| Author | Message | ||
     Grim_euphoria |
Davegess, If they could take 100 pounds out of the engine, would there be enough left to not grenade on start up? How much weight can be taken out? That might free up some revs. Right now we can hang with the Jap and Euro crotch rockets till around 100mph, we need more rev-ability to not get dusted on the straights, Or more gears. How much more room does the v-rod engine need? A blower would be great within the current rev range, but turbos steal less horsepower and don't run out of breath on the top end (of our rev range), and an intercooler can theoretically be incorporated to allow more boost. I've heard a rumor that there is a bike coming out of Europe in '04 that is supposed to have 180hp stock. We gotta do something!  | ||
| Aesquire |
No, not a blower, but a exhaust driven turbine ( 1/2 a turbo charger) coupled to the crankshaft. (or primary drive on my napkin (all great designs start on a napkin!  )) The idea is to recover exhaust energy directly, without the heat & detonation problems of supercharging. The Wright R3350 TC18, used on DC-7C's & Super Connie's was turbo-compounded. | ||
| Brentx1 |
If they built a sport tourer, they would have to extend the rear end to accomidate the sticker with the model number XB9S3T.  } | ||
| Peter |
Aesquire, How does that work when it would kill the effects of exhaust scavenging, without compensating it with forced induction? I think the losses would outweigh the benefits. Just guessing though. | ||
| Racerboy |
Here's my .02...XB12 in 2004 and a "touring" model in 2005... Don't ask, don't tell... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Crusty |
I want 100 HP, 90 LbFt, good hard bags and comfortable ergos. Oh, the XBs level of reliability, of course. But I doubt I'll see it this year. | ||
| Pdxs3t |
Would love to see a sport touring model based on the XB with more HP and tork! | ||
| Blake |
Aesquire, What Peter said. Besides, there just isn't much recoverable power available from the exhaust stream. No way it would be worth the contraption required to do so. I like the turbo. | ||
| Hootowl |
What about an electric turbo? Stir...stir... | ||
| Aesquire |
Blake, looking at the diagram for a R3350, I see that it has a crank driven supercharger, as well as the turbo compound feature. Most WWII aircraft engines had a crank driven super, usually with 2 speeds, and high altitude models had a second stage blower, mechanical or turbo. So... yeah, damnit, the powerloss from inefficient scavenging would prob. not be made up with turbo-compounding. The Wright 3350 (cubic inches!) engine would not have that issue, as it is blown. (along with my idea!  ) BTW the reason turbo's are so efficient, is there IS power to be recovered, but turbo-compounding a normally aspirated motor is a bust. | ||
| Grim_euphoria |
Is it really worth all the weight and complexity/ reliability issues for the HP return (on a street bike)? The aircraft engines from the WWII era don't produce their full power on today's gas. If you're running alcohol, nitromethane, race gas, or using race gas & water injection you can get full power out of that kind of set up (briefly), but not on straight pump gas.  | ||
| Grim_euphoria |
Electric turbo? is that an electric motor incorporated in the turbo to help provide more boost? or take some of the back pressure off the exhaust? Now you're getting into power returned for the increased load on the generator and thus power from the engine, plus electrical resistance..... Not worth the effort I think. Current turbo technology can easily provide way more boost the engine can ever hope to use, and the increased mass on the turbine (from the electric portion) would probably make any turbo lag problems worse. However I could be wrong. Try it, let's find out for sure! | ||
| Elvis |
"Electric turbo? is that an electric motor incorporated in the turbo to help provide more boost? or take some of the back pressure off the exhaust? Now you're getting into power returned for the increased load on the generator and thus power from the engine, plus electrical resistance..... Not worth the effort I think." This isn't based on any real knowledge of what actually exists, but in theory a computer contolled system with a battery could store energy when you're cruising and only kick in under certain circumstances (eg: when rate of rpm increase reaches a certain point etc.). Of course your mass concern would be particularly valid because it wouldn't start spinning until needed. Also battery mass and additional lag if the computer isn't efficient enough could be a concern. Again this isn't based on any real knowledge of what's out there, just theoretical validation of a potential system. (Message edited by elvis on May 11, 2003) | ||
| Blake |
Elvis, See the Electric Turbo Topic on the Quick Board. Use the new "Next - Previous" links at the tops of the archived pages to more easily surf through the discussion. Basically, an electric turbo is a valid idea, but its boost to performance is very limited. You'd need a 5 to 10 HP motor to achieve the boost that an exhaust driven turbine typically produces. At 12 volts such a motor would draw in excess of 500 amps. If you are looking for only a 5% boost in RWHP for intermittent WOT operations, then an electric turbo might be a viable device to do so. Read the aforementioned topic and decide for yourself.  | ||
| Elvis |
Thanks Blake!!! | ||
| Grim_euphoria |
Good god Blake, I was just looking at this possibility off the top of my head, you are amazing! My question is, Can more HP be developed than is consumed to produce it? (with this electric forced induction) My next question is, With the weight and space requirements of such a system, will it overcome the performance degradation it's presence on the motorcycle presents? 5% is thin margin to work with.  | ||
| Blake |
The electrical juice comes from the battery, the stator/alternator is spinning under load no matter if charging the battery or not. If the eram intake weighs less than 5% of total bike and rider combined weight, you'll see added acceleration. Yep, 5% ain't worth it in my opinion. I'd rather spend the money on a performance top end, cams, and exhaust system and/or run some racing fuel. Or heck, a conventional turbocharger, or nitrous oxide injection. | ||
| Hootowl |
I was kidding...Thought I'd reopen an old wound. | ||
| Grim_euphoria |
Anything that might improve performance however off the wall deserves a good hard look. Revisiting old ideas with a fresh perspective has lead to more than one break through! | ||
| S320002 |
RE: Motorcycle superchargers. Check out page 24 of the June 2003 issue of Motorcyclist. Seems BMW is considering supercharging for more than one model. If AMAPR was committed to finding a slot for than just the latest Japanese bikes this would really have them confused. Greg  | ||
| Blake |
First off, AMAPR is not interested in ANY way in finding a slot for BMW or any other non Japanese brand. Even if they were... Turbos are not allowed in the AMAPR superbike series. | ||
| S320002 |
I don't know how the AMAPR rules read but there is a distinct difference between turbochargers and superchargers. Turbocharging can technically be called supercharging but the reverse is not true. Also you can bet the rules will change in a hurry if Japan Inc begins to show an interest in supercharging. Greg | ||
| Crusty |
Funny, wasn't it about 20 years ago that all 4 Japanese manufacturers were building Turbos? The rules didn't change then. | ||
| S320002 |
Actually Crusty, 20 years ago you could race damn near anything and it was fun to watch. Not many people wanted to race a shaft-drive transverse V twin 500cc turbocharged Honda Silver Wing. A few people tried other turbos but the turbo-lag made them hard to manage and they weren't very reliable. Greg | ||
| Blake |
Heck yes, with the current AMAPR board, anything Japan Inc. wants, they get. That's a given. | ||
| Mfell2112 |
How about a crank balancer on that lovely vtwin. Buell needs to reduce the weight of their bikes. Mike | ||
| Dynarider |
Posted on UKbeg about the 2004 Buells.http://www.bike-pix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1237&start=0&postdays=0&postorder= asc&highlight=&sid=d2419658c0dd364de8084f3d73023566 | ||
| Anonymous |
Ahhh, yes, as Dyna demonstrates, the spreading of BS is a worldwide phenomenon... | ||
| Spiderman |
HAHAHAHA | ||
| Dynarider |
We will know in a few months whats BS & whats not. Going to be interesting thats for sure. |
