| Author | Message | ||
     Sambodean |
Please give it a rest, I just want to fix my bike. I'm fine, some people come off more mean than they are. | ||
| Alfau |
one of the two greatest mechanical engineers on the planet. Please can I be worthy too now? My worry is that you like the challenge of owning a Buell. | ||
| Sambodean |
for the voes, i know its housed in the carb, but where do the lines go too? I honestly don't remember any vacuum lines when disconnecting. Does anyone have a diagram? I would just like to squash all possible reasons for a round 2 screwup. especially after new cylinders, forged cp pistons, and ported thunderstorm heads are installed. (Message edited by sambodean on June 07, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Well Sam, thank you also. Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on June 07, 2014) | ||
| V74 |
the voes rests on the frame rails under the fuel tank and is connected to the carb by a tube and you shouldn't have any trouble with finding the take off for the tube. the voes can be adjusted but best to find out if its faulty before playing about with it. | ||
| Lynrd |
Yup, find the one vacuum tube off of the intake manifold. The voes is on the other end. If the vacuum tube is plugged or missing, that's bad | ||
| Sambodean |
Rocket, you're the reason I used the borescope to begin with. And I said "thank you all" , and thank you specifically, numerous times. Anyways, if I'm going to spend this much on the heads etc, I guess I'll replace the fuel lines and vaccum lines. At work we have these flame resistant oil, hydraulic hoses that use flare fittings. I think I'll get rid of the nasty oil lines and convert them to those. Overkill yes, but also free, and easier to work on the bike. I'll post pictures with the progress. Is anyone familiar with a reputable shop to bore out cylinders in the Bay Area? If not, I'll send it all in to hammer, they seem reasonably priced, but I'm all for good deals. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Post edited Sam. Let's get on with a rebuild  So you're not going to hone and fit new piston kit? Rocket in England | ||
| Lynrd |
Sam: I just noticed you are in Oakland. One of the finest HD Machine shops on the planet is right down the road on the San Leandro/Hayward line on E14th St.. Go to Hannans, drag your top end along and see what Paul or Jimmy thinks. They are a father and son team, and "Panhead Paul" has been doing this stuff since 1957. I cannot endorse their work highly enough. A top end like this, for me, almost always turns into "while I'm there anyway" for me.... But they can definitely bore your cylinders (and are honest enough to measure them and inspect them and tell you if they can be saved by honing as well). They also can do the deck on the heads to make sure it is all flat and ready to seal, and they do a great job flowing heads, port and polish and all that as well. I've done business with them for over 20 years. Ness uses them, Simms uses them (their shop is about midway between Simms and Ness when Ness was on E14th street and Simms was way down Mission) Many members of the local "Motorcycle Enthusiast Organizations" including the most famous one would echo my endorsement. Hannans is the real deal - great for top end work. And yes, you can say Lynrd sent you. Re: the VOES, or lack thereof...what ignition are you running? If the former owner changed it out for a flyweight setup - Like the "Dyna S" ,they you would not have a VOES switch (or a rev limiter). But about every other aftermarket ignition should have one. (Message edited by Lynrd on June 08, 2014) | ||
| Sambodean |
Rocket, I bought some used forged cp pistons, and thunderstorm cylinders. Im planning on replacing basically everything on the top end except the rocker boxes. I also purchased some slightly used thunderstorm heads, with beehive springs. My plan is to have it just honed if i can, but I'm running into an issue. It looks like these heads i bought were welded on or something. The chamber doesn't look stock, and I'm wondering if they added material to increase compression or something? either way, the chambers are not smooth, and don't have a nice flow at all, and I'm also worried about the clearance with the pistons against the heads. pics included. And lynrd, I believe the only thing this guy did is add a screaming eagle computer, I'm heading by the bike today to remove the piston and ill give you an update as soon as i find what is/isnt missing. And thank you so much for the contact! looks like i know where I'm going to get the bad boys honed.     | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Hard to tell from the pics but those heads look to have a bit less taken out of them than mine. They don't look as skimmed as mine though. From what I can see they look like good heads. What do the ports look like? Pics? If you're going to use them you need to work out clearance and determine compression dependent on which pistons and what thickness gaskets you use. Rocket in England | ||
| Sambodean |
the ports look much much better than my stock s1. nice and smooth. i tried to take better pics.    | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I can see there is a lot less taken out of those heads than mine. No reason why they wouldn't turn you good performance though. There's room for improvement if you want it. Regardless, if you use the heads as are now, you need to make the correct choice of piston. I don't see those pistons will go with those heads. The obvious thing is they don't appear to have clearance with those heightened crowns. Would be interesting to see your inlet / exhaust ports? Rocket in England | ||
| Splatter |
Sambo your pistons look like there 30 degree to me measure them with a protractor. If so the chambers will have to be machined out to match which will take out all that sloppy welding anyway. See if Hannans can machine a 30 degree chamber if not send them to someone GOOD like Cycle Rama and beware of the company that spams this board they really botched a buddys heads cause theyve only been doing heads a year and suck at it. Be sure to cc the chambers and the pistons so you know your CR is good. Good luck. | ||
| Splatter |
Rockt theres no piston made that will fit good up against that welded mess and even if it would he'd have all kinds of detonation traps from those holes. He needs a good clean machined squish band that takes out the craters and matches the piston perfect. See the hammer web site they have tons of pics of 30 degree chambers and pistons. Hes lucky he got 30 degree pistons cause thats exactly what those chambers need. | ||
| Sambodean |
thanks for the info folks. Hopefully it won't cost an arm and a leg to get it machined. Good info splatter. Rocket, ill send you a pic of the intake and exhaust ports, they need a good cleaning, but they are a hell of a lot smoother than my stock s1's. I guess I'm happy that material needs to be removed, rather than added on the heads. what kind of power you guys think i could potentially get out of these with a good tune? stock bottom end, all this crap top side, a screaming weasel computer, vance & H exhaust, with K&N filter. Hopefully high 90's? (Message edited by sambodean on June 08, 2014) | ||
| Sambodean |
exhaust has too much carbon to get a fair example, so heres the intake  | ||
| Sambodean |
 | ||
| Sambodean |
lynryd, I'm trying to find the address for hannas, and i can't seem to find it,East 14th street in hayward or san leandro. do you know the exact address by any chance? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rockt theres no piston made that will fit good up against that welded mess and even if it would he'd have all kinds of detonation traps from those holes. There are several manufacturers who have available flat top pistons. Wiseco for one. As for those holes they're no more likely to cause detonation than any other carbon build up anywhere else on the chamber surface. Why would they? Welded up mess or not, they're perfectly useable heads in an engine not built to break records or win races. He needs a good clean machined squish band that takes out the craters and matches the piston perfect. Yes I agree if he intends to spend good money doing a proper tuning job. My understanding is, he doesn't. See the hammer web site they have tons of pics of 30 degree chambers and pistons. I'd rather give my Buell away than use that place. Hes lucky he got 30 degree pistons cause thats exactly what those chambers need. Not necessarily. Those heads could be worked to take a lesser dome. Again, like the forged Wiseco specific to S1W at 10.1 comp. Rocket in England | ||
| Lynrd |
My Bad - East 14th turns into Mission on the San Leandro Line...I used to live on the San Leandro side on 166th. Hannans 21050 Mission Blvd, Hayward, CA 94541 (510) 581-5315 | ||
| Splatter |
"as for those holes they're no more likely to cause detonation than any other carbon build up anywhere else on the chamber surface. Why would they?" if you didn't know fuel traps cause detonation you have a lot to learn about motors. "Not necessarily. Those heads could be worked to take a lesser dome. Again, like the forged Wiseco specific to S1W at 10.1 comp. " Machining the heads costs way less than new pistons and the 30 degree works better and will clean out more of the craters too. Theres really only one sensible way to fix it since he already has 30 degree pistons at least they look like 30 degree pistons in the pics. | ||
| Sambodean |
thanks lynryd!! The heads pistons and jugs will all be taken into them. Hopefully ill just need a hone, and machining the material away won't take too much time or effort on their part. | ||
| Alfau |
If money were no object, you could | ||
| Sambodean |
Ill find out tomorrow how much. I've already invested this much time, even if it weren't cheap id just fork it out anyways. | ||
| Lynrd |
Not sure if they are open Mondays...they are pretty old school... | ||
| Sambodean |
damnit | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
if you didn't know fuel traps cause detonation you have a lot to learn about motors. I don't disagree with you, but Sam isn't building a nitro burning dragster. At best it's a mildly tuned tractor engine. Those pits will do no harm by the time the mixture's alive and kicking looking at those bowls, when using a suitable piston and gaskets. Machining the heads costs way less than new pistons and the 30 degree works better and will clean out more of the craters too. Theres really only one sensible way to fix it since he already has 30 degree pistons at least they look like 30 degree pistons in the pics. I'm sure an inexpensive set of pistons could be found on eBay. I wouldn't know what degree works best. I'm a bit out of touch with the nuances of Buell tuning since I did mine a few years ago now. But yes, if those pistons are to be used it won't take long for someone (Sam?) to sit there and scoop those heads out, so why pay someone to do it when the ports are already flowed. And as you say, much of the spatter holes can be dealt with whilst doing so. But what benefit will be gained? Without higher performance cams, a better carb and exhaust than stock, it's pretty much a waste of time and a long way around to fix what is a scuffed cylinder and a damaged piston. Both of which could be sorted in a day and the engine running no better than it would if using these pistons and heads. I thought this was supposed to be an inexpensive quick fix? Frankly if this were my engine I wouldn't be considering using those heads and pistons with stock cylinders anyway. I've no faith in long term reliability of stock cylinders, and even less so when tuning for more power. Which is inevitably where this will go if those heads are to be used once reworked for those pistons. And as I said, without the benefits of other components in the mix, it's an arse about face way to a simple solution. That is unless there's an intention to upgrade other components now or going forward. In which case I would not waste my money, which Sam seems to already be doing, and I'd be buying a 1250 kit as a starting point. Then I'd rework those TS heads and get some better performing cams to unleash the benefits of more capacity and better flowing heads, with a view to upgrading the external components as I went along - if not sooner. Rocket in England | ||
| V74 |
is it me or are the two intake ports different? I can see that the two where photographed at different angles but taking that into account they still look different. looks like someone tried to modify the heads into a "bathtub" shape combustion chamber. | ||
| Sambodean |
V74, same intake ports, just taken at a drastically different angle. And Rocket, this was supposed to be a quick fix, but everything is sold in pairs on ebay. A new cylinder is over 300, and new piston is around 100. And used evo cylinders with pistons were around the same price as the thunderstorm ones with domed pistons that i purchased. I got an awesome deal on the heads (I'm now seeing why) which still puts me under what i would have paid for just the necessary components. At least this way, theres potential for upgrades in the future. This engine is an absolute joke to pull apart, so if i ever wanted to change something else in the future, i could with ease. At least there will be a mild increase in horsepower, and knowledge gained from everything. (Message edited by sambodean on June 09, 2014) |
