| Author | Message | ||
     Kev_m |
OK, so late last year I picked up this extremely clean, nicely equipped Buell S3T on a whim.  I'm torn on whether or not to keep the bike honestly. On the pro side it is powerful/fast, unique, a good looker, has a decent sport-touring riding position, and is nicely appointed: * Buell Race ECM * Buell Race Muffler * Buell idle adjuster extension * Corbin Seat * Taller Windscreen * Fiam horn It's a seriously unmolested bike in very nice shape. I really just LOVE the fact that it is a piece of motorcycle history. A mostly hand built beauty made around a worked version of the Harley motor I seem to love the most. So on that alone I'm very tempted to keep it around if only as a occasional hooligan toy. On the flip side, the thing is I know there are two things I'm NOT 1. A sportbike rider 2. A loud pipe guy It sits rather high (not that I have any trouble with it, I've just consciously started to notice that I prefer the lower seat height of Harleys and classics more than say sport or adventure tourers). Of course it is rock solid in the turns and has excellent brakes and suspension. Did I mention it is powerful? I've got nothing but a butt dyno to judge this on. No dyno runs etc., though I have chased some sport bikes who looked very surprised/pissed to not be able to get away. I bought it with winter on the way, and so only got to run a couple of tankfulls last fall and early in this past spring when huge changes in my life found it (and 3 of our 4 bikes) in storage for most of this spring and summer. So it's only the past month or so that I've been able to really start to get to know it again and run it in warmer temps. I was surprised when I stopped for fuel the other day... low fuel light came on around 150 miles, and I filled up by 165, but put a full 5 gallons in it. Meaning it's getting only 33 mpg. Granted, my right wrist probably has a TON to do with that. But it's also because those life changes took me from twisty, hilly, Buell paradise to long, straight, flat, south Jersey. With all that said I THINK I can get around the fact that it is a Sportbike and not really my nature. The cool factor it oozes to me and its performance more than make up for that. So I THINK it comes down to one thing. The Buell race pipe does sound sweet. But it seriously detracts from my enjoyment of the bike. I am very vocal in my preference for stock or near stock exhaust systems as courtesy to my neighbors and hell, just so I don't give myself a damn headache riding it. So IF I'M GOING TO KEEP THIS BIKE, I THINK I NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PIPE! My questions are 1. Is there a quieter alternative available (I haven't checked but assume there are no NOS OEM mufflers lying around anymore)? I have seen that it is possible to replace the packing, maybe I can order replacement packing and try to quiet this one down to a reasonable level? Or maybe there is an aftermarket one that is more reasonable in sound level? and 2. It certainly seems as if the race ECM is doing a fine job in this form. Anyone have an idea how badly I might screw that up with a more restrictive muffler? Certainly the 33 mpg suggests to me the thing is dumping fuel, but since there are literally no other negative signs I suspect it's tuned well as it is. I don't want to screw up a perfectly good running bike by choking it at the muffler and since I'm also pretty sure stock ECMs are probably unavailable and any aftermarket solution would likely be more similar to the race ECM that's probably not an option either. So the question is, does anyone know if I can successfully tone this bike down without ruining it, or should I just sell the damn thing to someone who will appreciate it as a snarling beast?  | ||
| Phelan |
Why does it have an Idle adjuster extension? Is it not still DDFI? It sounds like it may have been converted to carb, likely a Mikuni at that. Mikunis have excellent throttle response, but are not known to get good mileage, especially closer to sea level. FWIW though, I don't know much about the DDFI systems, and the bike looks beautifully unmolested, so maybe the idle adjustment was an option for DDFI? I dunno. That muffler is actually the Buell Pro Series pipe, and worth some coin if you decide to sell it once you find a stock muffler. You can find them on eBay from time to time, but also post up a want ad in the classifieds for one. Once you do that, you might also look for a stock ECM to compliment the stock muffler, and if the bike is indeed still DDFI, that should help your mileage quite a bit. Mind you this will put you down on power a little, but not too bad. (Message edited by Phelan on September 22, 2014) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
FI bikes have an idle adjustment via extension that adjusts the stop for the throttle body. Keep the bike, put a quieter muffler on it and ride - it won't slow much at all. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If a repack doesn't get you the volume you want (I pack mine with steel wool), you're going to need to replace the header AND muffler. They're a set and won't mix/match with stock pieces. Gorgeous bike. I'd tinker and keep it...but that's just me. And ANY late ('99-up) exhaust will fit, just make sure its EFI because of the oxygen sensor. | ||
| Woodnbow |
I'd keep it... you will regret selling it and as mentioned the stock exhaust can still be found, Ebay, Swap meets, heck post here looking for a trade and you could find a stock system. Ditto for the ECM. The stock S3T that I had ran great with all stock components. | ||
| Kev_m |
Thanks for the all the replies so far. Ratbuell - I didn't realize the header pipes had been changed too. Hmmm, that complicates things then. Looks like American Sportbike sells a repack kit specifically for that muffler (yes?). http://americansportbike.com/newdir/Item/5927 If that's the right kit it might make sense for me to start there. And yeah, I guess I should check the classifieds and/or post an add asking about a stock muffler and header. I'm a little reluctant to sell/trade this one, just because it seems to run so well and I'm told they are relatively rare (what's not with Buells). But I'll consider it. Anyone here have experience with the SuperTrapp? How loud is it compared to Buell Pro Series? And does it mount to these headers? Could it potentially be quieted down "enough" (I know, too subjective, impossible to quantify) with enough discs? (Message edited by kev m on September 22, 2014) | ||
| Dammitquikgentry |
Pm sent regarding header/muffler | ||
| Hootowl |
I found the internal disk supertrapp (or the Buell Pro Series equivalent) to be quite pleasing, and not nearly as loud as the the Buell Race can. | ||
| Phelan |
I think Ratbuell was basing his statement on the race muffler comment. You actually have a stock header and a Buell Pro Series muffler, which is a Supertrapp Internal Disc System (IDS) muffler-- not the race system. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Correct! I based my statement on the first photo, which looks like a race set. Hard to tell in the second shot but if it IS the pro series and not the race...your life just got easier. It is a tunable, internal disc, non-packed muffler. Pull the rear outer endcap. Couple discs with a disc endcap...quiet and more back pressure. More discs with the disc endcap (or no disc endcap)...louder with more flow. I believe they're standard supertrapp 4" discs. | ||
| Kev_m |
Ahh, ok. Sorry, I might be confusing things. So there was both a Pro Series muffler and a complete Race Series exhaust/muffler available? This clearly says "Pro Series" on the side, so this is basically a rebadged SuperTrap? There are 3 bolts (uh, 2 screws and 1 bolt) on the side of the muffler, just behind the hanger right at the outlet end. I'm assuming I pull those and I've got access to add discs? Excellent news! I can probably pull one and measure to confirm before ordering. Anything else I need to know? DamnitQuickGentry - I looked for your PM, but I seem to be too stupid to FIND the PM's today. | ||
| Hootowl |
"This clearly says "Pro Series" on the side, so this is basically a rebadged SuperTrap?" Yes, Buell OEM'd the muffler from SuperTrapp, and SuperTrapp made ones that were SuperTrapp branded. Same same. | ||
| Jolly |
I've got a 2002 s3t with the "Buell" badged internal disc supper trap exhaust getting closer to around 45mpg. Nice looking bike! | ||
| Oldog |
Welcome Kev American Sport Bike ( American Sport Bike, A sponsor here) can get the super trap parts you may need,to make disk adjustments, The packing is quite durable watch the older rear mounts are delicate, the newer ones are simple and sturdy, If you try to pull the discs out you may have difficulties, hence my comments the packing can be replaced but normally will not need it. If you opt to to re-pack it after you inspect it, buy the factory kit AL can get that too but it takes a while its almost drop in vs trying to use generic dense rock wool or the like. The stock is very quiet compared to the super trap, but you could loose up to 10 hp in the sweet spot where you ride, I have dyno charts posted way down in the KV about this. I get the quiet thing though ... Good luck | ||
| Hootowl |
Do the IDS trapp cans use packing? | ||
| Kev_m |
Thanks OldDog - I'll keep that all in mind. Does anyone know off the top of their head how many possible discs there may be in there? I figure if I can safely pull it all apart I'll remove 2 or so then test and see how it sounds/feels. Repeat as reasonably necessary until I get a sound I like or know that I need another direction. | ||
| Hootowl |
Seems like, if I remember correctly, that you can put something like 14 or 16 in there. Wish I could remember...I had one of those once upon a time. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hootowl - no packing. Perf core and discs is it. And a "set" of discs is 12. I think the IDS has room for one set... | ||
| Damnut |
My Pro-Series muffler definitely has packing in it. | ||
| Hootowl |
They came with 12, but I'm quite sure that you can add more than that. | ||
| Hootowl |
Damnut, do you have the supertrapp IDS muffler, or the race can? | ||
| Damnut |
I have the IDS Pro-Series muffler. I say this cause the packing in the muffler came undone and clogged the muffler. It was so clogged that the bike wouldn't run right at all. I haven't taken it apart yet but there is a hole on the bottom of the can that the packing is coming out of. I took it off my bike and put the stock can back on there for now. I can take it apart and take some pictures of it if needed. | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
The best muffler, IMHO, is the stock set up. It flows better than anything out there until you hit high rpm where most people don't spend much time on the street. They are quiet and sound really nice too. I would keep the race ECM and put on a stock muffler; quiet performance befitting a "gentleman's express". | ||
| Kev_m |
Well Dave, that's certainly the plan if removing some discs won't get me where I want to go. | ||
| Hootowl |
For the M2, I would agree. However, the S3 and X1 of that year use the same cams, and there is a HUGE hole in the midrange with the stock exhaust. If you don't putt around below 4500 RPM, I guess that won't matter to you, but I do the vast majority of my riding between 2700 and 4K, so I saw significant rideability improvements by ditching the stock exhaust. I hope that you can find a sound level that is acceptable to you, because, while I certainly respect Dave's opinion on this, I must respectfully disagree that the stock muffler works best for the X1/S3 in the RPM range where most of us use our bikes on a daily basis. | ||
| Hootowl |
(Actually, the X1 muffler flows very well at high RPM...but it kills midrange) | ||
| Rsbmwrider |
If you do want to sell the bike....give me a number?? | ||
| Phelan |
Kev, this is off topic, but were you ever part of XLForum? | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Stock exhaust. Stock tune. Stock airbox. Pilot Road tires. Ride the hell out of it. Awesome sport touring bike. You've got the bags and everything. No valves to adjust, belt drive, fuel injection. Just keep clean oil in it and enjoy it. My mileage ranges between 40s and a high of 54 (hauling ass in the Sierra foothills all day long).  | ||
| Kev_m |
Hoot - are you talking with the Race ECM? I'm getting mixed reports. Like from Dan at NRHS (on the XLforum) who thinks the stock muffler would be fine with the race ECM on this bike. I know he has a fleet of tuber Buells and more than a little experience. <shrugs> Phelan - I was (Kev M) and am (Bone) Rsb - I'll keep you in mind thanks. Greg - I hear ya. I don't think I'm ready to give up on her yet. Let me play with this muffler and try to make it less anti-social. (Message edited by kev m on September 23, 2014) |
