| Author | Message | ||
     Steveford |
I think you're going to end up taking them out no matter what you do. | ||
| Harleyelf |
You might pour acetone or marvel mystery oil down the pushrod tubes and turn the motor over a few times with the starter (plugs out), then change the oil. I'd go straight to pulling the lifters and disassembling them. (Message edited by harleyelf on September 15, 2015) | ||
| S2forever |
I will study FSM to get an idea. Will pull them this weekend. Any helpful tips are welcome. | ||
| S2forever |
Changed oil and rode for test. No change. Disassembled tappet for rear exhaust:  I have "gently" tapped it on wood to take piston out. I am not sure when it broke, is it made of brittle metal or old oil broke it, or just accidental coincidence? I will be surprised if I broke it by tapping. That broken washer with holes seems still usable for this season, I wish. Otherwise tappets look perfectly clean and fine. Anyway cleaned-up 2 rear side tappets are taking bath now. Mysterious. (Message edited by s2forever on September 20, 2015) | ||
| S2forever |
Installed cleaned up rear tappets. No change. Cleaned up front tappets. No change. What else can I do while waiting for a new tappet to come in? | ||
| Jim2 |
Did you already replace the exhaust gaskets with new ones? When they leak they can sound just like metal taping. They don't cost much. | ||
| S2forever |
No, I just tightened it. I will do it as you suggest. | ||
| S2forever |
New exhaust gaskets made no difference either. | ||
| Alfau |
Sadly the manufacturer skimped on every possible avenue to make a profit and as a result the bikes don't last very long at all. Good looks and loud noise plus unreliability alone won't get you to work every day on time. It is possible to spend a small fortune and improve things somewhat. Your problem sounds like the cam cover has to come off. God knows what you'll find. Don't rush in. Use the manual. Ps. don't shoot the messenger. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Have you looked at the cam follower bearings? Perhaps you have a wobbler. | ||
| S2forever |
I will replace rear exhaust tappet (probably in 2 weeks) and will see. Now I suspect something inside rear jug (noise seems to come around it), but pulling cam cover off seems easier to do than looking into rear cylinder. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Remember to drain the oil before pulling the cam cover. | ||
| S2forever |
Is "cam follower" tappet roller? Rear exhaust tappet roller was not smooth when removed but after cleaned up it became smooth again. I will replace it with new one in 2 weeks anyway. (Message edited by s2forever on October 06, 2015) | ||
| Steveford |
Yes. | ||
| S2forever |
Rear exhaust tappet replaced. No difference. I am going to pull rear head, cylinder and piston to see what is going on there. | ||
| S2forever |
Pulled rear head and cylinder. While doing so, found one thing strange; The head bolt close to exhaust port was loose. I never pulled head since new, how could it be loose? Is it the source of metallic noise? I will see next weekend. BTW, cylinder, piston and pin, and rod looked fine. (Message edited by s2forever on October 25, 2015) | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Any sign on head gasket of leaking? | ||
| S2forever |
No oil around head gasket made me think it was ok, but probably I should look for something else. There was no obvious sign of leaking but I will check again. | ||
| S2forever |
Coming soon. Or later. | ||
| S2forever |
Bump, coming soon. | ||
| S2forever |
I've got no experience with engine at all but here is my hypothesis: Rear cylinder was twisted so bad that piston was "hitting" cylinder wall to make distinctive metallic noise.  Pic and measurement of twisted rear cylinder are coming soon. Expert chime in please. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It looks like it was made to be hot but not actually scuffed. I can't think of anything that would heat the skirt other than friction but I don't see scuffing. It's a head scratcher, that's for sure. How do the ring lands look? My ironhead developed a clicking ticking sound and it was the ring lands had collapsed allowing the rings to break and rattle around. The mechanic told me it all fell out in his hand when he took the jug off. (Message edited by natexlh1000 on December 23, 2015) | ||
| S2forever |
Thanks for the comment. Ring lands look fine. BTW, I found somewhat serious (to my unexperienced eyes) scratches in area above the first ring. It is rear cylinder exhaust side.  It is definitely worse than intake side. I do not have information on the other piston right now though. Here is a pic showing the rear cylinder is severely distorted. Iron liner is sticking out at exhaust side (I measured it but actually forgot exact number);  Korean summer is quite hot at around 95 F high. And quite often I got trapped in congestion. I do not know why one head bolt (rear exhaust side) is loose but it is obvious the total sum is the distorted cylinder. I have pulled out gear case and found nothing wrong. The above pictures may not tell anything about the metallic noise but I "would like to believe" that piston slapping due to cylinder distortion is the culprit. Or there must be a bell hidden somewhere in my motor. | ||
| S2forever |
Many on the internet say that metallic noise heard only when engine warmed up is likely by piston slapping. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Don't know what your plan's or budget is ,but you could remove the front head and cylinder to ,have the cylinders checked for out of roundness ect Have them honed or bored to next size and also new piston rings or oversize piston etc and check the heads to. And then put it back together and ride on. | ||
| S2forever |
I am going for Thunderstorm upgrade. They were on the shelf for long time collecting dust. I felt guilty of replacing almost new components. Now I have enough reason. However it will be good to know what caused that annoying noise. At least I don't want to hear that same noise after thunderstorm upgrade. It will be nightmare. | ||
| Phelan |
That cylinder mark actually looks like somehow that portion of the cylinder wasn't getting enough oil and it got hot. If the piston was rubbing or hitting it you would have scuffing, which you don't. The area above the first ring on the piston is exposed to the combustion in the chamber, and gets carbon buildup. This portion of the piston is considerably smaller OD than the skirt and would never touch the cylinder wall, so it's a non-issue. | ||
| Phelan |
That iron liner is definitely distorted, and separated from the aluminum. You see that all the time with stock cylinders. If you ever cut one in half vertically, you can see just how thin that liner is (~1/8") and how small the retaining lips are at the top and bottom. NRHS and Hammer iron lined cylinders have twice the minimum thickness, but the way they are molded, the iron has about 20 retention lips. Basically the outer edge of the iron liner looks more like a serrated blade, with the thickest portions being up to 1/4" thick. I found a very neat product the other from DK customs. While I don't think this is the primary source of noise, the price is right and it should help quiet down your motor elsewhere since you have it apart already. It's called Rocker Lockers. It's basically a brass bush in that is pressed into the bolt holes of the rocker arms, picking up the slack so that rocker movement no longer allows the the rocker arm pin to tap the bolt, which it normally does constantly. I'll get you link in just a sec. | ||
| Phelan |
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/Rocker-Lockers_c21 5.htm | ||
| S2forever |
I am sure that the noise is not from rocker box. It is hard to tell by picture but wrinkles on the tarnished spot and skirt periphery on exhaust side are half gone. Wrinkles on the other side and the other piston are better relatively. There are continuous rub marks around area above first ring, indicating it is touching cylinder wall. It does not necessarily mean it is hitting wall to make noise that I heard but it DOES mean it is touching wall at least. |
