| Author | Message | ||
     Scottorious |
ok so in a matter of days I am going to pull the trigger on some performance parts but I dont like options. The reason I dont have it now is because I cant decide on what to get. I could save 300 dollars and buy an nrhs iron lined 1250 kit or the next option is the nik a sil revperf 1250 kit and then at like 1200 is the nrhs nik a sil kit. I really was considering the revperf otion but saving 300 bucks sounds really good too. | ||
| Scottorious |
that extra 300 dollars could mean new cams although then would have to come headwork i imagine. | ||
| Brinnutz |
I opted for the Nikasil's, and I'm a penny pincher. | ||
| Creature_x1 |
I bought the pistons for that kit, and then bored out my stock cylinders to fit. Don't let them B.S. you, So if your penny pinching(in my experience not a bad thing in this case), buy the pistons, have a knowledgeable machine shop match the cylinders to the pistons, save another $100 and call it a day. (Message edited by blake on February 10, 2010) | ||
| Scottorious |
is this a true statement about the cylinders being just bored stock cylinders? I thought they were new castings. | ||
| Brinnutz |
The Nikasils are aluminum, no liner. You could hone them out yes. But, they would still be heavier than the Nikasils. Call Jim & Terry at JT&S Performance (they're a sponsor), and they will tell you their take... | ||
| Jayvee |
If you're going to a knowledgable machine shop to be bored, why not buy your pistons through them too? There are several reputable brands of piston. Supports your local etc. There's couple places closer to me than Colorado that does head porting, for that matter. Oh well, like you said, too many options; just do somthing, while the weather's still bad! | ||
| Phelan |
Their cylinders are NOT stock cylinders overbored. The stock liners, if bored .060 over, are much thinner than the ones supplied by either of these shops (I know this is the case at NRHS, and I don't doubt it is at Revolution Performance). On a high performance build, it is not safeto run stock cylinders bored that much over because there's the material left wears quickly when it gets hot (like high RPMs). The ones supplied by these two companies are much stronger, especially the optional Axtells at NRHS. | ||
| Kyrocket |
The cylinders I received from NRHS WERE NOT stock cylinders and as said before the pistons are CP and seem to be a big step up from stock. That's all I can speak of personally because these are the only ones I've dealt with. Great CS also. Michael | ||
| Blake |
You don't do your own honing on nikasil or nicom plated cylinders. They are factory plate and hone only. For the Buell, Axtell and Revolution Performance both recommend the plated cylinders over solid iron or iron-lined cylinders as the all aluminum provides superior cooling (better heat transfer). | ||
| Blake |
Cylinder recommendation per Axtell:
Their reasoning:
| ||
| Brinnutz |
I knew there was a good reason for me choosing them. lol | ||
| Blake |
Brian Nallin, founder of NRHS now running Revolution Performance, on boring OEM cylinders to 1050cc or 1250cc diameter: (Message edited by blake on January 22, 2010) | ||
| Oldog |
I would question the longevity of stock cylinders bored out much over standard size the liners are VERY VERY thin, I replaced the front one because it cracked last year, IF you bore the standards out 060 inch you might have about that much left, In addition to containing the energy released by combustion / and containing compression forces on our bikes they are a structural member, and that big of an over bore weakens them. heck Just the normal clamping forces applied by bolting the head on distorts them, and making them lighter will not help.. My 0.02$ I would use Cyclerama / Rev perf or any of our SPONSOR shops for the work and use new good parts where possible. I can vouch for Pammy and Co Top shelf.... | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Iron lined from NRHS ARE NOT stock cylinders. I installed them last winter and have zero complaints. I chose not to go the nikasil route because I'd heard that installation methods are a little more important. Being my first tim rebuilding a top end, I chose iron-lined.  notice that the sleeve in the pic below is a lot thicker than the sleeves in stock cylinders.    | ||
| Scottorious |
I am going to go with the Iron lined 1250 kit. Is NRHS not a sponsor? I didnt see them in the sponsor section. considering its only 700 dollars that leaves some money for some additional go-fast parts. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
they used to be but no longer are. | ||
| Brinnutz |
I'd go with the others if I was you, but hey, I'm not you...Oh, and you can get them for under MSRP...FYI, pm me and I can tell you how | ||
| Scottorious |
pm sent | ||
| Flyin_brian |
I'd like to chime in here with my experiences with REV PERF. 3 years ago they were making kits for HD Twin Cam motors that would increase the a stock 88ci motor to 98ci using the stock flywheels. At this time HD was only offering 95ci kits, so it was a very popular kit and quite a few guys were buying them and posting excellent dyno results. I have a Harley Street Glide so I bought a 98ci kit and ran it for 10K miles. It got to the point where I was adding a FULL QUART of oil with every tank of fuel!! I had oil pouring out of the breathers and blowing down my right leg on every ride. Sucked hard. I took the motor back apart and the rings had scraped portions of the coating off, and had not even touched other areas of the cylinder. It was the strangest thing I had ever seen. I sent them back to RP and they called me back and told me the pistons were too small, and that's why it failed. They had a new design and they would replace my cylinders under warranty but I would need to buy the new piston design. The crappy part is they supplied the original pistons WITH the kit!!! So after blowing over $1000 buying their kit and another couple hundred in wasted oil :P I now had to pay another $300 to buy pistons to fix the problem. At this point there were maybe 50 guys on the forum that had purchased this kit, and some of them had replaced them 2 and 3 times and still had the same problem. If you are planning to buy something from REVPERF, I would suggest you do your homework and make sure they honor their warranties. I will try to include an ugly photo for your amusement   | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
thanks Brian, yes be careful you allz. | ||
| Blake |
I'd go with the Revolution Performance kit, not only because Brian Nallin is a stand-up guy, but because their products are top shelf. That said, anytime I build a top end, I always check the pistons for correct sizing. Also be sure you use the correct rings. Chrome plated rings are a no-no in nicasil lined cylinders. The cheap iron lined cylinders are made in China. I'm sure they're fine quality wise, but anyone who roadraces a Buell runs the nicasils. Axtell recommends the plated all aluminum cylinders for Buells as well for their superior cooling efficiency. Saving $300 ain't worth it in my view. (Message edited by blake on February 04, 2010) | ||
| Flyin_brian |
Blake - I failed to explain that I don't believe the pistons were too small, I believe it was a bullshit excuse by RP to shift the blame to a part which is not under warranty (which was a surprise to find they only warranty 1 out of 3 pieces in the kit). I don't have a machine shop here, which is why I chose to buy my parts as a kit, which included cylinders, pistons and rings, together from the manufacturer and ready to install. If Brian Nallin was such a stand up guy, he should have stood behind his product and replaced it for free, instead of charging me $300 for his "new improved design" pistons. If they needed an improved design to actually work, there must have been something wrong with the previous design... why should I have to pay for his R&D? Doesn't sound like a stand up guy to me. | ||
| Scottorious |
well...thanks guys, haha. I was just about to order some rev perf cylinders until the most recent posts. Have they improved their stuff recently? Does anyone have good reports on rev perf customer service? | ||
| Scottorious |
another vote against nikasil.... this is just getting more difficult. | ||
| Blake |
It shouldn't be. When industry leaders in solid iron, iron sleeved, and all aluminum nicom lines cylinders like Axtell advise that all aluminum nicasil/nicom is the way to go for Buell engines, there really isn't a valid reason to question them. Additionally, a lifetime warranty speaks volumes. There are other factors in play here, so you should be VERY discerning in who and what you trust. | ||
| Scottorious |
Would anyone agree that those scuffed cylinders could have resulted in improper pre-installation washing? I have heard that there is usually some diamond dust in the cylinders and they must be very thoroughly cleaned before installation. | ||
| Flyin_brian |
Hi Scott, in my cylinder kit there was a slip of paper stating they needed to be cleaned with hot soapy water before installation. I went one step further and washed out each cylinder with a FULL can of brake-clean before washing it twice in the kitchen sink with hot soap suds and scrubbing with a nylon brush. I had heard that improper cleaning was one of the possible causes for failure which is why I cleaned mine so well. Another possible cause was ring gap, which I checked and re-checked before assembly. Whatever the cause, I am completely confident that in my case the failure was not caused by improper cleaning. | ||
| Oldog |
FULL can of brake-clean before washing it twice in the kitchen sink that may not have helped, the point of using soap and water on the cylinders is to loosen and remove abraisives and OILs from the walls, using a solvent, tends to inbed the grits } My 0.02 Scott, IF you are uncomfortable using Nicasil, don't but many folks have them with no complaint, FYI Nicasil cylinders are a desirable upgrade in light aircraft engines, ultimately its your money, and your peace of mind. If your going to worry about em use iron... | ||
| Scottorious |
well i just like to really get a lot of reviews on anything i buy. I could also worry about the iron lined cylinders because of the different metals and expansion rates and the possibility of the liner coming loose. I really want to go with nikasil but with such outspoken complaints its a hard choice. |
