| Author | Message | ||
     Rickie_d |
Yup… So if one spoke has four tooth load applied and another has 3.5 tooth load on the same unit; then you build the spokes for the greater load. That as a givin, I answered the question simply they are different type of spoke, different base material, requiring more or less spokes… I find this hysterical and akin to, someone posting a picture of this steel wheel which they have.  And asking for input on modifying it to look like this steel wheel….  And getting feedback on the virtues and attributes of this cast wheel and why or why not it should or should not be altered….  Oh, and let's throw in the hazards of poking holes in brake rotors for added distraction. This is no longer about communicating clearly and simply, it is a pissing contest….or picking fly shit out of pepper. Come on…Too funny!!!! | ||
| Blake |
If you don't care to discuss the technical aspects of the issue, that's fine by me. I personally have no interest in condescending or insulting commentary. "So if one spoke has four tooth load applied and another has 3.5 tooth load on the same unit; then you build the spokes for the greater load. That as a givin, I answered the question simply they are different type of spoke, different base material, requiring more or less spokes…" I suspect that most of the design load from the belt is transferred to the sprocket through a very limited number of teeth, say around five or so. About the centroid of the spokes, that applied load would be represented in the form of two shears, one tangential and one radial. They would be spread among the effective number of teeth and applied as pressures to the applicable pitch face of the teeth and as analysis determines would be reasonable. How that applied loading is then carried internally to the wheel hub is where the difference begins. Using the DHM billet sprocket design to bound the amount of lightening feasible for the OEM sprocket is absolutely a 100% valid and useful observation. It certainly is not so wildly different as a steel wheel of one configuration versus an aluminum one of an entirely different design. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Then again, is the H-D version machined or as-cast? as-cast  | ||
| Rickie_d |
>>>>I'd say that if it's good on a big heavy hog bike, then it ought to be good on a Buell. That statement flies in the face of that ”No designer or engineer wants an ounce of weight on a bike that doesn't serve a purpose” quote, and highlights my point without the rhetoric…Thanks!! >>>> Then again, is the H-D version machined or as-cast? If you do not know this fundamental detail (even though I pointed it out several times) then why are you weighing in? That is a rhetorical question, so no response is necessary, but I think Scott gets it! >>>> I suspect that most of the design load from the belt is transferred to the sprocket through a very limited number of teeth, say around five or so. You missed the point…unless condescending comes to mind. Seriously…you really take yourself much more seriously that I do and are not as thick skinned as you have claimed for the last ten years or so…. Just because someone can reduce gobbly-goop to what is really relevant to the audience does not make them condescending; however condescending is exactly what I would suggest someone is that insists on talking over the general audiences head. Or maybe it is just that you are not as revered by me as you would like. The old Oz syndrome comes to mind. Insert one of your approved waging emoticons here!!! It is like a political analyst being accused of being condescending or trite because they can reduce the commentary of a politician to real world relevance. Public – “What did he say and how does it apply to me?” Analyst – “Although what was said was impressive sounding and technically accurate, nothing was really relevant to the subject at hand and did not provide you with useful information.” I am sure that your advice on this topic is extremely useful, and nothing I brought to the table provided any clarity, so carry on and try to have some fun! Remember, never drink Kool-Aid from a vat or take internet advice as gospel!!! | ||
| Blake |
Scott, I'm not sure what effect of machining versus the as-cast state would be, it may be better or worse as far as metal fatigue is concerned. Sorry to not be more help. I really enjoy talking tech on stuff like this. | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
Based on what has been discussed so far,it seems like machining the pulley would not remove a lot of weight but could compromise strength and safety. If the goal is improved appearance, I would simply polish it. If reduction of unsprung weight is the goal I would probably leave the sprocket alone and look for the lightest tire available. | ||
| Rickie_d |
If I was looking for the least unsprung weight I would opt for Blake’s example above or the late model Buell design. However I think the string started with the thought of applying some aesthetics to what is stock for the given model without compromising integrity. Time to go and work in the machine shop….Hope to have some new stuff to show off Monday morning! | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
but could compromise strength and safety. So does pushing extra HP through stock components - but that doesn't stop anyone here (including Court) from adding more to their tuber does it?  | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
notice how the bolts are right above the spokes and not above the " hole" http://darkhorsemoto.com/assets/images/db_images/d b_DHM125MBA1.jpg Notice how the softail has a beefed up section of material below all the bolts. Notice how two bolts sit above round holes in the stock Buell part. i will not modify the stock Buell part. | ||
| Fasted |
 intelligent warnings and concerns have been voiced. shall we let natural selection take it's course even if we have to sacrifice a few tubers for the cause??? | ||
| Phelan |
To lose a big of unsprung weight from my tuber (S2, named Priscilla btw), I converted to XB wheels. The sandblaster was out of town the day I had to get them both on, but eventually I'll get them bare and paint them black with polished lips. In the meantime, I only enjoy some of the cool look and all of the performance advantages. I lost around 4 lbs off the front, and wanna say it was about a pound off the rear, but I can't remember. Anyway, I did a bit of picky shopping and fabrication, but I have less than $150 net in my conversion. And yes, the XB pulley is quite a bit lighter than the Sportster pulley.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nice look! The open intake scares me though... | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
So machining a stock pulley is evil voodoo even though searching around the web indicates there are several companies that do it? I think we can presume hundreds, probably thousands have been modified and two failures - one where it is obvious that they went to far and the other appears likely that a severely overtightened belt may have added to the situation - is all you guys can find? For those who say "I wouldn't do it", great I fully respect that and am interested in your opinion too. For those who just want to insult anybody who would even consider doing this - this is Old School, go back to the Quick Board if all you want to do it stir the pot please - you bring nothing to the discussion. You guys with big HP - you are probably putting out 3x the HP of the 1st bike to wear this pulley - how do you know you aren't going to have a failure? Why haven't you gone with a billet pulley? Why haven't any of you commented on the caliper adapter in the photo above? I bet it has not undergone any stress analysis and has a much greater potential for disaster than a failed pulley IMO. I am not against more HP (who is) and the stock pulley is probably fine. I am not against adapting XB wheel/brakes, I bet that tuber stops very nicely. I am just saying to look around, maybe at your own bike, and consider what you don't have a problem with (that has not had professional stress analysis) before having a knee jerk reaction that machining the pulley is bad. | ||
| Blake |
Engine HP is not likely the factor governing the critical design load(s). Think dropping the clutch in first gear or when upshifting aggressively or when downshifting aggressively. Engine inertia can be a very powerful factor. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I'm just using it as an example Blake and do not have the knowledge to dispute what you are saying but will make a point; Think dropping the clutch in first gear or when upshifting aggressively Now imagine doing the same with substantially more torque! Go to the dragstrip on a street night - the Mustangs and Civics spitting out driveshafts, rear ends, axles and CV joints are usually the ones with modified engines and stock drivetrains. | ||
| Blake |
Scott, Even a stock Sportster 883 has enough engine inertia and thus torque to flip the bike by dropping the clutch. The engine power really isn't a governing factor in the amount of torque hitting the rear wheel for the case of dropping the clutch in 1st gear, maybe even 2nd gear. Likewise, engine torque is nowhere in the equation when pulling in the clutch, downshifting two or three gears and dropping the clutch. It is all engine and transmission inertia. Think of spinning up a big flywheel and then trying to stop it by grabbing it with your hand. No power need be applied to the flywheel for it to rip your hand off. | ||
| Andymnelson |
  | ||
| Froggy |
Bump  (Message edited by froggy on March 23, 2010) | ||
| Andymnelson |
Thanks for the magic bump Frank! I like my rear pulley much better now, and thought some others might as well! | ||
| Fasted |
big improvement... | ||
| Blackm2 |
Bastard Andy! I haven't gotten mine yet. Looks awesome though! | ||
| Andymnelson |
Lol. I live within 1 day of them via UPS. I'm very happy with it, and even got out for the first ride of the season last night! | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
looks great Andy - mine isn't here yet either.... | ||
| Jayvee |
NICE. Can you tell us where you got it done, and the approximate price range? Thanks. | ||
| Andymnelson |
PM sent. Sorry, no sponsor stepped up and I won't advertise another's wares here. | ||
| Guell |
yo andy, i replied to your pm to me a month or so ago, never heard back, mind pming me the details again | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Mine just got here - looks great! I'll post a pic after I get it on the bike... | ||
| Andymnelson |
Matt- SOO sorry that I previously missed your PM! I just replied to it now tho, let me know how I can help make it happen for ya. | ||
| Blackm2 |
Mine came today too. Looks great but kinda pissed he didn't attempt to mill that edge down. Wouldn't have take enough material off to affect the belt. Have to find someone here that will do it. Let me know if you get another order going Andy I may be up for another one. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Cool- did he not do anything to it? |
