| Author | Message | ||
     Db4570 |
I'm getting to know my new 2000 M2 over the last couple weeks, and am loving it. The handling is so much more predictable, solid, and less twitchy than the Kawasaki it replaced, which was a great handling bike itself. It seems I can just pick a lean angle and the bike does it effortlessly. I have been taking it easy, getting to know the bike's handling traits, but a couple times in a really tight corner, when going really slow, like under 30, I'll really lean it over to see what she'll do, and the back tire will start to slide out. It's not sudden or super scary, but it makes me worry what would happen if I was really pushing it on a fast curvy road. I haven't been leaning it that much. Nothing like knee dragging, not even a peg. But this is not confidence inspiring. I have ordered new tires (Metzler M3) for it, because the previous owner had beat up the current ones at a track day. The rear tire looks kinda chewed up, but doesn't seem that bad. I know everyone talks about how tires make a big difference, but this behavior seems drastic and unacceptable for even a crappy tire. When it does this it has that mushy feeling like the tire pressure is way too low or something. I have it at 34F 36R, which is all I could find listed on the internet, not having a manual, and not being able to locate one yet. Anyone with a source for tire pressure specs would be appreciated. Any ideas? Or should I just wait for the new rubber and see how it is then? I've had a few bikes over the years, but this is the first real modern sport bike I've had. I have some experience on winding roads, but I got this bike to really work them. I was progressing nicely until this started. How do you know how far you can push a bike without getting a rude shock? I'm too old and beat-up to go through the adventure of a wipe-out. Advice appreciated. Thanks! David | ||
| Chauly |
It sounds like the tires are heat-cycled from the track days and are hardened. I hate that feeling... Try the new tires first. I find that's the single biggest improvement on a bike. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
Michelin Pilot Road 2 or PR3 tires. You'll thank me later. I have them on four of my bikes. My 2001 S3 was doing almost the same thing you described and it happened with both the front AND rear (cornering just fine, then the tire gives way). It was all in the tires (Dunlop Roadsmart--worst tires I've run in years). | ||
| Rick_a |
I have really liked Pirelli Skorpion Syncs, Michelin Pilot Power and 2CT's, and Bridgestone BT016's (though they kinda suck when cold and wet). Tires I have hated are any well used track tires and all sport touring tires. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Most tires take an average pressure too, I thought my M2 spec'd 36 front and 38 rear. The exception was the Continental's which were run at manufacturers spec of 41-42 front and rear, and the didn't feel right unless they were running at the proper pressure. I dig the Scorpion Sync's on my XB, but don't like their handling on my M2's skinnier back rim, they aren't available in a proper 170 for the stock wheel, just the 180 (which is good for some, works on the PM wheel, but I notice the diff in handling on the Buell/CastAlloy wheel, and don't like it). My first thought was perhaps tire age and number of heat cycles, as Chauly mentioned. I've read good things about the M3's, I bet they do the trick for you. I'm looking forward to trying either Avon's or more likely the Pilot Road 2's next on my M2. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It might not be sliding, it might just be odd wear on the tire causing it to turn funny. Been a long time since I had an M2, but the Metzlers (Z4 and Z6 at the time) worked nicely. As mentioned, a Pilot Road 2 would be a great choice for an M2... "enough" stick and they would last a long time. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
First guess would be bad/worn tires. Fix- New tires. Everyone has their fav. I have the Bridgestone 023 (sport touring) on my 98 S1W and have no issues. Pirelli Corsa IIIs stuck like glue on my XB, but wear out kinda fast. 2nd guess would be suspension settings. Buells handle very well, but are sensitive to proper suspension settings. Fix- ensure the suspension settings are proper for your weight/riding style. 3rd guess would be at such a slow speed the tires aren't getting enough heat in them to stick. Fix- Generate more heat in the tires. Motorcycle tires generate heat by hard acceleration and hard braking. Go faster, brake harder! | ||
| Preybird1 |
I have the Michelin pilot power 2ct on ZX10R ninja and i love that rubber. The bike is putting down 175 rwhp on the dyno and almost 200 hp at the motor and the tires are holding the power nicely. I also have the michelin power pure on the X1 and used the tire at a couple track days. | ||
| Outdoors |
I put Michelin Pilot Road 3 tires on my 2000 M2 this summer and they are really a great tire for me. I run the stock rims and they come in the correct sizes, handling is great, and they are standing up very well. | ||
| Ratbuell |
1. pressures are too low. 36/38 or 38/40. 2. set your suspension - you may be feeling 'chatter', or the tire skipping across the road. Soften your rear settings 1/4 turn or so (set screws and definitions are in your owners manual) 3. New tires will definitely help. +1000 on the Pilot Road 2's and 3's. Got PR2s on my S2; PR3s just went on my S1W. Excellent tires, excellent wear characteristics, great handling. | ||
| Sparky |
If the tire has a worn flat section in the center from too much straight up riding, you might be experiencing what I felt on my 1125R. It would be fine in most corners but occasionally when beginning a sweeper type curve, the back end would slip sideways a little like as if it had run over a slippery tar snake momentarily. My guess is that as the tire transitions from the flat area to the shoulder area, it gets to a small radius section with it's much smaller contact patch which causes the wonky handling. Nothing serious would happen except it would ruin all my confidence on a twisty road. | ||
| Thejosh |
I'm not a big fan of Metzlers, neither are any of the guys I ride with. Dunlop Q2's are what I've been running. This last set has lasted about 6k with about 40% hard riding. They don't last long, but they stick like glue, even when wet. Pilots are good tires too, just my 2 cents. Josh | ||
| Two_seasons |
Dunlop SportMax Q2's baby...problem solved! | ||
| Db4570 |
Thanks for all the great input, guys. It sounds like the tires are probably the culprit. Sparky sums up a lot of what is happening: "the back end would slip sideways a little like as if it had run over a slippery tar snake momentarily". Yup. Just like that. It's not super sudden or fast. I notice it most when turning a corner at an intersection. I figure, I'm going slow enough, let's lean her over hard and see what happens. Ratbuell describes "chatter" which I think I have felt on other bikes, but not this one. Nonetheless, the suspension settings could be fiddled with, I'm sure. The other thing that Sparky may be on to is the wear in the middle rather than the sides, which this tire has in a big way. And the shoulders do look pretty crispy. I finally found a sticker talking about tire size and capacity, and I am way off on tire pressure, if I am to go by that. I am at 34F 36R, and the sticker says 42 for both. It mentions this in the context of maximum weight capacity, so I don't know if that's optimal for handling. Anyone got an M2 owner's manual and can look up the exact recommendations? I appreciate the various tire recommendations, but the Metzlers are on their way, so I will file the list away for the next set, which it sounds like won't be that far away the way these things go through tires. Any additional ideas or info appreciated! David | ||
| R850r |
I'm running Conti's, but at the shop I work at (BMW)...tire pressure is set at 36 F and 42 R...that's what I set mine at...ymmv (Buell Motor Werks)...lol | ||
| Kalali |
"...tire pressure is set at 36 F and 42 R." So are you guys saying we should follow the tire recommended pressure or the bike owner manual? IIRC my X1 owner's manual calls for something around 30-32. I set mine a little higher but not quite as high as some of you are suggesting. I have ContiForce front and rear. Thanks for any clarification. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
From the dudes at the race track I learned to set the Conti tires to factory spec (printed on sidewall). REason for that with the Conti's specifically is that they list a psi that is quite a bit higher than the owner's manual. I rode them at Buell spec out to the track with some curved roads on the way, and had ridden them that way in the local canyons. Increasing the pressure to their rating brought immediate improvements to feel and handling. I need to remember to check the manual for Buell recommended specs when I get home from work in the morning if someone doesn't get the info before then. From everything I've read and talked to tire reps (only a couple, and that was back in 07) about, as long as the tire is being used for it's intended purpose the sidewall spec is best to go with. | ||
| V74 |
My tires are set at 36f 42r and never had a problem. | ||
| Babired |
go to the tire manufactor site for the air pressure not the owners manual! I agree with the heat cycles, and it takes time and space for your track tires to warm up for best traction. when you get your new tires on your bike come back and post if you are losing traction again. | ||
| Blake |
Pressures printed on the tires are maximum allowable cold inflation pressures. They are NOT suggested inflation pressures; those can vary from bike to bike and also with the addition of a passenger. 42 psi seems awfully high to me for one-up riding. In general higher pressure reduces the area of contact with the road, the ubiquitous "contact patch", reduces tire flexure (improves rolling efficiency), lightens steering, and harshens suspension action over bumps. On the Uly, I like 38 psi rear, 36 psi front. | ||
| Db4570 |
That's what I always understood, Blake. Unfortunately, I don't have anything else to go by, not having an owner's manual, and having zero luck finding one. I haven't tried the dealer yet, but am not hopeful. Everyone has their own personal favorite tire pressures they use, but I can't find the official factory recommendation anywhere. David | ||
| Harleyelf |
The service manual for 1999 says 32-36 front and 36-38 rear. Low value for solo and high for fully loaded. Blake is, as usual, right on the numbers. Too much for conditions makes for inadequate contact patch; too little and you will shift the rim sideways. | ||
| Db4570 |
New tires installed. The garage that installed them warned me to take it easy for a bit until the slick coating was worn off. So I did, until today, when I leaned her over in a curve and the back end slid out bad, almost dumping the bike if I hadn't put my leg out and dragged my boot. A bit unnerving. So perhaps there was still some slick stuff on the edge of the tire that hadn't worn off, but how do you wear the stuff off unless you lean it over hard, but if you do that it loses traction? Still trying to learn this bike. Trying to figure out how far I'll be able to safely push it without finding out the hard way. Tire pressure at 34F 37R, sort of split the difference between min and max that Harleyelf references, because I'm a big guy. David | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Just ride easy for a bit, don't lean it over hard until you've put some miles on the tire. Leaning it over "hard" as you put it, will put you entirely on the mold release coated rubber, rather than rubbing the coating off a bit at a time (gradually increase your lean angle) while you carefully wear in your new tires. If you look at the tires you'll see the coating, and where it has worn. It's frustrating to put new tires on and want to ride them, having to wait still to see what was going on before. If you can't stand to wait maybe find an empty, clean parking lot and turn some gentle circles paying special attention to how your traction feels. As it begins to feel more secure gradually increase your lean to scrub in those sides a bit. Be careful, if you goose the throttle or toss the bike on its side too soon you'll be staring at the sky and wondering why your bike left you in a heartbeat!! They'll stop feeling slick soon and you'll be good to go  | ||
| Db4570 |
Good advice, LB I like the idea of gradually scrubbing them off in a parking lot. The problem with scrubbing them as I ride normally is I don't know how much of a lean angle I will need until I am actually in a particular curve at a particular speed. My initial impression of this bike was that it's more forgiving entering a curve a little hot, because it is so responsive to just leaning it in tighter if needed. Now that predictability doesn't seem that definite. I obviously need a lot of practice. David | ||
| Fast1075 |
Scrub the tires with a scouring pad and soap...be sure to rinse them carefully to remove the soap...that will take care of any mold release that may be on them. Tires need a few heat cycles to "set" the rubber...ride a while and let it sit until the tires cool off..repeat a few times...after maybe 200 miles, they are as ready to run as they ever will be. | ||
| Fahren |
Brake cleaner is also recommended to remove mould release film. | ||
| Chauly |
I always find a hard-packed dirt or gravel parking lot and practice my tight turns with gentle throttle. It wears the release compound of in a jiffy... | ||
| Blake |
What??? Brake cleaner on tires??? Where the heck's that recommended???  Please no. Modern motorcycle tires are pretty much ready to ride in my experience. No amount of ritual preparation will compensate for less than ideal roadway conditions. The truth is that the tires are seldom the weak link. Are we not riding on public roads, roads where any number of lubricant or coolant spewing vehicles may travel, where tar, sand, dirt, gravel or moisture may lay hidden, where traffic may polish the surface, where leaves, moss, algae, and even the slippery remnants of unfortunate critters may lay? Is it reasonable when we experience a little adrenalin inducing loss of traction, to then commence blaming poor tire performance? Loss of traction is rarely the fault of the tires. If it is, then get some new tires. Simple. Want to drag a knee or ride like a race track hero?, Then please for the sake of all who love you and motorcycling in general, take it to the track; you'll find it immensely more enjoyable and satisfying. Respect the randomness and chaos of the public roadway else natural selection may impose the ultimate penalty. Even then, the drunk guy in the oncoming lane, or the large critter making a dash for the other side of the road may still get you. Please ride smart. | ||
| Blake |
Sorry for the bloviating. David, sounds to me like you are riding very sensibly. Is it possible what you are experiencing may be due to failed rear isolators? Probably not, they just impart a loose waggling/wandering feeling. Maybe there is some oil getting onto the rear tire. Check the crankcase breather vent and the transmission breather vent. If either lacks a catch can, then install one. Also, even just a little moisture from exhaust on a cool tire or cool road can lead to the issue you describe. If the pegs aren't dragging, then you are likely far from where traction would be an issue, even for brand new cold street tires, assuming of course the road surface is decent; see bloviating above on that. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) I run 36/34 psi on my Cyclone. Metzeler makes very good tires! I set my personal best at the local track on Metzelers. Good luck! (Message edited by blake on October 24, 2011) |
