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Mike_lee
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 05:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

someone were to put washers between the front mount and the head and torqued the bolts to spec? these washers are the ones that are made for the outside of the mount from st paul. do they need to be removed? can the bolts be reused as the bike hasn't been started and therefore not been through any heat cycles?
I should mention that there are the same washers on the head of the bolt where they belong.
asking for a friend : )

(Message edited by mike lee on December 20, 2018)
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Kc_zombie
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oops. Should be ok to remove and re torque.
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Mike_lee
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks man...
ill pass along the info ; )
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Screamer
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A washer between the mount and the head may reduce the contact area and permit "rocking" which could lead to failure of the joint.
Two reasons that the washer was added to that joint was to increase the clamp load area (washer area vs. underside of bolt head area) and to deepen the bolt hole/shorten the bolt by adding the thickness of the washer. During investigation of failures it was discovered that the bolts were bottoming out in some heads before achieving proper clamp load - even though the recommended torque was reached. Without correct clamp load, the bolt could rock and eventually break. Another failure caused by the bolt hole being "too shallow" is the right side bolt hole boss fracturing due to the bolt being torqued without clamp load resistance ("spreading" and fracturing the hole).
The bolts are (theoretically) never to be re-used because, like many fasteners, they are considered a one time stretch and if re-used will not retain a proper clamp load.
A few suggestions to reduce potential failure of this joint (during a repair) is to verify that the mounting surfaces on the head and bracket are flat and have a flush, gapless "mating". Also, install new bolts without the bracket (little or no torque) and confirm the distance between the head surface and the underside of the bolt head is less than the combined thickness of the bracket and the washer. Use new bolts and the correct washer.
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Mike_lee
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok...so i confess. It was i.
Im sure everyone knew this hehe
I took the washers out, cleaned up the threads in the heads and ordered new bolts. I kinda figured i should use new ones anyway, i just didnt wana wait for them to arrive.
But it is winter and the bike isnt goin anywhere for a few months.
Thanks for all the advice
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nicely explained sir Screamer.

Thank you.
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Indeed
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Screamer
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks (I blame the second cup of coffee).
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1313
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2018 - 07:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes. EXCELLENT info from Screamer!
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Upthemaiden
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2018 - 08:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Ok...so i confess. It was i. "

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Mike_lee
Posted on Friday, December 21, 2018 - 08:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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