| Author | Message | ||
     Scdobber |
Ok the cough is gone which is very positive,I replaced all the intake seals which were fine but replaced anyway while I had everything apart.I put in a 45 slow jet,drilled the cap and set the mixture a 2.5 turns,idle seems to be better,the slow speed surge is 75% better but I feel like the mixture screw needs to be adjusted a bit more because if I let it idle for 2 minutes or so it seems to be on the rich side and the throttle is not as responsive and may pop,my issue is getting to the mixture screw while it is running,any tips on that? My service manual has nothing on mixture adjustments. Just to be on track the slow jet and mixture have nothing to do with high rpm,just from the transition from idle to mid rpm correct because it feels a bit slower through the rpm band. Not that I'm wanting to wheelie but if I roll the throttle in 1st it's not responsive as it should be (Message edited by scdobber on November 15, 2009) | ||
| Bluzm2 |
You should try shimming the needle about .050", it helps. You can get washers toe correct size at most hobby ships, they use them for axel and motor spacers for RC cars. Or, you can modify a regular washer by lots of filing and swearing when you drop it and chase it around the garage floor.... | ||
| Buellistic |
If you need to go out past 2 1/2 turns on the IDLE MIXTURE SCREW from the seat, you should put in a #48 LOW SPEED JET ... The FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL says nothing about the IDLE MIXTURE SCREW because it was set at the FACTORY because of "EPA" and "NEVER TO BE" adjusted(caped,"AND" SHOULD BE ADJUSTED DUE TO ENGINE MILES or any timing corrections)which is TOO LEAN for an air cooled engine ... If you set the engine timing with the timing mark just coming into the rear of the timing plug hole, IDLE MIXTURE SCREW 2 1/2 turns out from seat, LOW SPEED JET a #48, your OEM M2 needle("BEST NEEDLE") raised, 0.050 inch, the SLIDE HOLE drilled out 1/8 inch and RADIUS'ED, a #200 HIGH SPEED JET, a K&N Air Filter, OEM Heat Range spark plugs gaped at 0.030 inch, and HIGH TEST GAS your engine will run fine ... "HARLEY-DAVIDSON Motor Company, making MECHANICS and PARTS MEN out of BUELL Riders since THURSDAY 15 OCTOBER 2009 !!!" | ||
| Richsm2 |
what is the radius dimension? | ||
| Richsm2 |
I found nylon washers at Lowes,take your caliper. | ||
| Daveswan |
The washers that fit perfect are #4 (number 4's) Big box stores usually only have down to #6. I got mine at a small local hardware store that sells everything. Though I didn't check on the nylon, they may have those in the right size per Rich's recommendation. I got brass #4's. At .050" which in my case were 2 brass number 4's the bike ran perfect and I didn't have to move up to a #48 jet. You may have a different experience though I can say shimming the needle made a huge difference. This tool may let you adjust the mixture while it's running. I didn't use it, I just waited until it cooled and moved the needle another 1/4 turn. http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0119 / I did drill the bottom of the slide to 7/64" which is a hair under 1/8". that's for a bit better throttle response. I came across a chart that shows the relationship of the needle taper, the slow jet, main jet across a range so you can see which works during a particular throttle setting. If I find it I'll post it! | ||
| Buellistic |
The QUICKER the Slide goes up and stays, which allows you to operate off the throttle butterfly and if you are on the "CAM"(power range(RPM's) of your cam)you better hold on !!! The higher your slide is, the less gas mileage you will get !!! | ||
| Daveswan |
Here's that graph!  | ||
| Buellistic |
Daveswan: Nice graph !!! Can not find mine ??? Mine shows it a little differently with every rise and fall off and on to the IDLE/WOT line with over laps ... | ||
| Scdobber |
Today I drove the bike some,after setting idle for a few minutes it pops when it is revved up,am I to rich on the slow jet to be stock or should I adjust the mixture? (Message edited by scdobber on November 15, 2009) | ||
| Buellistic |
Are your EXHAUST GASKETS good ??? You can check them a night when it get good and dark ... Rev it up and look closely for a exhaust leak between the heads and exhaust header ... If you have to replace the header gaskets, get GASKET,exhaust port PN 17048-98 ... DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING BUT PN 17048-98 !!! | ||
| Scdobber |
Yep,gaskets are good,pop is coming from the airbox but never did it till I went to a 45 and adjusting the mixture.The problem I aimed to correct "low speed surge & popping under 3000 are gone"The new issue only does it setting idle at a long traffic light and for a split second it pops when it is revved almost like it's loading up with fuel | ||
| Buellistic |
Are your EXHAUST GASKETS good ??? You can check them a night when it get good and dark ... Rev it up and look closely for a exhaust leak between the heads and exhaust header ... If you have to replace the header gaskets, get GASKET,exhaust port PN 17048-98 ... DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING BUT PN 17048-98 !!! | ||
| Daveswan |
Yeah, I liked that graph. I've seen a couple of others but this one seemed a little easier to understand the circuits. I'f you're on a 45 and the needle hasn't been shimmed It's not too rich yet. If you shimmed the needle and were on a 48 then I'd think you were getting rich. Mine essentially did a similar type of thing and popped until I shimmed the needle. When I cracked the throttle it was dull and I thought maybe it was rich from turning out the mixture screw, but I reasoned it couldn't be and I must be being fooled since I only had a 45 in there. It was smoother running and popping less but just was not right. After I shimmed the needle the popping went away. It was so close and I thought I needed to try the 48. I looked at that graph and determined that the shimming had a greater effect off idle for that transition than I thought. I left the 45, shimmed the needle and I haven't had any popping. Also crisp throttle response when cracked open. I read somewhere - here maybe, where someone used baking soda on the exhaust to check leaks? It doesn't hurt to check that, but I encourage the needle shimming regardless. | ||
| Scdobber |
I may have some model car shims if not there is a partial dynojet kit somewhere in my dads shop he had for his HD,I'll dig it up and see if it has some shims.I'll check again just to be sure it has no exhaust leaks | ||
| Scdobber |
Do I need to adjust the clip on the needle to another position or just add the shim? (Message edited by scdobber on November 15, 2009) | ||
| Richsm2 |
no clip | ||
| Richsm2 |
no clip | ||
| Daveswan |
Here's a nice step-by-step from an HD forum. Check it out for reassembly tips to help you get everything together and to see what it looks like before you pull it apart. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd_cv_mods.htm | ||
| Scdobber |
Great info Dave,After a short ride today here is a more detailed description.Short idles are fine but anything over 2 minutes causes a pop through the airbox and a few revs to clear it out.I went down a dirt road this morning,not far about a half mile very slow,as soon as I turned back onto blacktop it pops and cuts off in the highway,fire it up and it's fine. | ||
| Daveswan |
also make sure it's idle speed is high enough, around 1000-1050. Popping through the carb is too lean, if it backfires out the exhaust and hesitates or stumbles upon acceleration then it's too rich. Shim that needle...  | ||
| Scdobber |
Ok,I installed a .050" shim under the needle actually it was .048", No other adjustments made and the bike would not run,it would idle fine but as soon as I tried to take off it would load up,stumble, smoke and run like crap,a bit too much for mine on the shim. My first change on the bike was replacing the 42 slow jet with a 45 and 2.5 on the mixture,like I said it solved the hiccups and surge but after a short period of idle it would pop when revved with some light black smoke or cut off, so perhaps I went in the right direction,is it possible I went too much on the slow jet,I am working on a unmodified stock bike.I noticed as odd as it may sound I lost bottom/mid range power with the 45 slow jet,how I have no idea,after going back with the 42 I have my bottom/mid power back,although the hiccups are gone I still have the slow speed surge.So I'm back to square one with the only adjustments made is I'm 2.5 out on the mixture | ||
| Daveswan |
ohhh, an unmodified stock bike... Where did I miss that!? holy Crap... You have to undo everything! Or, change the exhaust and intake now  smoke is raw fuel... so now it's rich for sure. Have to take away that shim. I'm trying to retrace your footstep and right here: "pop is coming from the airbox but never did it till I went to a 45 and adjusting the mixture" . If it was fine with the #42, I'm thinking go back to that and play with the mixture screw from there. Since you changed the seals and the pilot jet - two things - perhaps there was a bit of a leak. I'm just guessing, but if the bike is completely stock you're going in the wrong direction - sorry about that. You might be able to to leave the #45 in but just turn the screw back in to lean the mixture at idle. When I bought my M2, the previous owner changed the intake and exhaust but left the carb completely stock -#42 and didn't shim the needle. The bike would not run at all unless the enricher was pulled all the way out which was ridiculous. Complete opposite problem... | ||
| Daveswan |
I went back and found your OLD post that preceded this and it sure says STOCK and I was there too! Seems, between there and here you were closer with changing to the #45 and finer adjustment could be made there. There was a loose bolt too that you tightened that might have contributed. You're going to know that CV inside out now. | ||
| Scdobber |
Dave,I though I'd wear the threads in the carb out today,if it wasn't for that shi**y airbox things would go alot smoother when working on it,no wonder people do away with them.Yep the bike is stock for now,I'll have good experience when I do some mods as far as exhaust which is in the near future.Yes the 45 did eliminate the hiccups & surge but left me rich at idle which you are correct I could have fine tuned the mixture with a bit more time.I have the 42 back in and I have access to the mixture screw which I may be able to adjust out some more to,if not I may get a 43 and go from there.No doubt I'm in the right direction (Message edited by scdobber on November 16, 2009) | ||
| Daveswan |
yep, I bet just being able to access that mixture screw you'll be able to get it right. And like you said, maybe one more size up. There's a lot of sh*t that's in that airbox. I just have the carbon fiber ham can with two screws and then the breather bolts that hold it and the carb in place. Until you actually get it right will all of those changes make sense. Even when I was pretty sure I was going the right way, until I finally dialed it in did I understand the differences in the small changes. I kept hoping it wasn't something else, especially since I picked up someone elses ham-fisted mechanic work. Not only am I trying to make it right, I'm re-straightening out old screw-ups. Though had it been right all along I wouldn't have gotten a good deal and I wanted a project and I'm getting to know this bike inside out which makes me feel more connected to it! | ||
| Scdobber |
I was lucky enough last week to speak with the 1st original owner after several hours on people searches on the web,he is a Doctor out of NC.I was interested in any work done ect...He stated he bought it in 05 after setting in the back of the dealership since 02 with under 10 miles on the clock,the Harley dealership's owner wanted to keep it seeing it was the last of the tube frame.In 05 he got it out of him after alot of begging,in 4 years doc only put 1100 miles on it and had regular servicing with no issues till the day he traded it,he said he had not drove it in over a month, fired it up and headed off to the interstate in route to a Yamaha dealership 50 miles from his home to purchase a new 1300 Yamaha with a big windsheld, after 20 miles he noticed what he called a sneeze "I call hiccup" and it continued several times on the trip and at the time of the trade in he told the dealer whatever it was just started and needed to be checked.I just thought about that conversation,if it was jetting he would have had the issue the entire 4 years he had the bike,he had no reason to lie because I bought it from a dealer & I'm the 2nd owner.So I don't think it was jetting.My 1st thought was a gummed up carb so I pulled it and cleaned it,drained the tank and put in new fuel which did not solve the hiccups which has led me to this forum and where I am today.I did ask the guy why he traded it,he said he loved the bike but he could not find a large windscreen that would fit or look right.Funny but he was riding the Buell and a car ahead him spit a huge glob of snuff that ended up in his face and all over his shirt,so I suppose that's a good enough reason to want a big windshield,plus he needed large saddle bags for his paperwork (Message edited by scdobber on November 16, 2009) |
