| Author | Message | ||
     Bgbrd |
Recently I just installed a new front isolator on my 98 S3T that I got from American Sport Bike. It says it is an updated design. It came with a 7/16" bolt instead of the original 1/2". This doesn't seem right going with a smaller bolt but the parts list says that is what should be there for that application. It went together well and there is just a little bit more vibes than before. If this is correct than why did they go with a smaller bolt? | ||
| Two_seasons |
Not sure. Call Al at American Sport Bike and ask him. | ||
| Blackm2 |
The bolt wasn't the issue, somewhere along the way someone at Harley Ok'd a change in the durometer of the originals rubber not realizing or checking if they applied to any other bikes. When they changed the rubber compound, our bikes which the motor is hanging on those mounts, as opposed to the Harley application which the motor sits on the mount, they were tearing prematurely. Prior to closure of Buell this was one of the last things they worked on and it was extensively tested. The vibes will mellow out. I had gone through 3 of the old mounts prior to the new design, and this new design has more than doubled its longevity~4000 miles. Not much but I have much more confidence in this one than the last one. Size doesn't matter in this case, of the bolt that is. | ||
| Buellistic |
Remember this: This front motor mount is off the FL/FX BIG TWIN PLATE FORM ... The FL/FX motors set on this motor mount where the BUELL engine HANGS FROM IT !!! It could not handle the 103/105 C.I. engines so the HARLEY-DAVIDSON engineers in 2009 went to two rear isolator mounts on the front ... For "SAFETY" have a machinist enlarge the bolt hole to the OEM BOLT HOLE SIZE !!! ISOLATOR INFORMATION Class 101, just PM me if you want a copy .. | ||
| Guell |
DO NOT ENLARGE THE BOLT HOLE ON THE NEW ISO, it isnt needed for safety. | ||
| Buellistic |
Guell: Lets say just for example your V8 car engine OEM motor mounts came with 1/2 inch bolts and a new motor mount kit came with 1/4 inch bolts ... Do you think they would hold the engine ... For "SAFETY", IMHO use the OEM BOLTS by having a machinist open up the bolt hole !!! YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT THE FL/FX BIG TWINs PLATE FORM SETS ON THIS MOTOR MOUNT AND THE BUELL ENGINE HANGS FROM IT !!! This motor mount could not hold the 103/105 Cubit Inch engines and in 2009 the front engine mounting was up-dated to use two rear motor mounts up front !!! The Old Parts Man Speaks .. (Message edited by buellistic on September 07, 2011) | ||
| Guell |
why do you think buell did extensive testing? So they could make a faulty part? We already had that,it was the harley designed pat, thats why it was redesigned. Do you think they would have put out a front iso that was unsafe? I think redrilling an iso would be more unsafe than using the new bolt that was extensively tested. You have never made it clear if your running the updated buell part or just a big twin iso. As i recall in the last thread about this, you hadnt even seen the instructions for it yet... To everyone else, i would follow the instructions that the iso comes with, and i wouldnt drill it or affect the structural integrity of it. (Message edited by guell on September 07, 2011) | ||
| Essmjay |
The new iso is carefully designed for the Buell application, it is not a leftover HD part. Drilling it out modifies the design in a way not anticipated by the requirements of the design. This is not one of the aftermarket isos being adapted to this use. I would use the bolt (that comes with the new iso) to lift two tons in a vertical lift with my crane, and not be concerned about it snapping. I recommend you do not drill the hole out. (Message edited by essmjay on September 07, 2011) | ||
| Spiderman |
Well Old Parts man! You realllllly need to drop this. You have no idea about the new Isolator kit. What went into it and who developed it. Engineers at Buell used their own bikes to develop a fix. They put their asses on the line to come up with this kit even when they knew the doors were closing. In fact you constant ranting is an insult to those who worked on it. A few of them being personal friends. I even gave you one of their email address and you spouted off right from the get go like a pompous ass. While you have had a few great ideas and a few tips in the past. You really need to drop this one as you really do not have a clue... | ||
| Buellistic |
The R&D that is the proof of the pudding is if will last when the customer gets it and the CUSTOMER R&D proves it time and time again !!! This is not a left over part as it is still used on the pre-2008 FL/FX BIG TWIN PLATE FORMS and this front motor mounting was up-dated in 2009 on the FL/FX plate forms ... It is a RETRO-FIT PART from the FL/FX BIG TWIN PLATE FORM and not a NEW ISOLATOR designed just for BUELLs ... Think you should read the INSTALLATION SHEET where it says put a FLAT JACK under the front of the muffler to take the weight off the front isolator, YOU'LL have enough trouble with your exhaust systems with out using the muffler as a lift point ... Will be glad to send you a copy so you can read it your selves, just PM me for a copy ... You do not think that some thing would be put on the street that is unsafe, well think again and here is a FACT !!! At DAYTONA 2003 a rider was killed on a BUELL DEMO RIDE ... In NOVEMBER 2003 there was a recall to install a THROTTLE CLIP KIT of the 1999 and later(B-056 NOV 2003) ... There was no RECALL FOR THOSE 1998 and older ??? When "i" bought my 1997 S3T and took the gas tank off, "i" saw this as a "SAFETY" issue an safety wired my throttle cables to the THROTTLE CABLE BRACKET !!! Any one that wants a copy of this recall, just PM me for a copy ... IMHO, "i" want my BUELL RACE QUALITY "SAFE" !!! | ||
| Spiderman |
I can't even respond to that, just wow... | ||
| Fast1075 |
If the actual part number for the isolator itself (not the kit) is 16207-79D ..is IS a big twin isolator...it sure looks like a 16207-79D..they also used a 7/16" mount bolt...I put one on my Blast after shredding four stockers in less than 1,000 miles...the 16207-79D had over 5,000 miles on it when I traded it in on my Lightning..still going strong. Who has a break down of the individual part numbers of all the bits in the kit? | ||
| Spiderman |
BTW nothing in your last post was fact Lafayette, just speculation and rumor. | ||
| Rex |
4,000 miles? I have 45,000 on my Buell M2. Still looks good. | ||
| Blackm2 |
If you're referring to my post Rex, that's 4000 miles on the updated isolator. I have over 32,000 on the bike. | ||
| Guell |
17025-B - Front Isolator, 95-02 Tube frame models Front Isolator/Motor Mount for 95'-02' Tube frame Buells(OEM part). This is the new design released in early 2010 to fix the problems that occurred when HD re-eningeered the part without considering the Buell application. This one should last much longer than the intirim ones. Includes a new bolt and installation instructions, as it mounts a little differently than the old mount. Straight from american sport bikes web page. I still say dont mess with the bolt size, dont drill out the iso. It would be worse to possibly compromise the integrity of the iso by drilling it out. Ive never had any issues with my exhaust system on my bike, dont know why that was brought up in this thread | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: NOW THE REST OF THE "STORY" !!! Looked at Guell and Spidermans PROFILES and Guell has a 1997 M2 and Spiderman has a 1995 S2, SO PAY ATTENTION BUELLers !!! What they have said about ISOLATOR KIT Part Number L1501.8 is TRUE for 2000 to the end of the production run for TUBE FRAME BUELLS, "BUT" if you have a 1999 or older TUBE FRAME BUELL you need to PAY ATTENTION TO THIS !!! From 2000 to the end of the TUBE FRAME production run the the isolator was up-dated(retro-fit from the BIG TWIN FL/FX plate forms) which uses a 7/16" inch bolt from the isolator to front motor mount ... From 1999 back to 1997 plus on farther back the isolator to front motor mount uses a 1/2" inch bolt !!! "SO" there is three ways to correct this KIT going to the smaller OD bolt: 1. Have the isolator hole open up to use the OEM 1/2" bolt with correct clearance ... 2. Have a sleeve made to make up the difference from the 7/16" to 1/2" inch bolt for correct clearance ... 3. Buy a 2000 or later front motor mount ... From the old parts man... | ||
| Spiderman |
Fell free to listen to Old Out of date info. But be warned. Anything Buellistic says in regards to the new Iso kit is false and erroneous. Follow the instruction. DO NOT Drill, ream and or modify in any way. | ||
| Blackm2 |
Mine is an '01, it originally had the 1/2" bolt. It now has the new kit with the 7/16" bolt. I'm sure that bolt is plenty strong. Motor mount to head bolts will break before that one does.  | ||
| Jramsey |
I've been running the 79D drilled Iso for 3 years in both my S3 and X1 and installed another one in a locals guys M2 with no ill effects. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/412795.html?1226377963 I do like the fact the same Iso is now being sold by Al for about one half the H-D price. (Message edited by Jramsey on September 09, 2011) | ||
| Fahren |
I'm not into fighting over who did what testing, or where the part came from. The following is a clear description of what my concern over this "new" part setup is, from the leading Buell technician in England (Buell-trained here, shop works exclusively on Buell bikes):
As I said, I really don't care to argue if it was developed, tested, etc. I am just voicing a concern, borne out by the experience of someone who makes his living servicing Buells and only Buells. | ||
| Buellistic |
"i" have said "SAFETY" many, many times !!! | ||
| Spiderman |
I've said cheeseburger a lot too... | ||
| Fast1075 |
 | ||
| Brscott73 |
The sloppiness of the 7/16 bolt in the 1/2 opening of the mount has alway bothered me. I'm currently using it as described by HD. However, I think Buellistic hit on a solution that covers the best of both sides of the story: "2. Have a sleeve made to make up the difference from the 7/16" to 1/2" inch bolt for correct clearance." I may consider doing this. I'm still running the stock cast mount, so how would this affect an upgrade to an NRHS mount in the future? I'm not trying fuel the fight, I just need a good solution since this is my daily commuter year round. -Br- | ||
| Kalali |
"The sloppiness of the 7/16 bolt in the 1/2 opening of the mount has alway bothered me.." Likewise. I went ahead and put an "extra" flat snubber washer(with 7/16" hole) on top to sandwich the entire ISO. Not sure if it makes a difference in long run but should limit potential movement due to rubber/sleeve wear. | ||
| Richsm2 |
Al from American Sport Bike sent me this info for a sleeve http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PSearch2.asp?req Typ=parametric&act=PSearchStd&FAM=stainlesssteel&F T_135=628&FT_136=1000&FT_104=4054&FT_424=24574&FT_ 719=44020&FT_143=44240&FT_1052=44241&FT_1143=44268 &FT_720=58062&FT_134=59944&FT_999=89459&FT_2044=89 519&FT_2041=89569&FT_138=89663&FT_2362=104751&FT_5 18=107865&FT_2991=130603&FT_101=131943&FT_101=1319 44&FT_2608=182916&FT_4405=194808&FT_742=252515&FT_ 1419=306359&FT_1419=306360&FT_9289=324505&context= itmLookup&ScreenWidth=1920&McMMainWidth=840 | ||
| Richsm2 |
I am ordering this material, 12'',1" will be enough to work with, if you want a piece e mail me and I will cut and send it to you. Until the excess is gone. | ||
| Greg_cifu |
That tubing is a very good idea to stabilize the bolt. One caveat: that's stainless steel and the mount it's going through (on the engine) is aluminum. The two materials really don't like each other corrosion-wise. That hole will quickly turn into a pocket of nastiness. (before this spirals into another argument, here is a relevant link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion The way to avoid that is to keep it from ever getting wet. To do that, slather the bolt, the spacer and the hole with some kind of gasket sealer or silicone sealer. If the two metals can't touch and can't get wet, they won't corrode. | ||
| Buellistic |
Richsm2: "THANKS" for the "NFO" and "i" will pass it on !!! |
