| Author | Message | ||
     Odd |
what would I gain if I put the cams they put in the export m2 cyclones, B cams. Would I have to change the timing plate? | ||
| Ratbuell |
What's your goal in swapping, do you already have B cams? If you're going to the trouble to swap...for my money, I'd put something with a little more top end in them. S1W or X1 cams - little less low end grunt (the M2 was tuned specifically for low end torque), but lots more HP up top. The timing plate doesn't need to be changed, but you'll likely have to re-set any timing settings for the different cams, regardless of what you install. I have a heavy-flywheel motor (original equipment) in my '95 S2. I installed a thunderstorm top end with X1 cams and an S1W ignition module and have been extremely happy with it. Revs a little slower than the later, light-flywheel engines...but it's a great tourer with nice long legs on the highway, and plenty of grunt and HP for the twisties, even fully loaded and/or 2-up. Key with any cam swap is, identify what you want to be different in your powerband first. More HP? More torque? Flatter powerband overall? More top end; more bottom end? Once you identify your goal...then you can hit some supplier websites and narrow down your cam specs. If you already have B cams...unfortunately I can't be much help because I don't know their specs offhand. Maybe one of the other old-timers like me will have more information for you. | ||
| Odd |
I thought B cams were in S1W and X1? | ||
| Ratbuell |
If that's the case...you will lose low end torque but increase high end HP. It won't be torque "deficient" by any means, and its a nice tradeoff considering the high-RPM power you get. But...I don't think X1 and S1W shared cams, I think the EFI grind was different than the carb grind. I could be wrong...it's been years since I was looking into this stuff when I built my S2 engine. | ||
| Odd |
I've got a set of w cams and a set of B cams I was going to change the worm gear and thought as long as I was in there, there might be a better choice for cams | ||
| Ratbuell |
OK, with the help of google, I found this thread from ten years ago: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/3 09854.html?1191276206 Looks like B cams are X1 cams. Also looks like, judging by my post in that thread, I installed 15 grind cams in my S2. A google of "buell 15 cams" brought up this thread: http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php? t=10889 which says a few posts down "factory guys call these "B" cams but they ain't got no B on 'em, they're labeled 15-1, 15-2, 15-3, and 15-4. Literally Andrews N4 cams with different markings." So...looks like B's are what I put in my S2, just didn't call 'em that at the time. And for kicks, from Andrews: http://www.andrewsproducts.com/sites/www.andrewspr oducts.com/files/catalog_pdfs/2014-page25.pdf I believe stock M2 cams are N2 equivalent. And according to their chart...the W grind is the same as the D grind. No bonus there, but nice stock spares if you manage to wipe one. | ||
| Odd |
yes I'm a old factory guy, a W grind was never the same as a D grind you can see a diffence.the factory did go to putting W grind in all sportsters but I can't remember the year. | ||
| Screamer |
I seldom hear it but in the H-D lettering protocol - the X1 and later S3 cams are called "B" cams. I think (not sure - would have to search) that the B designation came when cam production moved from the supplier to in-house production (for Buell cams). There was also a tweak to the lobe profile that changed total lift (not peak lift) and was good for a mild increase in mid-range torque - HP or maybe both (can't remember for sure). "B" cams, S1, S3, X1 cams, Screamin Eagle Bolt-In and Andrews N4 cams are essentially the same lobe profile. I can find catalogs and I-sheets that show some variability in lift (.480 vs. 490 vs. 497) but we generally used the .490 number. Screamin' Eagle valve lift specs changed (now .497) for bolt-in cams when a change in theoretical rocker arm ratio was implemented for the catalog specs - even though the cam lift stayed the same. I think that was about 2000-2002. S2 cams and M2 cams were the "D" profile - same as XL at the time. Other early S1/S3 Buell cams were sometimes marked with "SE-15" (Bolt-In). The W cams were used in 1998-2003 Sportster Sport, Buell Blasts and 2007 and later XL883, 2004 and later XL1200 Two downsides to the X1 or "Bolt-In" cams are a softening in bottom-end torque and the potential (but not always) for cam gear fitment noise. | ||
| Odd |
so is there any gain by putting the W cams in? Just looking for a little more HP and torque. Like I said I have to change the worm gear and have the cams anyway | ||
| Basti |
If you want to sell the B cams please let me know ive got an engine with worn B cams so im in need of replacement Thanks | ||
| Odd |
mine are not for sale but Lance has some on E-Bay for sale | ||
| Lakes |
I have an export M2, the cams it cam with SE cams same as Andrews N4. mid range Torque cam will work with stock 10.1 comp. good cam if you like riding 3,000 & up like i do i think riding at lower than 3,000 on a Buell hard on bottom end bearings. | ||
| Lakes |
thought i would mention, i used SE 1.73 ratio rockers, these just look like stock rockers and they give the export cam more Toque in lower rev & mid rev range. i have a dyno pint out somewhere, i put mine on friends DJ250i it had a nice torque curve and smooth power curve have a woods modified CV44 carb on S*S manifold 94HP 78ft tQ | ||
| Screamer |
Jim, W cams are a bottom end cam - they have (per some notes I found) about 8 degrees less duration on the intake and about 7 degrees more on the exhaust (than D cams). They won't make more HP, but have more bottom end - but - the power tapers off earlier. | ||
| Odd |
so many choices,not sure which way to go, or if I should even change the cams now. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Which brings us full circle to my first question: WHAT IS YOUR END GOAL? If you're happy with the bike...leave it be. Take it for a few rides. Make mental notes, like "hm, wish the power would keep going here instead of fading out", or "wow, I could have used more grunt for that passing maneuver; wish I didn't have to downshift". Swapping parts just to swap parts never ends well. If you can't identify something you don't like now...leave it. Because I bet if that's the case now, and you make a fairly noticeable change to the powerband like swapping cams...you'll notice something you don't like in the new powerband. And then you've wasted time, and have to waste time again to put it all back the way it was. If it ain't broke...well... | ||
| Hootowl |
Great advice there. | ||
| Odd |
I was thinking low end torque, I have a sportster with the B cams,heavy flywheel,bike comes on at a lower rpm verses my other sportster with a I think a 08 flywheel and E cams they come on at4-5000 rpm its also setup as a 984,But I think you are right best to leave a good thing alone. | ||
| Lakes |
Odd & easy trick to liven low end Toque is buy the SE 1.73 ratio rockers, opens & closes valves quicker to produce Toque, also opens valve more so put a silver weld rod through plug hole check clearance but stock thunderstorm stock cams it would fit with lot of clearance. I remember buellistic used high ratio roller rockers to get more at rev he road at. another easy way to get more at lower rev is put one less tooth gear box drive sprocket. | ||
| Odd |
I might try the rocker arms, |
