| Author | Message | ||
     Foximus |
I could not find my original thread... So I'll start this one... and keep it more organized. So I have a 97 S1. I put an XB charging system on it. 38amp 3 phase. It did work when I installed it. I realized a few weeks ago I was having high voltage. Up to 18 volts. I replaced the voltage regulator. The new voltage regulator briefly did the same thing. Over charging to 18 volts. After much frustration of thinking I got the wiring wrong... ( I may have fried it in the process?) It now does not charge. At best it can barely sustain the battery. Also... the voltage regulator gets VERY hot. I can't find my laser thermo... but I'd say it would get to 160*-180*. I thought this might be because of a bad positive link to the battery, unable to unload all of the voltage so it would dissipate it as heat... double checked all that. Still no. Checked the ground... Still no. How hot does yours get? Should I just go ahead and buy ANOTHER one? | ||
| Harleyelf |
Why did you upgrade from two phase? Do you run high amperage accessories? It sounds like you got the wiring wrong and some of the power is getting stuck in the voltage regulator. Is it possible for the connector to be mis-installed? | ||
| Foximus |
I upgraded because the SINGLE phase stator only puts out 20 amps on a good day. My tail light and headlights alone take up almost 15 amps. I fooled around with some of the terminals and got some sparks... I may have shorted out this second one... which is why it does not charge now. However, when I installed it CORRECTLY the first time it was over charging. When I measure the output in AC from the stator i get 12-13 at idle and I can get it all the way up to 45 AC volts. However... the leads TO the stator, from the VR, are outputting 12 DC volts. So i'm thinking its got something fried. Since this is a permanent magnet stator, the voltage regulator should not be sending the stator voltage.... | ||
| Ratbuell |
As I stated in the original thread, you should get a shop/electrical manual for the XB and do a proper stator test to start with. Make sure you have the correct VR for the application - verify input range as related to the new stator, and output voltage as related to the chassis (and for that you will need your 97 S1 electrical or shop manual). I would NOT start throwing parts at it, until you get a chance to do a proper diagnosis on every single component. | ||
| Foximus |
Getting a shop manual is easier than just picking one off the shelf. If you have information that you would like to share... then that would be helpful. Otherwise repeating that getting a shop manual... not so much helpful. | ||
| Harleyelf |
There's a thread on electrical shop manuals somewhere nearby. Did you replace stator and rotor at the same time? The readings you get at the AC output sound right. The regular service manual doesn't have what you need - you need the electrical troubleshooting manual. It's part number is in the manuals section. How many headlights do you run? Mine draws 5 amps on high beam. Brake and tail lights together draw 2.17; with the coil and a turn signal or two it's still drawing under 10 amps. My stator had issues at 25,000 miles and I replaced stator and rotor with Sportster 22 amp parts. No problems in 17,000 miles. (Message edited by harleyelf on January 14, 2012) | ||
| Foximus |
I have 2 HID headlights, 55watt ballasts each, and a custom LED tail light that pulls 5amps on high. I replaced the original stator and VR at the same time. It worked for a number of months with no problems. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've never had a problem that I couldn't solve by following the step-by-step's in the proper manual. And getting a manual IS as easy as pulling it off the shelf; there are plenty of them still out there if you don't own one yet. If you want free troubleshooting advice from people who have not laid eyes or hands on your project, you need to post full information - "I installed a 38A 3ph charging system and it doesn't work" isn't very helpful for the folks who are trying to help you. 1. List EXACTLY what parts you installed, including part numbers. (DID you replace the stator AND the rotor, along with the VR?) 2. List EXACTLY how you wired it up. Every single wire connection. 3. List EXACTLY how you checked your voltage levels - as I stated in the other thread, improper check procedures will give inaccurate results. Those three steps will allow people to accurately help you. And FWIW, my 95 S2 with stock charging system has NO problem running not only the 55/65w H4 conversion headlight and the Ulysses LED taillight I installed, but I can add the 35w driving lights AND my heated jacket and gloves to the mix, and I still have plenty of charging capacity. I suspect you have other issues on your motorcycle if you had to upgrade in order to run just a pair of headlights and a taillight. But what do I know...I'm not so much helpful. | ||
| Foximus |
Oh come on dont get sore just because of that... | ||
| Harleyelf |
I think you are confusing fuse capacity with actual current draw. And that you probably have a short to ground somewhere. No LED tail lamp pulls 5 amps - 5x12=60 watts! It would blind drivers behind you. A short to ground in the wiring harness or an accessory installation wire can fry a voltage regulator every six months or so by constantly nagging it for more current than it wants to give. (Message edited by harleyelf on January 14, 2012) | ||
| Foximus |
LoL. You obviously dont understand. My tailight DOES pull 5.4amps. It is brighter than most peoples headlights. Literally. It uses a 72 volt driver... yes... 72 volt driver. a 4"x1.5" heat sinc on the back of the LED board. This is it shining in my shop... 15 feet away....  | ||
| Foximus |
This second picture was taken in broad daylight... Still washes out the camera. hahaha   | ||
| Brinnutz |
What brand is that? | ||
| Foximus |
Like I said... Hand made. Cost me $330 | ||
| Harleyelf |
Okay, there is one LED tail light that pulls 5.4 amps. I should have added "on the market" to the end of the phrase. You are indeed pulling 20 amps of current in addition to the battery charge. I figure that would take an hour of riding to recover from a 5-second use of the starter motor. You do indeed need more than 22 amps. Try another voltage regulator - take the part number of the stator with you when you shop for it. And look for shorts to ground because that current went somewhere to overload the first two regulators. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Not sore, but you ask for help. People offer help and you disregard. People tell you what information they need in order to provide accurate help, and the information doesn't appear. So...I won't lose any sleep over it. That's all. Good luck! I'm going for a ride... | ||
| Foximus |
I'm apologize Rat... I'm not disregarding your help at all. I know there is helpful information in a service manual, I just don't have access to one. If you had a information from the service manual, you didn't seem willing to share it. I've just been getting frustrated with this already, and If I seem short I dont mean to take it out on you. @Elf. heh. yea. Its a potent one, it pulls 6 amp on driver start up, backs down to 3 amps on normal running lights, and 5.4 amps on Braking. The HID's pull 6 amps on start up and back down to 4.2amps running. I have 2. Luckily my bike is pretty good about starting on one pop. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Fox, the manual for your bike is posted in the Knowledge Vault. It's been posted for quite a while, so it's not near the top of the list. But it is for your model and year. | ||
| Foximus |
Ah... well I never knew that. Though in this case it would be for an XB... not a s1. Thank you. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Not that I'm unwilling...but you still haven't posted information that I asked about. Nothing personal, but you're shooting in the dark. I need information so I'm not doing the same thing. List the parts you replaced. Take the readings the correct way (I posted that information in the other thread) and list the results. List your wiring schematic. THEN, you may get some help from people who still have not laid eyes on your motorcycle. And I repeat my original suggestion - GET A MANUAL. If you're going to be doing stuff like this, I can't imagine doing any of it without one. | ||
| Foximus |
Fine... I can understand that. However I asked two main questions that noone offered. If a working Voltage regulator would output 10 dcvolts to the stator leads, and how hot would a voltage regulator run? | ||
| Harleyelf |
A working voltage regulator could be made to output 10 volts DC to the battery if your idle is so low that the AC is under 20 volts. Not at speed. And not to the stator. Diodes in the regulator should prevent back-flow. There are fins on the regulator for a reason; running at full capacity with the heavy draw you pull I would expect it to be warm to the touch but not enough to leave burns on your hand. Semiconductors vary. Two units with the same part number might run at much different temperatures. | ||
| Foximus |
Well this one is definiately giving the stator 10 volts as would a XS650 or any older bike with a non permanent magnet setup. As for the fins... I can understand it getting hot... but not 150* within 30 - 60 seconds of idle. | ||
| Harleyelf |
No, 140 will burn you. 150 is too hot and one minute is too fast. Your regulator is either fried or the wrong one for the stator or both. (Message edited by harleyelf on January 15, 2012) | ||
| Foximus |
Like I said... I couldnt find my Laser Thermometer when I had it running last, Battery needs charging again now.... However I found my laser gun. I'll measure it next time. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Don't bother except to satisfy your curiosity. It's bad. Have you ever put a heavy ammeter in line with your switch to measure current flow? | ||
| Foximus |
Which switch? | ||
| Ratbuell |
And again - HOW DID YOU WIRE IT?? WHAT ROTOR ARE YOU USING? (You still haven't answered the question about whether you installed a matched stator and rotor, or just the stator - which, with a mismatched rotor could absolutely cause an overvolt condition). Short answer - no, a hot regulator is not right. And you might see 10v going back to the stator...because the other side of the VR is hooked to system voltage, and it is "outputting" whatever charge is in the battery. Long answer - it might not be a bad regulator, just badly wired. Again - don't throw parts at it until you verify proper installation. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Rat is completely correct. The switch I refer to is the one all the current passes through, the ignition relay. The current can be measured without disassembly at the fuse block. 12v at the battery and 10v at the regulator is not right. If you get a draw of 18 amps or less with your high beams on, I would recommend going back to a 22 amp alternator. There are aftermarket stators a bit more efficient than stock and that should be all you need. And I personally would put a switch on your head/tail lamp circuit so it can be off during start-up. I did that to my 120 inch monster with its 2.0kw starter. (Message edited by harleyelf on January 16, 2012) |
