| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Cool . . great variety of opinions. Me? . . . I love the looks of a lot of the Ducatis. Trying to argue that they aren't art is wasted breath. Where I get off is when you start talking business case. The purpose of being in the motorcycle BUSINESS is not to win races or be the fastest. The purpose is to conduct business for a profit. If you can't to that, the rest is temporary. There have been geniuses come and go in the business with GREAT designs who couldn't run a business. When you get a GREAT motorcycle . . . you are about 12% of the way towards being in the business. Money has so little to do with it it's scary. In terms of "looks", if that were my sole buying criteria, I'd have 3 Ducati's, a Norton, a BSA 441 Victor, a CL77 (currently looking) an S90 and a 1953 Harley-Davidson. I am undecided about the Hodaka Super Rat and the Carabella. Buell didn't invent "art" . . . they just made it better.  | ||
| Freezerburn |
I think Rocket looks perfect on his TRW powered streetplighter.  Mmmm, coke. | ||
| Mikej |
CL77 or CL70? http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/mcy/530798246.ht ml   | ||
| Ducxl |
 Rocket's been totally hijacked Does anyone remember the U.S.S. Constitution? IT looked just like other ships of the day but British cannon BALLS merely bounced off of it and it kicked British BUTT.Sent them running away..he-he All in fun...this is SILLY (Message edited by Ducxl on January 10, 2008) (Message edited by Ducxl on January 10, 2008) | ||
| Mikej |
If you did mean a CL77 then this one is closer to you: http://providence.craigslist.org/mcy/517005184.htm l  | ||
| Bill0351 |
Court, I am just curious what you meant by the following quote. "Money has so little to do with it it's scary." Isn't that what kills most of the small bike producers? Even now, isn't is at least part of what keeps Buell as a small manufacturer? We can argue all day about the appearance of the 1125R, but if HD hadn't given the project the nod and then authorized the finances, would it have even existed at all? I for one would like to see the 1125 start selling in numbers that nobody expected. I want it to happen because I admire Erik Buell and want him to succeed, but I also want it because I think it would cause HD to infuse the company with even more capital and resources. Even if it isn't Buell's mission in life, I would love to see the USA be a major player in the Sportbike world. If anybody could do it, Buell would be the logical place to start. Bill | ||
| Freezerburn |
Court My dad just finished having his BSA 441 Victor Special restored last year. I'll send you a picture I took of it this summer. It was the bike I took my road test on many years ago. It is now mint. Funny, it is so pristine, my dad doesn't want to ride it. | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
no the oven mitts are just for bike nights when i sit around drinkin coffee and lookin cool.... i have been known to ride with a my little pony on my helmet though  | ||
| Mainstreamer |
Someone mention earlier of Ducati stock on the decline. Take notice of how well HOG stock is doing. Down what.. 30-35% in the last 12 months. Decline continues, even after introduction of the 1125r. The future of HOG/BMC would seem to be unclear at this time. the great american motor cycle manufacturer is at a pivotal point in it's history. For HOG to continue it's success as a leader in the field things will have to change. I believe BMC will need to be a key element to the future success of HOG. Not only will BMC have to build products that perform well but it must also appeal to the eye. Many want a product that appeals to our eye, you know, an affair of the heart, not just lust. As for 'I want it to look different then the rest'..... isn't that what Edsel Ford said? | ||
| Mikej |
I'm pretty sure you meant H-D when you typed HOG since H.O.G. is a rider's group. | ||
| Davegess |
Molly if I, or anyone else here with a name knew WHY Buell did what they did we might hear it. I don't know why but I can guess and others have said it on this thread. Why if the frame is new does it look so much like the XB frame? You have the most successful lineup you have ever built, would you divorce yourself from that? I think not. Why does it use an XB-r tail? See above. Why is the front end so big? 'Cause it works so well. I can't talk about ugly as I think it is stunning. Why does it not look as good as the 1098? I think if looks good and the 1098, while pretty, looks not only uncomfortable but very hard to ride to work in an urban setting. Add in the rather involved and regular maintenance schedule, one competent dealer 30 miles away, and a price tag several thousands of dollars higher and you get a bike that would not make my wanna buy list until somebody gives me large sums of cash. As far as Court's money comment; Of these three who spendt the most moeny to get into the motorcycle business; a.Excelsior-Henderson b.Indian c.Buell Who spent the least? Who is actually in business making bikes? Same answer. Money is important sure, Triumph would not have come back without it BUT Buell went into the MC business and shipped street legal motorcycles all over the world for TEN years for less money than many would pay for a house. H-D and it's cash was no where to be found. The XB and 1125 have been funded out of the profits Buell is now making and planning on making over the next few years. Essentially H-D has loaned Buell money but a lot less money than those two mentioned above spent to not make bikes. | ||
| Bill0351 |
HOG is what Harley Davidson uses as a name on the NYSE. Bill | ||
| Mikej |
Really? Alrighty then. | ||
| Court |
>>>Isn't that what kills most of the small bike producers? Bill: Your question is a good one. Money, if you want to get into the motorcycle business, is like water. You will die without it and you can't live on it. Let me ask a question, not to put you on the spot, but for the sake of discussion. If you had the following resources:
1) Do you think you could start a motorcycle company? 2) How long do you think you could operate it? 3) Do you think you could make a profit? Back to the resources . . . . .
1) Do you think you could start a motorcycle company? 2) How long do you think you could operate it? 3) Do you think you could make a profit? Choose wisely. | ||
| Rocketman |
I see an awful lot of sensible reasons as to why the 1125 is the way it is, but this does not answer the overriding questions on the lips of those at ill with its looks. We are told the 1125 is the Buell that is going to take the European market by storm. Take on the Japanese and Italian superbikes head to head too. Yet all the sensible offerings posted here today as to why the 1125 is the way it is all seem to point towards selling like hot cakes in America. So, is it a world beater or a home run? That's the great Buell sting is it not? Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Choose wisely. You'd think Buell were the only company that fought their way to where they are today  Give me Buells current resources and I'd have you the world beater by next years riding season. ..............and I can prove it. Rocket | ||
| Court |
The whole "give" thing is foreign to the "get" crowd. (Message edited by court on January 10, 2008) | ||
| Frankfast |
That last post belongs in the Backfire Board. Let's keep politics out of it or I will be forced to comment. Beat me to it. Saw the post before edit. (Message edited by frankfast on January 10, 2008) | ||
| Ducxl |
..............and I can prove it. Yeah,yeah,like that abomination you call a streetfighter..No i don't mean the S1w. A ship that looked like any other.Except within the three layers thick hull,the middle layer comprised of Live Oak and scared the HECK out of the crew of the HMS Guerriere ..Then we burned and SANK IT  BTW,we New England Buell Owners got a private tour of the ship by a fellow NEBO crew member.How cool was that!! (Message edited by ducxl on January 10, 2008) | ||
| Crusty |
Put your money where your mouth is. I've been out to the farm where it all started, and listened to the people who were there at the beginning. You have a repair shop (I assume) where you work on Saabs; I'll bet it's bigger than the 3 car garage out at the farm. Design a world beater chassis. Now take your sparkling personality and convince some folks with money to back your venture. Then go find a manufacturer who'll supply you with engines. Soon you'll be on your merry way! (Real soon, I hope!) | ||
| Ducxl |
Buell show today at Precision HD/Buell.I'm late.Be there or be square! | ||
| Jb2 |
Rocket, I've had the privy of talking to many in the industry. Concept to deliverable product CANNOT be done in a years time. While I know a little about you I have no clue what experience you've gained that would give you all the tools to complete a task of that size in one year. Can't be done. Since Erik started with next to nothing in money but a huge investment in education why do you compete with him on his level. Start in a barn with desire, education and an empty till and show us what you're made of. The one thing I've taken from this thread is you folks have forgot the most important part. When is the last time any of you in this fray got on your bike and took a ride? Fer Chrissakes get over it Rocket my friend. JB2 (Message edited by jb2 on January 10, 2008) | ||
| Ironken |
Well, I can see where everybody has been today...Right here....Myself, I was enjoying 68 deg weather and clear skies on my XB which BTW is the exact same frame as the 1125R with a few miner mods.......O.K. so shoot me, I couldn't resist. Personally, I don't give a shit if it's frame is the same as a John Deere A, it works and I like it........ I know rocket will be riding something Coke bottle shaped. like a penis? | ||
| Bill0351 |
Court, That question reminds me of something from the Tao. It also reminds me of Soichiro Honda. He was a simple mechanic who turned his skills into one of the most profitable companies in the world. I thought this quote said a lot about his vision. "I knew that if I could succeed in the world market," he said, "then automatically it would follow that we led in the Japanese market." It's almost the complete opposite path that Harley followed, but both lead to success. So, to answer your question: If I were to choose for MYSELF I would have to go with the cash, talent and factory. It's the only way I would have any chance at all. Then it would be hit or miss based on my ability to delegate to those more qualified than myself. What do you think of the relationship between Buell and HD? Obviously HD made it possible to take Buell to the next level, but do you think it might eventually be his limiting factor? I don't mean to put you on the spot either. It just seems like a fair question. It would sort of be like Mitsubishi buying the majority of Honda in about 1955. Would they be the dominant force they are today as a subsidiary of a larger company? Will there ever be a time that Buell will want to shake free of Harley the way Harley did from AMF? Anyway.... Thanks for the conversation. It's too crappy to ride here in Green Bay and it's always fun to talk motorcycles. Bill | ||
| Rocketman |
Let me clarify. If I took on Erik Buell's role at BMC today, you'd have your world beating exotic sports bike by summer 2009. I'm pretty sure with Buells team and factory at my disposal I could have that bike ready within 18 months.  Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention. I'd need a pencil and a napkin to start with. Usually I do it just in my head. But never was there a time when a single motorcycle design was so important. I need the pencil and napkin, just to be safe   Rocket | ||
| Court |
>>>I don't mean to put you on the spot either. You are not putting me on the spot and it's important (I see you are fairly new here) that you understand I am a construction worker. The things I say are NOTHING MORE THAN MY PERSONAL OPINIONS. Let me ask you another question . . . . if you were a multi-millionaire before setting out on a journey to build a motorcycle, how long do you think it would take to produce a street legal motorcycle? Court | ||
| Ironken |
Let me ask you another question . . . . if you were a multi-millionaire before setting out on a journey to build a motorcycle, how long do you think it would take to produce a street legal motorcycle? With or without using a pencil and napkin? | ||
| Rocketman |
Ah forget the street legal excuse. The 1125 has had years of benefits from other street legal Buell models. We're essentially talking about building an attractive looking Buell in the same time scale it took Buell to bring the 1125 to market. Here ya go. I started already.  There. Fixed it! Rocket | ||
| Davegess |
Bill0351, that was a trick question. Erik Buell is choice two, Excelsior-Henderson and Indian are choice one. Rocket, if you took on Erik's role LMFAO! That's a good one! I needed a laugh. You do need to start a MC company; I can't wait to see what you come up with. Laughter is good. |
