| Author | Message | ||
     B1rdman |
I've been having a difficult time getting the tranny from 1st to 2nd when accelerating somewhat hard. If I'm just doing normal "cruising speed" then it is fine, but otherwise it will go into neutral instead of second on the upshift. The clutch seems to be holding fine under load and I don't feel any slippage or smell anything. However I have noticed this just today: When accelerating hard through the gears and my rpms get to the top, I'll go to shift and it'll just free rev for a sec until I let off the throttle some and without messing with the clutch at all I'll feel it grab hold of a gear again. THAT symptom happens at the top end of the RPMS when accelerating through the gears hard..but I think the 1-2nd miss is something different. Thoughts? | ||
| Two_seasons |
You primary chain is probably too tight. | ||
| B1rdman |
You know...I think you're right. I'm gonna check it tonight. I've had that suspicion for a while now. Do you think putting approx 2k miles on it with it too tight has or could have done any damage? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Could be the 5th gear drive assembly as well, particularly if you are running the belt too tight (which is where the manual tells you to put it). Hopefully it's the primary, then you don't have to take anything apart. | ||
| B1rdman |
Well to be honest, I think the belt is too tight as well. However when I'm not sitting on it, it has plenty of play it seems. However I have noticed that it doesn't like to roll around in neutral easily...it seems like the bike has some resistance that makes it harder to just roll easily..Other bikes I've sat on will move in neutral easily but mine takes a little effort. Makes me think that the belt is too tight. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Your 2nd gear dogs could be getting worn as well. That's what mine did whenever I shifted into second during spirited riding. It would also jump in and out of second as well, makes for a jerky ride. | ||
| Two_seasons |
If you cannot roll your bike around in neutral, maybe you have wheel bearing(s) issues too. You should have 3/4" up/down play at the tight spot of the primary (roll it around in 5th gear, checking every couple of feet to find the tight spot or put another way, minimum deflection). You adjust that with the primary chain adjuster under the primary cover, just above the muffler. You may want to open up your primary cover and check your primary chain shoe. The old design eventually fails, the new one is a better design. Your drive belt should be adjusted so that when you are fully seated on the bike and with your gear/supplies/bags etc, deflection is about 2" on the top and 2" of deflection on the bottom. Some call it "scary loose" and it will seem that way when the suspension is unloaded. If your drive belt stays tight, your bearings in the transmission get trashed. By the way, the service manual for your bike is not correct for either adjustment! | ||
| Harfend |
Another quick and easy tip to try would be to "pre-load" the shifter peg with your foot before you hit the clutch to shift to the next gear. I used to do this with a BMW I had which made up shifting much smoother and guaranteed positive engagement on the shift. Subsequently, I have found my S3T also seem to prefer a bit of pre-load to take up the slack in the shift mechanism. Give it a try! Good Luck! HARFEND | ||
| B1rdman |
I went to take off the primary inspection cover but those stupid female allen head bolts just want to strip instead of come out. I hate that Buell/Harley had to use those instead of male head bolts. Thoughts?? I went ahead and loosened the primary chain a little...about 3/4 turn? I know I'm playing with fire by adjusting without actually measuring.. I also loosened the drive belt a little to allow the 2" of deflection while seated. BEFORE I did that, i could barely wiggle it 1/2" while seated...and the previous owner was a good 100lbs more than me! Should I be worried that my bearings are trashed and that's what was causing my problems? @Harfend: I do that anyways actually...and in many cases that causes the transmission to go to neutral (or possibly between a gear? or slip?) when I get to higher rpms.. | ||
| Two_seasons |
I had the same problem when I went to remove my primary chain access cover. Wound up taking the whole primary cover over to Hal's HD and had them drill it out. Otherwise, you will probably damage your primary cover, and they are about $200. You need to remove your primary cover so you can check the primary chain shoe too. Probably your biggest problem is that everything is too tight...belt, primary chain, clutch dragging. | ||
| B1rdman |
Bike was slipping bad today at high rpms and at high rpm shifts...where's the best place to get a clutch? | ||
| Two_seasons |
American Sport Bike for clutch parts. | ||
| Alfau |
those stupid female allen head bolts The original bolts are Thorax bolts. Shit stainless steel bolts that strip when you look at them. The answer is to replace them with button head Allen key bolts. Use a 1/4" Cobalt drill to drill the head off (head only) all four Thorax bolts, then remove the derby cover. Vise grips to remove the remaining stump. Cobalt drills are the best and very hard to break.} | ||
| B1rdman |
After more playing around with the bike, I don't think the clutch is bad per se. How can I troubleshoot if the clutch is dragging some (ie improperly adjusted?). It only slips on me and stays out of gear at very high rpms until I let off the throttle and when it comes back down to say 5.5-6k rpm, it engages again..all without me messing with the clutch. Makes it hard to rip through the gears. It does it on every gear at high rpm under load and right before a shift. I was actually able to somehow get the derby cover off and look at things. The transmission wasn't overfilled though. Other than that I don't know what to look for. The primary inspection cover bolts have kicked my ass though. One of the bolts broke my allen wrench off inside of it (no idea how I'm gonna get that out, a drill bit wouldn't bite) and the other threatened to do the same without budging. I freaking hate the •••••• who overtightened it (or blame it on old age). I'll have to drill them out one day when I get ballsy/fed up. Or have HD do it. | ||
| B1rdman |
I noticed today that if I'm sitting there in Neutral, idling, that when I slowly push down on the shifter with or without the clutch engaged, it does the same thing: clunks around on the outside of the gear, as in I can feel it outside of the engagement point clunking against the shifter without engaging. If I pushed down deliberately it will slide into gear, albeit with some friction, with the clutch pulled in of course. As I let off the clutch about a 1/4" it starts to barely move the bike. However when I'm cruising around, I don't need to pull it in all the way to shift. However that said, I can of course shift without using the clutch at all, and wonder if basically that's what I'm doing to make for my smooth shifts. In all, I'm wondering how much work my clutch is actually doing or if there's some adjustment I need to make. I know of how to do it (per the manual) but don't know if I really need to do it, or if it's some sort of shifter pawl or whatever that needs adjusting. Or if it's unrelated to that at all and has to do with my front pulley bearing coming out/exposed. | ||
| Kalali |
Don't mean to be a wiseass and may get flamed for it but between the gear popping, rev limiter bouncing, and oil puking episodes, I think the bike is telling you something...The strong point of these bikes is their low-end torque not high-RPM performance. For that you need to get an inline-4 Jap bike. Sorry but just hate to see a Tuber get mistreated... | ||
| B1rdman |
How am I mistreating it?? Should I be a typical Harley owner and never go past 3k rpm, and rev it at everyone every other second?? I bought this bike to ENJOY, FULLY. I didn't get a cruiser for a REASON. The rev limiter bouncing was because the clutch was slipping at high rpms which was probably due to a seal going bad that was mixing the engine and primary oils. | ||
| Fasted |
engine oil and trans mixing would not cause clutch slipping, only splooge out the vent from excessive volume | ||
| Preybird1 |
I beat the hell outta my tuber! I have run it at 140+ mph for 30 minutes non stop. I take it to the track and beat it there......I flog it in the canyons! it's a machine and if it breaks i FIX IT! These motors are pretty stout and if they are built like mine is now then it is a non issue with beating\rough riding on them. i keep all my machines in top notch condition also so i never have to worry! One thing i would do if you can is buy all the high end after market parts you can afford! Not that HD garbage they sell. | ||
| Kalali |
Fair enough guys. Your bike and you can ride it the way you like it. May be I'm just a pussy but I think a 50 year old design is just not geared for a so called "high performance' application. Of course if you're willing to take a "fix it if it breaks" approach then sky is the limit. Anyway, didn't mean to start any arguments... Enjoy the machine. Peace. | ||
| Kevmean |
But I do think Kalali has a valid point  | ||
| B1rdman |
Well HELL, let's not ride them at all. Let's put them all in a glass case and just stare at them. I don't half-ass enjoy my stuff. I don't think he has a valid point at all. I haven't abused this bike...have simply ridden it as it was intended. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
These are basic machines. If your clutch is in proper spec something else is probably out of adjustment. Thrashing on the bike when it's already shifting poorly WILL cause further problems, premature wear, or broken parts. From the development you've described I really think you need to get that primary cover off. Shifter pawl adjustment by the book, as close to spec as possible. Also, with the primary cover off you can carefully drill out the chain inspection cover hardware from behind (since the front of it has got that broken off tool in it). Once the pawl adjustment is done and the chain inspection cover is cleared out of the way you'll be able to access it for proper adjustment and you'll be in a lot better place. Get that done and double check you clutch adjustment at the primary, not just the cable (which I think you've said in another thread has been done?). My experience with clonky shifting in the past is surprising, I chalked it up to the old design, thinking it was just going to be that way... I put new clutch plates in my bike this year and did some blue printing type detail work on the inside of the clutch basket itself, but my best work in the primary was properly adjusting the shifter, it has become SO much easier to shift since I took it into my own hands instead of letting the HD tech's do it for me. I was very careful to make sure it was set up just right, and it shifts a lot better because of it. Much more precise and requiring a lot less effort. Just my $.02. Wes if you can't get a service manual right now just pm your address to me and I'll mail you some copies of the appropriate pages. My scanner isn't working else I'd just scan and email it to you. | ||
| Essmjay |
And while he is in there he should check the shift drum pins, one or more are likely backed out and causing engagement problems. | ||
| Nein_collins |
shift detent plate? The little c-ring comes off and all hell breaks loose... sounds like your 1st to 2nd shift problem to me. Go ahead and get the baker smooth shift kit, fixes the problem completely...or you can just get a new detent plate and clip and fix it multiple times (like me) | ||
| B1rdman |
What about the clutch slipping at high rpms? Could it be related? | ||
| Essmjay |
If the clutch is properly adjusted and not worn out, and the clutch is slipping, it is likely too much fluid in the primary. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Well that's probably going to be clutch adjustment. If you've only adjusted the cable for free play thus far you'll need to adjust it in the primary. Could be warped steel rings or glazed friction plates. Start with the simple stuff first. How many miles are on your bike? The clutch plates are pretty sturdy. but if things have been really out of adjustment and mistreated on a low mile bike you could have parts in there that are used up like Preybird1 did when he got his X1, right Russ? Stock shift drum can be polished and drilled by a decent machinist to accept a allen head screw for a less expensive repair to the tranny if spring clips are a problem. Just depends on how much you can spend, or want to spend really. I was intimidated by the primary/tranny/clutch, but was thrilled at how uncomplicated it all was when I got in there. | ||
| B1rdman |
It's got 16.5k on it. The belt was dangerously tight, the lock ring around the primary sprocket looked to be hacked up and welded, the pads were toast, rotor is warped, every other bolt was already stripped, and every other bolt was loose. The exhaust was all but falling off. He was an older guy who had a TON of other expensive toys, big house, daughters drove their own Lexus's, and apparently his teenage son would ride this bike. Anyways, I didn't take him for an enthusiast..just a rich guy. I haven't adjusted the cable yet...seems a little more complicated than what I'm used to. I'll do it once I get this oil leak figured out and fixed. I want to spend $0. lol I know that's only a fantasy though.. It's possible that engine oil is getting in the primary except that when I DID take off the inspection cover, it had the proper amount in there. I also have not noticed oil coming out of the vent tube. BUT...I HAVE noticed the engine oil level in the tank going down and stabilizes just under the low mark. :/ These things really are like owning an old muscle car. lol On the weekend you've got the coolest car/bike around...the other 5 days are spent fixing it. :P (I used to have a '68 Corvette Convertible). | ||
| Pikeben08 |
I highly doubt engine oil in your primary would cause clutch slip. Many if not most if us run the same oil in both primary and engine. Now if you are using regular car oil in your engine with friction modifiers that may be a different story. Is the clutch actually slipping or is the bike just not going into gear at high rpm shifts? |
