| Author | Message | ||
     Essmjay |
I follow raptly. It does however, like looking at the models in underwear ads, make me feel a bit inadequate. | ||
| 1313 |
I hope people are reading this tome. I'm not getting much feedback and I know some of you can answer the questions I've posted. Following intently! Every time I'm on BadWeB, I check on this thread. I've *answered* the only questions that I could thus far. And I'm not really all that shy about piping up when another one I know the answer to pops up, 1313 | ||
| Greg_cifu |
OK, as long as I'm not blogging to myself.  Here's an interesting bit. Remember this bike from the beginning of the thread?  The magazine claimed it was an RR1200 but, details didn't seem correct for that. Views of the opposite side showed the higher, 5-speed version of the frame bottom tube, it has the 6 piston caliper, Roma fork, etc. The engine is clearly a 5-speed (narrower pushrod spacing and the front tie-bar attachment are give-aways). As Steel Eagle informed me, the RSS is the only one of the bunch to have a bolted subframe. That bike has a bolted subframe as well. It was built by the same guy who built mine. An orphaned RSS subframe and instrument cluster came with the rest of the parts I just bought. Anybody want to bet where they came from? | ||
| Lynrd |
Greg: following this thing avidly as well... re: your brake pads - they look familiar but I can't place them. The pads are the same as either the PM or the JayBrake from the early 90s I am pretty sure that pad was used on both early JayBrake and the Iron Pegasus calipers. EBC lists a 509H-HF that looks about right. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Lynrd, thanks for that tip. I looked at a picture of the pads you listed. I don't think those are quite right for this caliper. They have ears that stick out for controlling the depth of the pads. Basti posted this picture earlier:  I measured the caliper last night. The correct pads will be 75mm wide with 50mm pin spacing. Can anybody just go nudge Erik and ask him? | ||
| 1313 |
the RSS is the only one of the bunch to have a bolted subframe. RS's of the same era did as well. Before the RSS existed, it's possible that the RS frame had an integral tail section. Every RS that I've ever built, touched or examined had a bolt on tail section (or rear sub-frame) as well. An orphaned RSS subframe and instrument cluster came with the rest of the parts I just bought. Anybody want to bet where they came from? I've got a pretty good idea where they came from, but honestly I'm more concerned with where they're going. I don't have an RS or RSS...yet...but following your 'buy a doorknob, and then buy the house to put the doorknob on'... Good thing I didn't pipe up when I originally presumed the blue bike to be an S2 (as it's now clearly an RS/RSS as I look at the details), 1313 | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Ahh...dang...keep learning stuff. I've never had the bodywork off of the Westwind. I just looked at it. You are correct again, sir. The '91 RS has a bolted subframe as well. So the switch to a 5-speed included that change too. Well, this orphaned subframe has no passenger peg loops so it's surely RSS. | ||
| Basti |
Hi my 4 speed RS has a fixed non removable subframe, the switch came with the 5 Speed Rs RSS, I have both subframes here. You need a picture ? The pads Ive posted a from SBS and have a number on them starts with 590 rest is unfortunately not recognizable could be 8 or 9 I ll keep doing my best following this tread and answer questions but please keep in mind im not a native speaker and the time shift, youre just too fast . Basti | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Basti, thanks. We're helping each other here. I'll see what I can find on that part number. It looks like the subframe switch was a mid-production change on the 4-speeds. I have a magazine showing the welded subframe on a 4-speed. I have a later magazine--also with a 4-speed RS--and it has a BOLTED subframe. So it looks like they changed somewhere along the way. I would guess this makes it possible to have an RR with a bolted subframe since there were 1990 RR1200s. I can't see why they would continue making the "older" frame just to support a few RRs. Another interesting thing: there are pictures of at least one RR1200 with a chain guard. The chain guard required tabs on the swingarm--added somewhere in that time span. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Brake calipers. I can't say for 100% sure but, it looks like the early Buell calipers use Yamaha FZR1000 front pads from 1987-1988. I found these dimensioned online drawings of the pads. I downloaded the image, sized it in Photoshop until the pad was actual size, then printed and put it into the caliper. The pins are perfectly aligned and the pad extends just beyond the pistons. I'd call that a match.  Just to add some options, it also looks like the later FJ1200 (1991-1995) pads are a match as well. I can't figure out what's different between them. They seem to be dimensionally identical except maybe the pin size.  Still more, the 91-95 FZR1000 pads ALSO match--again--looks like the pin size is the only difference.  EDIT: found the answer in a 1990 Cycle World test of an RS1200 with Buell calipers. Linch Pins, also affectionately called diaper pins, is the how they held the pads in. I just checked the holes on the caliper and they're a very snug 0.125 (good job to whoever machined these--straight, tight drilled holes are not as easy as most think). So it looks like these are probably the correct pins: http://www.mcmaster.com/#90174a115 Because of that, I'm also going to say that the 87-88 FZR pads are probably correct, only because they likely have the smallest holes of the three. I'm also guessing the seal kits are going to turn out to be 1987-1988 FZR1000. Not tearing into them yet but, it would make sense. (Message edited by greg_cifu on July 13, 2013) | ||
| Davegess |
Cool stuff! | ||
| S1owner |
The pads in the picture look just like the pads for my PM 4 piston caliper I just picked up for my rear I just ordered some from American Sport Bike does the back say anything I cleaned mine and there was a part number. | ||
| Hughlysses |
+1 to what Dave said. I love figuring stuff out like this. I also learned what a linch pin is. Amazing the stuff you can find at McMaster-Carr. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
I looked at the common PM 4-piston caliper pads. They're only 69mm wide and use a single pin. At least the ones I found were that way. These need to be 75mm wide. Does your caliper have one or two retention pins? The only PM brake pads I can find that had that shape and double pins are the 509H for the 162x2 PM caliper. They're shown as only 57.7mm wide. Unless I'm looking at the wrong pads. I'd still bet money that the whole caliper was Yamaha-based. In Dave and Court's book, it alluded to "supplier problems" being the reason the calipers were switched. I assumed it was the casting company but, it could have just as likely been Yamaha Motor Corporations lawyers not wanting to sell him any more pads or seal kits. We'll never hear if that happened because of non-disclosure agreements and fiduciary responsibilities. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Tonight was a little quality time, spent in Solidworks, making a solid model of the brake caliper mounts. The recent batch of parts came with a single bracket--a life saver since it can now be duplicated. The bike needs at least one for the other side. I'll probably make both just so they match (don't want the CNC precision of one side calling attention to the casting on the other). These are to reinstall the Buell calipers to the original Marzocchi forks. Here are two views of the left side bracket. The two taller pads mate to the fork leg and the shorter pads are up against the caliper.  (Message edited by greg_cifu on July 14, 2013) | ||
| Basti |
Hi the early calipers were made from a firm called Florida Caliper Manufacturers, the adress was 1450 S.W. Tenth Street, Delray Beach, FL33444 (407) 734-0994 Unfortunately no longer in production. I dont know if you know the book " Harley Davidson Performance parts directory", you can see the calipers on page 49 along with the adress Basti | ||
| S1owner |
Looked today and you are correct mine are single pin! | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Basti: that's interesting information. A Google search shows that they marketed motorcycle calipers under the name "Harrison." I wonder if that's the same company that is now based in the UK under Harrison Billet. I was familiar with their Billet 6 caliper. They're coveted by the BMW Airhead geeks. Edit: just found this on their website. Yup, same company.
I'm just about to blow the piston out of one of these and order an FZR rebuild kit, just to figure it out. Ken: thanks for looking. PM has made a bunch of calipers so it was entirely possible. (Message edited by greg_cifu on July 14, 2013) | ||
| S1owner |
No problem Eish you luck in your adventure!! I will keep reading this as it is probably the most interesting thing I have read in a long time | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Time to keep this thing moving along. The project this weekend was to make reproduction front caliper mounts. This bike had the forks changed to 1991 WP Romas and PM Calipers. The goal is to return to original Marzocchi M1R forks and Buell calipers. Along with the pile of parts I bought was the proper fork and one sand-cast caliper mount. I used that lone mount to reverse engineer a Solidworks model (seen in an earlier post), then mirrored it to create the other side. The models were moved to Mastercam, cutter paths were completed and parts made.     That's the original Buell part, next to my reproductions. Those should do the trick. A heavy dose of glass beads and a can of wrinkle finish paint should complete the look. I'm still not sure if I want to use both CNC machined brackets or at least install the one original bracket. The sides of the machined ones are just a little too perfect to look like castings. If it's one of each, there's something to compare to. Otherwise, nobody will ever notice. | ||
| Basti |
Cool work  and good too know where I can get one now (Message edited by basti on July 30, 2013) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Any further progress to report? | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Not much worth showing. Just bought a set of Napoleon mirrors for it. Finally bought a bag of proper truss-head screws and 1/2" wellnuts for the bodywork. Oh yeah...the guy found a stash of miscellaneous cast brackets...including the missing caliper bracket. I made the CNC ones for nothing.  Still hunting for the right engine. | ||
| Oldog |
Greg, Nice job on the billet brackets perhaps you could sand blast them to make them look a bit more like cast | ||
| Hughlysses |
Still hunting for the right engine. Well, judging from your experience with the brake caliper brackets, obviously you should spend several thousand on one that's "almost" right, and then the original will turn up a few days later.  | ||
| 89rs1200 |
I need help here. Just blew out the front caliper seals. Tired contacting Buell but no replies. Where can I get a rebuild kit for the 1989 RS1200 Buell branded front brake calipers? | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Most pressing is the brake rebuild kit as mine has sprung a leak. Want to ride not place Old Blue in a museum. I have tried contacting EBR for a month now with no reply: H0015.0 4 piston Buell, Rebuild Kit Front Brake Caliper H0030.0 Rebuild Kit Rear Brake Caliper G0529.2 Rub Block, Chain G0528.2 Rub Sleeve, Chain G0140.2H Speedo Drive P0302.2QQ Fuel Valve P0152.2 Fuel Cap Boot P0150.2QQ Fuel Cap Assy, with Key N0161.4 Mirror, LH N0162.4 Mirror, RH M0600.4 Bubble, Windshield J0131.2A Anti-dive Valve L0103.2 Fork Lock Ass'y with key M0610.4 Headlight Cover | ||
| Leftcoastal |
Not sure if it is the case with your 89, but my 91 RS had a PM caliper that had the Buell brand on it, and parts were available from Performance Machine. The rear caliper on the 91 was a Gambler unit, good luck finding parts there. | ||
| 89rs1200 |
The 1989 RS/RSS1200 had Eric Buell Designed brakes not the PM. | ||
| Court |
There **may** (it would have been chronicled in one of the boxes of crap I through away last week) be a chance that 1889 had brakes from both sources, Erik and Performance Machine. The "brake guy" was, and I'm working from memory here, in Florida and, with the passage of time, became an unreliable source . . . . not unlike Excalibur was for the bodywork. |
