| Author | Message | ||
     Eor |
....These police officers have better things to do than deal with the idiot public and their f-ing attitude.... Majority of the public are clueless ignorant idiots. Zap em into line I say. Funny thing is, I'm trying out for the Sheriff's Dept.!! Sorry it's long, I just get so pissed at people. Uh...you might consider opting out of the essay portion of the Sheriff's Dept. psychological evaluation.  | ||
| Interceptor |
I myself have put some thought into being a police officer like my father was. Just cant do it, I have too much fun breaking the law  I do appreciate the hard working , honest, good cops out there. But in this case, what threat did that girl pose? please tell me. 2 cops with a clear view of what she was doing ( talking on a phone). "Zap em into line I say"....fascist | ||
| Jon |
Wow. I can't believe there is someone else who is a THX1138 fan. In my view the greatest Sci-Fi film ever. As far as the tazing goes, those cops should be fired and tazed...twice. They couldn't spend more time on the situation so they tazed her. They could have wrestled her out, or anything else. I'm conservative, have seven friends in law enforcement, five of whom serve in Hayward, a nice place for violent crime and murder. I know from hearing their stories and watching during ride alongs that they would have spent more time on that situation. The fact that the woman was stupid has no bearing. Those cops were not in any danger of anything, other than losing patience, which is what they did. Pathetic. They can put "command presence" into the boy, but they can't take the boy of "command presence". | ||
| Mutt2jeff |
Why should the policemen have to wrestle with her? They would only be risking injury to themselves and the woman. They have a tazer so that, rather than fight: kick, pull, scratch and brawl around with her, they can take the fight right out of a suspect so nobody gets hurt. She got several clear warnings to put down the phone so the police could talk with her, and then she got several clear warnings to get out of the car. She didnt want to get out, so they shocked her, and she flopped out like a fish. No harm done. | ||
| Loki |
Interceptor Go back and listen to the commentary and the questions and answers with the reporter types. You may understand the why-fors then. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I am all for zapping that smart mouthed girl. Lucky it didn't happen in Milwaukee, lately the cops have been shooting everybody.... | ||
| Oddbawl |
"I am all for zapping that smart mouthed girl. " If you gotta taze someone to diffuse a situation fine, but "zapping a smart mouthed girl" sounds like punishment. I'm pretty sure it's up to the courts and due process to punish not cops. That's one of the cores of a democratic society. It looked to me like the cops wailing on Rodney King were trying to teach him a lesson, but this cop was doing his job. | ||
| Brucelee |
There is no reason that the police should have to risk ANY injury in pulling this moron out of here car. She received very clear instructions and chose to ignore them. The police have to assume the worse from folks as that is what they often get (local cop was just shot to death in a "routine" car stop. I was fine about the taxing. Perhaps she will now know how to follow instructions. | ||
| Buelluk |
She was as dumb as dirt ! | ||
| Sportyeric |
Given her lack of obedience to the law and the police, I'm surprised she didn't drive away, at speed. We've had numerous deaths from car thiefs, and other trash, running red lights and driving like idiots, whether pursued or not. That woman showed every sign of being in that league. She needed to be removed from control of that vehicle and any other until she changes her attitude about the laws and the people who enforce them. Additionally, I think that her speed in itself wasn't excessive. Usually you'd just get a warning at that speed around here. Especially if you're polite to the officers. But chatting on a cell-phone at the same time raises the stakes. (Message edited by Sportyeric on June 08, 2005) | ||
| U4euh |
How many of you listened to the audio commentary from Officer Aiken? Who is Black. He stated every reason why pepper spray, baton, and even pulling the subject out of the vehicle was not used. They make a lot of sense to me, BUT on the womans behalf, that does not look like the hood of a police car, I don't know the area and the type of vehicles they use. If my wife was being pulled over by let's say a Dodge Magnum, which I believe was posted here a time back, that some departments are using, and was intimidated by the fact that this normal appearing car has flashing red and blues, I would stand behind her on her judgement. I believe the girl did what she thought was best, she was not talking to a boyfriend or girlfriend, she picked the phone up and called her mother and was explaining everything that was happening, I believe the officer could have used a second or two to realize what state the driver was in. AND yes I know that a policeman is trained to be careful on every stop, they have to be, there are too many dumba$$ kids that would rather shoot them than listen to them, but just given the camera's point of view I think that it is hard to make a judgement. Did the woman believe that they were really the police, don't know, put an unmarked behind me that I am not use to, I'll be hesitant myself. Were the police right in making the tazer decision, probably, could they have given the woman a chance to speak, yes, that whole incident from the time he walked up to the door, to the time he opened the door was more like an infiltration to a hostage situation, count the seconds. | ||
| Buelluk |
The car may have been a plain wrapper, but the officers were clearly in uniform and identified themselves by name and unit when she bleated at them. If she didnt believe it was a LEO following her she should have proceeded at a legal speed until she spotted a black and white or a precinct house. She was clearly speeding and an acknowledged scofflaw, she doesn't deserve any sympathy, she knew what she was doing . | ||
| Doughnut |
Lucky it didn't happen in Milwaukee, lately the cops have been shooting everybody.... Taking their test this Saturday. If she was that worried, why did she not call 911 and tell them that she thought she was being pulled over by fake cops? What was her mom going to do?The fact that she was a small woman does not make her a non-threat. | ||
| Nadz |
"Put the gun down, sir... Right. Now." BZZZZTTTT "Step out of the vehicle, ma'am... Too slow." BZZZZTTTT BZZZZTTTT "Eat your peas, son..." BZZZZTTTT BZZZZTTTT BZZZZTTTT Gotta draw the line somewhere. Any officer worth his salt knows a few come-along techniques. Anyone trusted with the means for violence must show the utmost in restraint. I'd have waited two minutes and saved a lawsuit. Until the general public sees the results on TV a few hundred times, the general public is not going to respond to "Show me your license or I'll taze you." With all that being said, I'd like to see 'em zap every damn cell-phone-talking, smoking, non-signaling, etc etc, fool. Sorry for the novel, (flame shields on). -NadZ | ||
| Sardawg2dpd |
We don't need anymore Trooper Mark Coates incidents. Amen! We just had a fellow officer almost get killed. He faught with a guy twice his size got knocked out, and disarmed. The bad guy even told our officer he was going to kill him. Fortunatley our officer passed out and the bad guy thought he already had so he took off to go kill his girlfriend. When he saw additional squads coming he jumped in our officers car and took off. Realizing he had no escape from the parking lot he was in he shot himself with our officers duty weapon taking his own life. Our officer just got out of the hospital late last week. He said he thought about shooting the bad guy but for a split second, the thought of all the grief he would have went though he thought twice. Luckly it ended the way it did and my partner is going to be ok. The negitivity the media puts on officers today, is why more and more are getting killed in the line of duty. Our officer was very experienced with the job and was not a small guy by any means. Its amazing what people will do when they are hell bent on something. As for me I have been an officers for 9 years. The taser is a beautifull tool for us. There have been many occasions where I have pulled my gun and the bad guys say "What you gonna do, shoot me?" They know were not. So I re-holster and take out the taser. BAM!!!! Its amazing all of the sudden they go from "What you gonna do" to (Hands staright in the air) "OK OK JUST DONT HIT ME WITH THAT THING PLEASE !!!! I"LL DO WHAT YOU SAY" Sorry to ramble but I have a five year old son, and a beautiful and wonderful wife, that I tell myself everyday "No matter what happens, I am going home at the end of the day." It's just sad that we have to think about the grief we get from our actions, even though they are right. SAR | ||
| Sardawg2dpd |
Nadz, Come along tech's don't seem to work as well as they used to. Taser is a a wonderfull and usefull tool that saves us from attempting to do a come along tech and somehow getting hurt. SAR | ||
| Blake |
When I initially viewed the hyperlinked video clip that started this thread, I was kinda thinking that the officer might have used a little more patience in dealing with the fool woman. Then I watched the other videos that showed the whole scene from the very beginning of the stop where right from the start the fool woman was defiant, argumentative, and combative. Tazer fully justified. Good job officer. | ||
| Bbstacker |
Let's think about this for a minute. A lit cigarette is a weapon. Not a lethal one but a weapon all the same. The officer did right to repeat the command and inform the woman of the result of noncompliance. Kudos to him for diffusing the situation before it got any more out of hand. And kudos to him for doing it in a non-lethal way. Just my humble opinion, but what more conclusive proof do you need that Charles Darwin was wrong. Referring, of course, to the arrestee. | ||
| Ingemar |
I just wish cops over here would resolve these situations as promptly as this one did. We have several tv programs about cops dealing with situations on the road. Some from the States, some UK and some local. The contrast of how a situation is dealt with here and in the States is huge. Over here, they give up a chase too easily arguing safety is more important. If someone is pulled over with no ID, no license, they talk for hours accepting insults, threats, unreasonable arguments, obvious lies etc etc. | ||
| Raraf |
I disagree with you Sardawg. More and more cops are getting killed because people are getting fed up with them and the media loves anything cop related. A cop was recently killed in Denver for not allowing a moronic father in to see his daughter's christening. But the saddest thing is that a kid was killed in another part of Denver on the same day and no news media, no cop investigation. The kid was killed trying to stop a fight. The poor father had to pass out his own flyers. The media and cops are too focused on the cop killer. Sad. One person tries to be a good Samaritan and disappears another one was acting like a jerk and I can't even watch the weather without hearing about him(God bless those lil LEOs!). Sorry to ramble but I have two little girls and a beautiful and wonderful wife, that when I meet a cop I tell myself everyday "No matter what happens, I hope I am going home at the end of the day." It's just sad about all the grief I would get from my actions even though it is right. | ||
| Sardawg2dpd |
Raraf, I think you missed what I was intending. Maybe my fault for not explaining well. I agree that the media is focused on anything cop realted. At the same time, the true victims and heros go unnoticed. The sad thing is that with all the media attention we get it makes our job alot harder. I don't even watch the news anymore because more then half the time they don't have the whole story and say things that sound good to draw and audience. I do agree that there are not nice cops out there, but there are those of us who do our job because we love the fact that we get to help people out no matter what. THere are alos those of us who go beyond our call to help people out. We all have our opinon's, the one thing I always tell people is "Just because you have one or two bad experiences with the police, don't take it out or judge all of us that where the badge." SAR | ||
| Newxb9er |
Like life, nothing on this planet is perfect. We will never have a perfect anything. Never have 100% perfect LEO's, Never have 100% perfect citizens. That being said, if you are an honest person, you have to respect everyone until they give you a reason not to. Just live your life as honest as you can. | ||
| Bandm |
Ya mess with the bull, Ya get the horn So in the video in the link above the cops should have just followed this guy until he ran out of bullets and gas? (Message edited by BandM on June 11, 2005) | ||
| Sportyeric |
Naaah! Watching that one more time, I think that the cop could have been calmer and told the lady to chill out take a deep breath, and so on. To calm the situation down rather than escalate it. I don't think there was a major safety concern. I think he deliberately kept the pressure on her so he could do as he did as a pay-back for her intial moves (keeping the door open and sassing him about it, talking on the cell, etc.) And I would have done exactly the same, given her •••••• attitude. But I would know that it was not my best. I've had days when dealing with the public that I could stir things up just by "doing my job" and some people really have it coming. But you do keep the moral high ground by refraining anyway. There's stories that you laugh about with the family at dinner and stories that you lie awake thinking about your best course of action. And sometimes they're the same ones. | ||
| Aesquire |
Although I fully understand the desire, sometimes the need, to give some orifice a good shocking, the actions that are seen in the clip ( linked above ) only, ( not the rest of the video, just the edited clip ) do not justify assault with a less-lethal weapon. I'm conflicted on this. She was a spoiled brat, and willfully challenged the police officer with less than instant response to fairly reasonable demands. Not sure if a crime is involved, she may be emotionally "challenged" and actually incapable of responding in a rational, obedient manner to 2 yelling men. Is the world a better place now that she's been given electric shocks & we can see the results of defying the police & finishing your phone call? On the other hand, it seems that she richly deserves to find that actions actually have consequences. I also think it would have taken less time to deal with this motorist in a calm patient manner, than to deal with the paperwork involved in using a weapon. like I said, conflicted. | ||
| Loki |
No conflict with me... Her attitude was set even before the officer stepped up to the vehicle. That attitude was not going to be swayed to a more positive note, just listen to her. -...you can't do this -...you messed with my brother -...no I will not put the phone down She knew what she was doing. Tell me she did not know her license was suspended. It was probably suspended for not paying/going to court for the last speeding ticket. of course this is but my humble opinion based on my own experiences. | ||
| Court |
Greg: I moved it. Any questions, drop me a e-mail. Court | ||
| Raraf |
Sardawg, if it weren't for the media exposing how corrupt cops are, a cop's word would still be considered gospel in court instead of it now getting exposed for the liars some of them are. I have NO criminal record. I received 1 traffic ticket 8 years ago for an improper lane change. I have over 200 "bad experiences" with cops. I don't have to judge ... I know. They ALL have the same mental framework of wanting to abuse power and to be worshipped. One changed though. He was a jerk until a van almost killed him on his motorcycle. I can stomach his presence now. A lot of people believe they need more monitoring. Not me. I just want it to be legal to level the playing field. An idiot mouths off a cop ... a cop can retaliate. A cop profiles me and tears my car apart...let me correct the error of his ways. I have to stomach "yes sir" and "no sir" even though they are no better than me. A moderator here considers them Gods because they "help" people... IT'S THEIR FRIGGIN JOBS! Same as a Garbage Collector or the guy who separates baby chicks by looking at their genitalia. I don't expect a medal every time I write software. | ||
| Jon |
I have several pals who are cops. I knew most of them before they became cops. Half of them went through an unfortunate personality change as a result of becoming cops. No, it wasn't from years of being hardened by a tough thankless job, it happened right after acadamy graduation. It was all bluff and phoney bravado. It has taken a few years, but most of them have slowly retuned to some kind of resemblence of their former selves. I am thankful. It is an unfortunate reality that a lot of cops take the command presence training as a way of life. However, in their defense, they have to be "badder" than the bad guys. But being a cop also means being able to practise extreme patience and discernment. That's where I believe these two gallant Tazer dudes went awry. Tazers can be deadly too, in case you didn't know. In the end, was it worth it? What if she had died? They zapped her twice. WOuld all the arguements above still be made if this woman had been killed? I think we should follow this incident to see how it pans out. I bet she sues... | ||
| Court |
I'd be embarrased to admit, absent a weapon, that I was unable to extract a lady from an auto. I'm aware of the dissenting "she may have been armed" arguments but I'd have veiwed the "phone in one hand, waving me away with the other" and evidence that both hands (a big thing on the "to do" list when arresting someone) were otherwise occupied. Strange world. |
