| Author | Message | ||
     Naustin |
I don't know if it will do any good, but I feel a little better. I encourage all Buell owners to write to Harley Davidson and get whatever you would like to say off your chest. Harley-Davidson Customer Service 3700 W. Juneau Avenue Milwaukee, WI 53208 Dear Harley Davidson, I am a Buell owner (2001 Buell S3T – hope you know what that is – not holding my breath) and I have a problem. I am so disgusted with the level of service that I have received at several different Harley Davidson dealerships that I literally have headaches when I think about it. I am especially tired of what seems to be an anti-Buell attitude that many dealerships exhibit. I have witnessed this attitude first hand on several occasions at more than one Harley Davidson dealership. I expect Harley Davidson, as the parent company of Buell Motorcycles to address the problems at the dealerships. I believe that Buell owners should be treated with the same respect as any rider that comes in on an Ultra Classic. I, as a Buell owner, expect every HD dealership to have a minimum level of Buell training, at least 2 new Buell models on the showroom floor (and not stuck in a corner behind the used bikes), a minimum amount of in-stock items in the parts department, and have a service department that is well trained and abreast of all of the issues that are specific to Buell. No Buell owner should have to coach a service technician on the proper procedures for completing repairs, wait for basic maintenance parts to be ordered because they are not in stock, or worry that their bike is more likely to be “accidentally” dropped on purpose, than properly serviced when they leave it with their dealer. This is my suggestion: I think that all HD dealers should be required to live up to a minimum level of service for Buell, and Buell should begin secretly auditing dealerships and surveying Buell owners. If a dealership fails to meet Buell’s standards, that dealership should not simply stop selling Buells. No, I think that dealership should have its inventory of Harley Davidson’s restricted. If a Dealer is not capable of delivering a minimum level of service for Buell, than that dealership should not be allowed to tarnish the name of Harley Davidson either. If they can’t respectfully and competently service a Buell, than they shouldn’t be allowed to sell Electra Glides – for example. If the dealer wants to sell Electra Glides, than they must pass their secret service audits and maintain Buell inventory – simple as that. And, it shouldn’t be too difficult as long as individual employees at these dealerships don’t let their egos and personal biases get in the way. It’s about time that Harley Davidson stopped tolerating incompetence among its dealership’s staff and demonstrated to all Buell owners, HD owners and the motorcycling public in general that it is truly committed to the Buell brand. Demanding that its dealers improve their service levels for Buell can only result in improved service for all Harley Davidson customers. Sincerely and Respectfully, Nick Austin | ||
| Lions |
Time for a change...Lotsa good deals on leftover ricers  | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Excellent letter, remember though not all HD Dealerships have Buell franchises as well...but you know that. I like the idea of restricting all inventory if they cannot keep up, but I fear if that were TRULY to come to pass that many HD Dealerships may just drop the brand...but that may not be all that bad...force some stand alone dealerships or allowing power sports shops to take on the brand, nice letter in all. I am in favor of it! | ||
| Naustin |
I am suggesting that all HD dealers be given the buell franchise and not be allowed to drop Buell. The Buell franchise would become an inexorable part of the HD franchise itself. In effect, dropping or failing on Buell would mean dropping HD and simply going out of business. I am suggesting that failing on Buells be regarded in a way similar to dealerships in the past that turned their noses up on Sportsters. There came a time that this was simply NOT TOLERATED any longer and Harley put the smack down. Its time for them to go find their tire iron again. Nick (Message edited by naustin on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Macbuell |
I'd rather have stand alone Buell dealerships than force dealerships that don't want Buells to carry them. I have thought for a long time that it makes more sense the sell Buells alongside Triumph's and Ducati's than it does Harley's. | ||
| Roadrailer |
If you want them to take you seriously, try not to be insulting in the very first line. Also, address it to someone (preferably someone high up the chain in a position to affect your suggested changes). Addressing it only to HD will get it thrown in a very large pile of mail that probably doesn't get much scrunity. Personally I'd rather have dealers that care about the brand than dealers that are "forced" to carry them. (Message edited by roadrailer on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Slaughter |
I say a HUGE part of the bad reputation that Buells had was from the dealers being ORDERED to carry and support Buells. The LAST thing I'd want was a wrench being turned on my bike by a guy who hated it and had no interest. I'm inspired when I meet a mechanic at a dealer who is EXCITED to be working on Buells. Recently, Glendale Buell (Glendale, CA) hired a mechanic and sent him to Buell school. He saved a Badweb poster here after this guy was badly served by a Harley dealership and was running out of time before the recent track day with a sour motor. Matt did all the right stuff and when I stopped in to tell him that he really made an impression - you could TELL that Matt really cared and loved hearing that his work made a difference. I don't want ANYBODY near my bike who doesn't want to be there. Let's not take one step forward and two steps back. Keep the Buells the hell away from Harley wrenches! | ||
| Ezblast |
Actually Nick has a valid point - if as we believe - Buell is the HD Next Generation line, then they as a group need to start taking it seriously and treating the bikes right - if the mech. doesn't like it, he can go work for an independent shop that only works on HD cruisers - he can be replaced, the rest of the shops would either tow the line or get out of selling HD products period - GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Liquorwhere |
I don't think forcing the brand on anyone is wise, let them go to those that want them...open up the franchises so others past HD dealerships can have them..that is a better thing I think...EZ...I just don't agree with you at all that Buell is the next generation HD...HD is HD and is a fine product for what it is, Buell is Buell and need to stay that way. All of course are just MHO... | ||
| Naustin |
a wrench being turned on my bike by a guy who hated it and had no interest. I don't want ANYBODY near my bike who doesn't want to be there. Exactly, And all it will take is Harley Davidson, Inc. calling up the shop owner and informing him that he is no longer eligible to purchase Electa Glides for his inventory because Jo Blow in the service department blew it on a secret audit and Jo Blow who hates Buells will be fired and Mr. Shop owner will hire someone who doesn't Hate Buells. I don't care if the shop owner likes buells. I'm am only proposing introducing a very sever economic penelty for the owners that hire people who don't like buells. That way, in not very long at all, all the employees at the Harley shops will either like buell and treat them right and enjoy working on them, or they will have been fired for putting a big hole in the bottom line. PS - thanks EZ.  (Message edited by naustin on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Ezblast |
Cruisers are a dying breed, and the only new reliable blood HD has produced is the V-Rod - and soon there will be a glut of older models on the market - then what? Unless HD starts producing sport-bikes, dirt bikes and utility bikes under their banner, they will be history - I'd say Buell is fulfilling that role and its time they stepped up and supported them - for that reason alone - all others aside. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Cruisers are not a dying breed my friend, I have people of all ages attracted to my two cruisers and quite frankly I love those bikes, they serve a different purpose than my Buells and I find your statements to be incorrect, again my humble opinion, but they have made dirt bikes and in a way they have made sport bikes and utility bikes, but that which makes a Harley a Harley to those that don't like them, well you just don't understand, but it isn't a plastic tank...now I do agree that Buell could be used to bridge the gap with a younger generation geared more to sport bike riding, but HD will always be HD (mind you I refer to HD as the evil empire) but you have to respect what the founders built and what Willie being the lucky sperm he is inherited, and the older models are quite nice by the way...I own a couple. | ||
| Roadrailer |
Do you honestly think HD is going to deny the dealership the ability to sell its hot bikes because an employee performs poorly with a secret shopper? That just doesn't make good business sense. Cruisers are a dying breed  That's just nonsense. Cruisers aren't going anywhere in this country, and neither is HD. They know their market all too well (as they should; they created it). | ||
| Naustin |
I agree. The cruiser genre is not going anywhere. But, as long as Harley owns Buell, there is just no excuse for doing it half-ass or for allowing your dealers to undermine and sabotage that part of your business. (Message edited by naustin on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Ezblast |
LOL - you really don't get it - the biggest owners of cruisers are baby-boomers, soon their bikes will glut the market - all those almost new HD's will be selling for low prices and HD will be hard forced trying to convince people to buy new, when the market will be so flushed with used - that is what I am referring to. Not that cruisers will die out but that the market will be flooded with them. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Well written You guys seem to forget. They make tons more money on the at $30k fat glide than 5 Buells. It is more than the initial sale, it is the chrome bling that goes with it. It is the Harley branded leather and jackets they all seem to buy with the bike. Lets face it Carbon Fiber cost a ton more than chromy things. They will never stock it. WE forget you cannot walk in to a Honda dealer and buy most sport bike accessories off the dealer shelf. But they do have most critical parts available. I have owned a number of Honda's and everything is special ordered. WE feel for the most part, that just because the HD dealer has chromy things on the shelf for the Cruisers they should treat the Buells the same. They will not. As a Buell owner what I want is the dealer to stock a few limited critical parts. Dealership Buell t-shirts are nice too. I would like to walk into the dealership without getting heckled by the Harley owners and Dealership staff. Yes the Clothing lady is getting nasty by my weekly visits to ask about t-shirts. (Message edited by lost_in_ohio on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Wardan123 |
Your letter echos one my father wrote at the end of the 1980's insomuch that H-D can be perceived as overlooking their loyal customers. In 1989 my dad asserted that H-D had forgot or ignored its loyal riders by letting prices for the bikes climb out of reach for the common working man. I know the local market dictates the price- but waitlists of a year- and exorbitant "Uncrating fees" of literally thousands of dollars - and used bikes above MSRP etc. were too much. As bikes became chic and trendy, and dealerships turned into boutiques, the men and women who believed in and supported H-D through their lean times were now left out their picture... Nothing ever came of the letter. More boutiques were built and the market is still (to my way of thinking) pretty ridiculous. | ||
| Roadrailer |
LOL - you really don't get it - the biggest owners of cruisers are baby-boomers, soon their bikes will glut the market - all those almost new HD's will be selling for low prices and HD will be hard forced trying to convince people to buy new, when the market will be so flushed with used - that is what I am referring to. Not that cruisers will die out but that the market will be flooded with them. There are TONS of used bikes on the market right now (just look at your local Cycle Trader) and they don't seem to have much impact on new bike sales. Why? The used bike may be somewhat cheaper, but the new bike comes with easy financing (including accessories), zero miles, a free t-shirt, and that new bike smell.  Oh, and you get to ring the bell. Seriously, don't discount these aspects of the buying experience. People want new toys. And remember, for every baby boomer giving up his bike for the wheelchair there are all his children and grandchildren who can't wait to get their hands on some chrome butt jewelry. Spend some time in your local dealer, and watch all the 20- and 30-somethings drooling over (and BUYING) new HDs. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
More boutiques were built and the market is still (to my way of thinking) pretty ridiculous. You have no idea(well maybe you do)... We have an actual "Harley Davidson Boutique" at the freakin' mall! No, I'm not joking. They don't sell bikes, just "stuff". It brings new meaning to one of my favorite sayings: the "Leather and Chrome Outlet". Their bike sales might not keep growing at the rate they have been, but the merchandise sales will continue to grow exponentially. My $8.23 (HD markup) p.s. I'm just glad our Buell parts are still fairly reasonably priced. (Message edited by tank_bueller on April 02, 2007) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
LOL - you really don't get it - the biggest owners of cruisers are baby-boomers, soon their bikes will glut the market - all those almost new HD's will be selling for low prices and HD will be hard forced trying to convince people to buy new, when the market will be so flushed with used - that is what I am referring to. Not that cruisers will die out but that the market will be flooded with them. Actually you don't get it, I sold these bikes for a living, HD and Buell and my young customers were the ones that their fathers or uncles rode a Harley and they wanted one too...Buell guys and girls are just that, they are into that brand and it is a niche market, HD is mainstream like Mercedes Benz, and don't underestimate that chic, did HD turn it's back on most of it's loyal clientele? Yep, and they prospered, even as much as their ways and means sicken me, the facts are the facts, all my education points me to write that they know what they doing and how to do it, make no mistake, they will perpetuate and flourish as long as motorcycles are made and they will make what they think they need to make to survive, and IMHO, you are off target EZ, I admire your enthusiasm, but I think you need to take a good look at their sales numbers posted on their website. Publicly traded and all, they are public knowledge. Buell is a great brand that I do love, but you are off your rocker when you say the cruiser market is dead, do you know why? Because I am 36 and I will buy at least 5 more cruisers in the next ten years, I am not a baby boomer buddy, I will also buy a few sport bikes to add to the collection. 25 bikes is the goal and I am only 20% there, and I am not alone....anyway, off to bed, just got home from a ride on said cruiser, geezer glide to be exact, kicked some Jamiroquai and some Cars on the trip cause it is 70 degrees and nice tonight in florida... | ||
| Xl1200r |
Yes, good letter. I think I'll write to General Motors and demand that the Cadillac dealership down the road from me be forced to sell GMC Trucks and require all the techs to know how to work on a Hummer H1 in case it shows up. HD may be a parent company, but Buell is a seperate brand. To force an HD dealer to carry Buells in an area where there's no demand is just plain silly. Forcing a delaer to have at least 2 models on the floor is equally as silly. So now the same Joe Blow that coudln't get decent service also can't purchase a new one instead because there's only 2 on the floor and the dealership will get socked with a fine if they sell one. If a Buell dealer is a bad Buell dealer, they should not be allowed to sell Buell. There's no reason to limit their HD sales. I don't mean to slam, but that letter is totally off base. | ||
| Rick_a |
H-D has had programs where incentives were given for pushing Buell sales. They were generally met with some reluctance, and created some increasing resentment towards Buells. It's a business, and as one H-D will continue on a strategy towards growth. I personally wouldn't want anyone touching my machine that has a bad attitude over the job at hand. That's how many of the bad service issues occur to begin with. | ||
| Socalbueller |
Where are these Buell dealerships people keep talking about. All I find are Harley dealerships that sell Buells. While they sell a butt load of bikes I feel Harley dealerships are off in their own world from the rest of the motorcycling community. My dad got a Harley in the late 80s, which was the bike he always wanted when he was younger. In the early 90s the bikes were selling for thousands over MSRP with waiting lists for all these "RUBs" to play outlaw biker on the weekend. Almost 20 years later it's the same attitude and scene. If Buell wants to get any place they need to get out of HD Dealers. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Wow. This is all so alien to me. Auckland Motorcycles and Power Sports. Buells right by the front door. A few tee shirts key fobs and badges in stock. Bike gets TPS resets etc while i wait. Rate the folks that work there as friends and never get anything but first rate service. Sorry for your pain - it can be a great experience. dc | ||
| Mtch |
the dealer i bought my Buell from (this is in England) has the Buells right inside the front door. they do sell Harleys (also Ducati & Triumph) and HD's take up most of the floor space, but the first bikes you see when turning in off the road are the Buell demo bikes. seeing things from an outside (non American)point of view. Harleys are more a bike to buy for the image rather than the riding. HD probably make as much if not more money from accessories & clothing than they do on the bikes. at least thats my impression. | ||
| Court |
>>>>If you want them to take you seriously, try not to be insulting in the very first line. Good point. I like the spirit of the letter but frankly if I got it the receiver would be switched off before I reached the crux of the message. Complacency is the enemy. If you need to know more . . write me. (Message edited by court on April 03, 2007) | ||
| Nevrenuf |
because i have dealt with my dealer almost from the time that their doors were open, i get pretty good service and now that my daughter works there i get better service. they don't sell that many buells but they have a nice little section for them and they have a good buell trained tech there from what i have dealt with him in the past on. just because they don't sell that many should they be taken away from them. i don't think so. they just need to get someone in there who is buell first and h-d second for sales and service. then they would be a better buell dealership. apparently liquorwhere is over his little tangent about service cause it looks like he still has his bikes and although he didn't specify what kind of bikes he would like to add to his harem, i'm sure there would be another buell or h-d. btw liquor, you should have thought about going up to mb4. it was great riding. and since i took the trailer up i would have had room for one in the truck. bottom line is if your going to sale the buell line have one person committed to it. you wouldn't have any sponsors on this site if there wasn't at least one person from that place committed. (Message edited by nevrenuf on April 03, 2007) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
>>>>>>Complacency is the enemy. If you need to know more . . write me. Alright Court, good point, so why not this, the corporate officers of HD bought that company by pooling their resources. Let's form and LLC, set the shares at one million, sell shares to all that can, raise the money make a tender offer and buy Buell back....that or live with HD rule..it is like a rebellion to get your own country, gotta be willing to sacrifice to have what you want. I am in for some shares... | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Neil my friend, I am off my tangent..lol I would have loved to have gone to MB4 but I am limited on how much I can be away, doing my masters and all this fall is sucking up my time off and my fraternity brother is getting married in may so I am going back to colorado, I was supposed to go to Spain for a MotoGp this year but it looks like it won't be happening...mostly because I couldn't get it done before it happened..it has been crazy rebuilding the X1 and trying to get some work done, play some golf and add a deck on the house...I just need more time is all. So how was the trip? My harem needs a new Buell for certain and I think it needs a JD model HD, just for some old world flavor...of course a Ducati Monster would be ok too... | ||
| Bomber |
Many good thought expressed here -- some good, critical thinking has been displayed -- good fun to read along with that is the lack of understanding of business in a manufacturer/distributor world -- HD has very little control over what happens at the day to day level in the dealerships, which is, overall, good. HDI know how to make and market motorcycles. They (in so far as I am aware) do not run dealerships -- HDI can give incentives to dealers (Bar and Shield and Pegasus awards) for specific behaviors -- they can yank a franchise, if they see fit (likely a rare occurance, caused by the most dire of circumstances), and, beyond that, not much more me, I don't WANT HDI deep in the dealers pockets -- it's not their area of expertise, and the money it would cost would come out of the least profitable portion of HDI's business, I'll wager . . . vote with your feet -- the good performance of a number of dealers will not be unseen by others, and when the amount of revenue generated by a Daves or Clown becomes important to a dealer's yearly number, they will step up to the plate, or go out of business if voting with your feet in your location means buying something other than a Buell, by all means, let someone in the Iron TOwer know - enpough rational letters (and a drop in revenue) WILL get the attention of even an MBA ;-} none of this, of course, makes getting parts any easier today -- as for the death of cruisers, EZ may be right -- me, I beat that drum for 20 years -- guess what HDI's stock did for each and every quarter of those 20 years? this explains my lack of a meteoric rise in corporate-level marketing |
