overdrive? Basic single round face analog instrumentation mounted in brushed aluminum or similar exotic/aerospace looking housing. Firebolt style headlights, but with reflectors that last. Allow both high and low beams to function simultaneously (third position on switch?). More? I wonder if Erik has a secret wish-list for resurrecting and upgrading a new round of Thunder-Sport Buell tube framers? (Message edited by blake on April 08, 2008) | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Many of those things sound expensive. I don't think Buell is in a position to offer an expensive bike, even if it's a 'limited edition'. It'd be cool as hell though. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
folks, it's evolution. If Erik designed it, it's a Buell. You may not like it, but you have no choice but to accept it's a Buell. statements like "the only REAL Buells are tubers" is dumb. just because you haven't evolved, doesn't mean you can stop the rest of the world from doing so. lets take the Corvette for instance. you may like the 1967 vette better than a 2008 Z06, but the z06 is a more refined, better handling and more reliable car. that doesn't make the 67 bad, just different. is that what being a bueller is all about? bottom line is it's your loot, spend it on what you like. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Get the best of both worlds. There is a tuber in OldSchool that I just cant find right now, but was totally updated with XB swingarm, front forks, lights, wheels, brakes... That is the best looking hooligan bike I have seen in a LONG time. | ||
| Drummer |
This has been a MOST informative thread. If you have a clean M2 for sale in the Atlanta area...please let me know. |
