| Author | Message | ||
     Gentleman_jon |
I AM NOT GOING TO PUT UP WITH THIS KIND OF CR*P!! IF THIS KIND OF THING KEEPS UP, I WON'T HAVE THE ONLY BUELL IN THE VILLAGE!! OH CRUEL FATE!! PS: CAN ANYONE POST THE WHOLE ARTICLE, CAN'T FIND IT HERE IN THE BOONIES? | ||
| M1combat |
Sorry if I confused you... I meant "designed to haul your POSTS over here". It would have been pretty pointless to post on a board you don't read yes? Why do you suppose I said "DO NOT" send this to you? I knew you'd see it  . Why do you own so many bikes anyway? Trying to find one that satisfies you ? | ||
| Choptop |
As to racing Formula USA Thunderbike on an SV... I'd love to. But the reality is that the races are held on the other side of the country, and I already race motorcycles in 2-3 series, and I have a life, other hobbies and a little thing called work. So I cant. I'm sure I'd get beaten by many, and I would prolly finish in front of a few. I've never claimed to be the fastest racer on the track. There is only one of those. as to how SV's do in Thunderbike... ya might want to take a look at the results. They seem to hold their own against the best handling street bike ever. | ||
| Anonymous |
Well, I've won money racing motorcycles also, and quite a bit actually, but that doesn't make me a professional journalist, no. But I have ridden many many motorcycles, and I believe the XB is a superb handling motorcycle. And it just happens to be that a lot of folks are now believing Buells handle well, and better than the bikes on your list. The number grows as people ride Buell XBs. Chop, I suspect you and Vik were singled out as having been extremely vocal that XBs don't handle well. That's the risk you take when you give an opinion. People may challenge it. With this article and many more, along with multiple race successes, I believe the XB haters are beginning to look a little irrational. | ||
| Choptop |
never said I own all of those bikes, although I do own some. my total stable is 8 at this point... (could be counted as more if you count some rolling chasis/parts bikes).. but 8 currently running. why so many? Because no one is the best for all situations. Each one has their strenghts depending on the task at hand (i.e. the DRZ400 is a horrible touring bike, the FZ1 makes a crappy dirt bike....). I also like riding MANY different types of bikes just to see what they are all about. I may only keep them a few months, doesnt mean I dont like them, just that I got their flavor and dont have time/$/space/effort to keep them all. | ||
| M1combat |
HA... He puts professional in quotes  . Nice touch. Chop... Why do you suppose GP bike geometry is the way it is? Why do you suppose the XB resembles that geometry more closely than ?ANY? other street bike? Why do you suppose that people who have ridden it for more than a little while (and specifically with tires that aren't D207's) seem to love it? Do you think these things may be related? Maybe there's more to the physics than most people can understand? I see a lot of it before me and it looks good. I'll go drink more coolaid (in the rain BTW). | ||
| Cataract2 |
I am concerned about the 3%'ers though. All this positive press may make them obsolete...they may have to upgrade to 4 or 5%'ers. Anything above that would make the hand sign problematic while riding, wouldn't it? Heck no. We're the original 3%er's. I'm not giving up my status. Though, I would sure love the design for a patch or where I can buy a patch with 3%er on it. | ||
| Choptop |
agian,I, nor Vik, have NEVER said the XB doesnt handle well. if you can show me where I said that, please post it and pin me to the wall. But I dont recall saying that. I've ridden they XB, I found it to handle fine, I've ridden other bikes that I've found to handle better. End of story. (Message edited by Choptop on July 29, 2005) | ||
| Choptop |
ok, does that make me a professional? - no quotes motocycle racer? journalist? | ||
| Eor |
I thought I had stumbled into the Archive there for a moment....  | ||
| Choptop |
again, I come back to my original question... what did the magazine say about the bike when it first came out, and why the switch to the "best ever" status. all the other stuff... what I like in a motorcycle doesnt matter cuz I'm not a proffessional I've never beat Cicotto so what I like is wrong I dont race an SV in FUSA Thunderbike so what I like is wrong A comparo where people ride different bikes and make up thier own minds doesnt matter.... all that aside... I wonder why the change? in short.. has anyone bothered to actually READ the artcile? and can anyone tell me what it says? | ||
| M1combat |
I'm mostly sorry to single you out Choptop... really. We were having a good discussion of the merits of the XB and you jumped in and spouted off about the SV being a superior track bike "FOR THE MONEY". I don't exactly care about the money. Not that I'm made of it as such, but we were discussing technical details. We were also discussing street riding. Anyway... Try riding a Buell with good tires. Maybe see if you can secure one for a few days and ride it on public roads (only so you aren't putting someone elses bike through race conditions... that wouldn't be very nice ). A mind IS a lot like a parachute my friend . So you rode one with D207's. Neat. Sorry you didn't like it so much. Now, please go try one with something else for tires. I assure you, it makes a HUGE difference. Heck, go put a set of Buell OEM D207's (I think it's the FU model or something like that?) on your SV and VIOLA!!! Crappy handling SV (unless the SV's relaxed "cruiser like" geometry is more forgiving of them than the XB is... | ||
| Gonen60 |
Choppop, i can't take you serious Man... when your wearing Chaps at a dragstrip !!! (or anytime for that matter)...LOL | ||
| M1combat |
Sorry Eor... I PROBABLY shouldn't have posted that, but I really couldn't resist. | ||
| Choptop |
Choppop, i can't take you serious Man... when your wearing Chaps at a dragstrip !!! (or anytime for that matter)...LOL ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ChopPop is my dad (RIP) The leathers were in the shop.. it was the best I could do at the time  | ||
| Choptop |
here's a better foto...  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Yikes! Look at that pavement. Man, I bet that was a hairy battletrax. But I also bet the XB front end did pretty good on it, all things considered. Al | ||
| Dago |
I think the Ulysses would be better suited for that pavement. | ||
| Choptop |
whatya mean? Thats pool table smooth !!! its the old parking lot at Donner Ski Ranch. *sniff*... I miss that event... it went away before I could ever race in it. But big ups to Reg for letting me ride his bike in Battle Traxx.... P.S. was doing pretty well too, fastest time in the class, until I had to leave...  | ||
| Davegess |
Wow, Bike is one of the tough ones, very strong opinions there so this is quite an endorsement. Of course we all knew it was the best. BTW for all you race track guys; I appreciate your insistance on lap times as the ultimate judge of a bike BUT they don't mean squat in the real world. All they tell you is who was fastest on any given day at a given place. The fastest lap goes to the right combination. This combination includes handling; which I think includes tire grip, tire feel, turn ability, front end feel, back end feel, ultimate front and back end grip, turn in, stability, and a few I forget; horsepower; which includes acceleration in the zones that a particular track favors, top end; and braking which will include not only ultimate braking but feel and controlability. What bike would you you think would be the best handling, a 500 cc two stroke F1 bike or a world superbike from the same era? Which would set the best lap times around a race track? I would pick the GP bike. I think most of you would also. Joey Dunlop had a 500 GP bike at the Isle of Man a few years ago. Fellow knew a bit about racing there. He also had a factory suberbike at his disposal. Ran lots of laps with both. Raced the superbike. It worked better over the bumpy course for him. Easier to race. Does it tell us that one bike was "better" than the other? It tells us what bike worked better for a particular rider on a particular race course. | ||
| M2nc |
I'm no racer, but after riding an XB9R and an XB12R, plus ridding AydenXB9's bike, I can say the XB handling is quite impressive. As far as for testing other bikes against XBs, may I suggest a road at the western end of my state, were HP is negated by continuous curves and very short straight aways. I know, I was very impressed with my M2, low pegs and all on mountain roads. Most road courses have long straight aways, giving those bikes with more HP the advantage on lap times. If this is a handling comparison, there is a Dragon waiting. As for me, I need more seat time on other bikes to say the XB is the best handling bike, but after thrashing a certain Yellow XB9R around Daytona this year, I wouldn't doubt it. | ||
| Choptop |
Hey, we could do the comparo at Willow Springs, and do it on alllll 3 tracks. Big Willow Streets Horse Thief that way all of you track neigh sayers can have your day on all types of surface and turns... as far as the "street" vs. "track" arguement.... it really comes down to what level you take each one to. ANY bike handles well at 30mph stop light to stop light, so whats the point? Go a little faster you say? Ok, most handle well in average around town riding. Faster and a little harder you say? Ok, lets go to the canyons and stir it up a little. even at that, the 1986 FJ1200 sitting in my garage will have the suspension and feel to do that just fine... (and no one ever acused the FJ1200 of being the best handling bike ever by a long shot ). So still you dont really know how a bike can really perform.... so you still need to push harder.... and there is where you run into the problem of saying... "Its fine for the street, its not designed to be a race bike". Because the "street" means different things to different people. It means different levels of riding, speed, risk... on and on. So the way to judge something like handling is to push the bikes to their limits, and see which one falls off the chart first. the place to do that is on the track. The only quantitative way to jusdge is by lap times. If you can squeeze a second out of one bike that another wont allow... it must be "better". Does that mean its "better" for your comoute to work? Nope. Does it mean that its "better" than the second place bike for you to go on a trip to your favorite bike hang out? If you like it better than the other, than its "better". The arguement of "its not about race track, its all about which is better for the street" doesnt hold water on MANY levels. what it really comes down to is which one you LIKE the best, and then thats the BESt bike for you and how/when/where you ride. It doesnt matter a hill of beans what a professional says about it. They can offer some insight, but it still comes down to how YOu compare the bikes. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
I'm no racer, but after riding an XB9R and an XB12R, plus ridding AydenXB9's bike, I can say the XB handling is quite impressive. As far as for testing other bikes against XBs, may I suggest a road at the western end of my state, were HP is negated by continuous curves and very short straight aways. I know, I was very impressed with my M2, low pegs and all on mountain roads. Most road courses have long straight aways, giving those bikes with more HP the advantage on lap times. If this is a handling comparison, there is a Dragon waiting. An R1 holds the record at the dragon for shortest elapsed time. As far as all this back & forth stuff, just because someone buys a bike that a magazine has proclaimed as "best handling" doesnt mean they can extract the same type of performance out of it. I know some cops on their work bikes who would kick the crap out of just about anyone here in the real world. A bike does not posess magical powers that allow anyone who rides it to instantly become Rossi or DuHamel. Far too many people here are shooting their mouths off when they in fact have few miles/few years/ absolutley zero track experience/ or simply are just crummy riders & would have a hard time beating a Vespa. | ||
| Daves |
All I can say is I am sorry I live so far away from CA, I'd love to ride with you guys at Willow or any other track for that matter. Hey Chop give me a call, we need to make hunting plans | ||
| Blake |
Chop, "The arguement of "its not about race track, its all about which is better for the street" doesnt hold water on MANY levels." It holds water on the most serious levels, particularly those involving keeping the bike upright and on the road under challenging and unforseen circumstances. "What it really comes down to is which one you LIKE the best, and then thats the BESt bike for you and how/when/where you ride." Absolutely. "It doesnt matter a hill of beans what a professional says about it. They can offer some insight, but it still comes down to how YOu compare the bikes." It damn sure does matter when it comes to evaluating the merits of innovative new technology in the face of ignorant assertions that Buell is in love with engineering for engineering's sake. When it comes to evaluating the relative performance between the status quo and a new and different motorcycle, it darn sure does matter. Don Canet wrote in Cycle World two years ago that Erik Buell was right, that the XB9R well could be the world's best handling sport bike. Yeah I'm paraphrasing. So this is NOTHING new. It is corroboration. As to your track challenge. You are making the challenge, so I get to pick the track. You know. I think next year's AMA FX competition may further open a lot of eyes and minds. Go Buell!!! You know Alan, a nice "congratulations Buell for the great report" would be nice. Why so much the naysayer? I don't get it. Really unfortunate. Cause I think you are better than that. Why so difficult to recognize that Buell does indeed offer some very real and very valuable technical innovation to the world of sport bike motorcycling? | ||
| M1combat |
Agreed, but the street and the track are two different places (as I'm sure you're aware). The XB has more features that make it more capable on the street than other bikes do. A LOT of this has to do with the reduced (BY A LOT) amount of un-sprung mass in the front end. It also has a lot to do with how the geometry and the gyroscopic precession work together. It obviously works on the track well too. Didn't you watch any of the FX races last year? The Buells were "competitive" with many of the top factory teams. They were more than competitive with the privateer teams (they were privateers themselves essentially). They were CONSISTENTLY measured at FASTER speed mid-corner than the 600's. I personally watched them tend to gain 2-8 feet coming out of the mid speed corners. Why? I could tell that they were able to get on the throttle earlier. I'm sure you understand how important that is in racing... /EDIT - On I watched Barnes pull three feet around the key-hole on EVERY bike he was around except for Cicotto on EVERY lap that the speed channel was so gracious to let me watch. Why? Because there was a bumpy strip of pavement patched into the track around the inside of most of the turn... /EDIT - Off Now please go ride an XB with something other than the stock D207's. Thank you. Until you do, you have NO room whatsoever to talk (professional status or not). I've put 15K miles on an XB12. I've played with the suspension. The subjects of suspension geometry and racing have been my passion for YEARS. I took ONE look at an XB12 on paper and looked through the geometry specs and immediately thought "Wow... This bike should handle with the best of them at the least." It does (although I was a tad bit dissapointed until I swapped tires). MOST people who have given the bike half a chance tend to agree. "Hey, we could do the comparo at Willow Springs, and do it on alllll 3 tracks. " You're getting closer... How about the Dragon, 191N from Moriency mine in AZ and Hwy 78 over the mountain and through the deserts of SoCal? But guess what? Apparently we don't need to. "Bike" magazine (and many others that I've read) seem to think the XB handles superbly already. I understand what you mean about lap times being "a" measuring stick that certainly seems to be able to put bikes somewhere near their place. I understand driving on the limit and traction circles and energy management and that stuff too. I understand that subtleties will be brought out in a chassis when you're on the limit. I also understand that some people like front -engined cars and some people like mid-engined cars. That doesn't change the fact that mid-engined cars are superior on tarmac. If there's one thing I've learned about the XB... It really rewards proper technique. (Message edited by m1combat on July 29, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
" just because someone buys a bike that a magazine has proclaimed as "best handling" doesnt mean they can extract the same type of performance out of it." VERY much agreed Greg. Very much. I feel that the more capable a vehicle is, though, the more performance a person with their current level of skill can extract from it. "I think next year's AMA FX competition may further open a lot of eyes and minds. Go Buell!!! " | ||
| M2nc |
I will have to take your word on that Dyna, though I am surprised. Gixxers have always out handled R1s, and now ZX10Rs out horse them. I would of though one of those bikes would have such a record. I have co-workers that have recently bought ZX-10R, they complain that it does not handle as well as their 6s they traded in. Also, most Motorcycle mags try to hang the subjective "Best Sport Bike" crown on the GXR750R. If you look at the numbers (please, no carnage just making a point) 600s have better cornering speed than liter bikes, and since the GXR750R is a 600 with 20hp more, most moto-journalists hang there hat on it. Only experience I had with an R1 was at Suches GA. In the Valleys, I was in his way, on the passes I would lose him, but that is just a couple of inexperienced novices and by no means any measure of machine, though a group of about 20, two-stroke RG500s that were also there got a kick out of it. | ||
| LORETTA |
Y'know... Willow might make some sense - get some bikes (an assortment) into the hands of a number of folks, trade off... But even that is arguable. I'm lazy. I like twins. I got used to the SV and XB in racing and in truth, I'd be slower on an R1 or gixxer of any persuasion - I've ridden a number of friend's bikes on and off the track and to tell the truth, I can't adapt quickly enough to give a fair assesment of a non-twin (I-4) power delivery on the track. It takes me a full day to "get" the handling and power delivery of a different bike (assuming it's properly setup to begin with) The editors of RRW have a great staff and they can hit a track pretty hard and do a pretty legit comparo of different bikes - don't think I really could The idea of a 3-track week-long camp does sound pretty cool. We could do it at Willow for about a $grand$ apiece for 20 riders - totally private sessions and 3 ambulances and cornerworkers and all 3 tracks for 5 days. I can do some legwork with the mags on getting it into print. Maybe even some sorta sponsorship/kickback. I can get an SV racebike, a gixxer 750 racebike, a 749 Ducati streetbike, the Lavin-Yurassov XB1169, prolly find an XB12 (the one I would have borrowed just burned up in a house fire) - an Aprilia Falco, an RC51 racebike, (note the tendency toward twins) and a couple vintage Honda Interceptors. Might even be able to lay hands on an Aprilia RS250 (Message edited by slaughter on July 29, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
Loretta yurasov, beavis.... |
