| Author | Message | ||
     Eshardball |
I have a front wave rotor on order and figured that I would break the allen heads loose ahead of time. I sprayed them with penetrating oil after unsuccessfully putting a 3/8 breaker bar w a 12" pipe on it to get them broke loose. I was striking the breaker bar with a hammer while I was bouncing on the breaker bar. I am afraid of stripping out the allen heads or messing up the finish on my front wheel by using heat. Suggestions from those that have replaced their front rotor are appreciated. | ||
| F_skinner |
I have always had to use heat and rap them a little with a hammer. They are put on with thread lock and are hard little suckers to get off. Even with heat I still used a breaker bar. | ||
| Sleez |
heat, hammer strike, remove! | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you're worried about stripping the allen head, when you hit it to break it loose, go tight. I know, sounds dumb. Going tight will wallow the head in the direction *opposite* of removing them, so you aren't screwed with a bolt that you can't get out. And...breaking locktite loose doesn't care which direction you go. Break it free, reverse your ratchet, then loosen away. | ||
| Cyclonemduece |
plus 2 sleez | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I had to use heat to do both the 96 and the 98. | ||
| Buellistic |
A simple hard wrap with a punch and hammer works for me ... Make sure you do not close the allen wrench hole !!! Use anti-size on the threads so you can get them out the next time ... | ||
| Sleez |
i would highly recommend against anti seize!!! these should be loctite'd, your life is on the line here. | ||
| Preybird1 |
The factory manual says that they have purple loc-tight on them and if i remember correctly any color above and including red must be heated to remove them. Blue or light green loc-tight are the two weakest. I think there is 5 colors - 5 strength levels. I'm not sure if re-using the bolts is wise, I swear i read somewhere that they should be replaced if removed BUT I MAY BE INCORRECT! | ||
| Buellistic |
Have always anti-size on just about everything on 1997 S3T that "i" have had apart on PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE or for repair ... If you "TORQUE" things properly loc-tight is not necessary ... There is a lot of stuff wrong, incorrect, or just plain "BUELLschitte" in FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS and technicians do not know the difference !!! On some things that you are not supposed to reuse certain BOLTS/NUTS, is again "BUELLschitte" !!! The TRUE bottom line is "ANTI-SIZE" and proper "TORQUE" !!! | ||
| Sleez |
a few million mechanical engineers would disagree. do what works for you. | ||
| Zenfrogmaster |
Heat and one of those hand held impact drivers worked on mine. Just a couple of whacks was all it took to break the bolts free. | ||
| Bicylindrico |
I had to have a machinist/welder remove mine after breaking/twisting allen sockets. He used a stick welder to heat the screw for about ten seconds before taking an allen wrench and pipe to remove. He commented the wheel itself was too much of a heat sink to get adequate heat into the screw with other means. Worked on all of them. His opinion was the tool size was too small for such a large shoulder on the screw. Made sense to me. | ||
| Hootowl |
I had to weld nuts on to some of mine too. Had to drill out one of them. Once the head came off, it backed right out. | ||
| Motorcyclemike |
I have used a product called "Kroil", you can go on line and find it. The stuff is amazing. a couple of squirts on the bolts, let it sit for a while and the usually come right out. | ||
| Kalali |
"The TRUE bottom line is "ANTI-SIZE" and proper "TORQUE" !!!" I would agree with this method if and only if you check and re-torque the bolts frequently. Otherwise too risky in this particular application. Just my mechanical engineering opinion. | ||
| Buellistic |
MURPHY'S LAW(one of many): If there is a possibility of it coming loose, "IT WILL" !!! Statement: The unknowing and technicians believe everything that is correct and the TRUTH is in FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS ... Definations(in relation to the product): Engineer: designs the product ... MECHANIC: Corrects the mistakes the engineer makes, ie: make it last longer, make it run better, take apart(it is as important how you take it apart as how you assemble engine)and assemble so it will stay together(what you really need to replace and what does not need to be replaced using proper ANTI-SIZE and TORQUE ... Proper TORQUE: If it will stay tight at min. torque spec. then there is no reason to torque tighter ... If not, then you up to move closer to max. torque ... If there is a problem of staying tight at max. torque, this is where safety wire comes in ... Still will not stay tight, the next step is one of the many loc-tight options ... Sometime you need to address why it will not stay tight(design/stress flaw) ??? ie: front motor mount braking, design a heavy duty one ... Front motor mount bolts breaking,grade 8 bolts and proper assembly ... | ||
| Oldog |
IIRC I used an Air impact to remove them no issues, I replaced the bolts last time. I am not so sure that I would do it now, as money is tight. I would bathe them in red loctite, and torque to spec, I would also watch them closely and if any issues came up THEN I would not hesitate to replace them all. my old ricer used HD bolts and locking tabs on the front disc take this seriously Lafayette, I THINK the reason that the bolts MAY NOT stay put, is related to heat and cool cycles and the forces acting on them, VS bad design. Like some things in this time the lawyers have won out here. remember when the TT was introduced it was one up ( no passenger pegs ), at the rear of the saddle in the cover was the big "NO" circle with 2 figures on the bike I laughed out loud when I saw it these bolts MAY be some of that.  +1 on Rat Buells suggestion (Message edited by oldog on January 29, 2009) | ||
| Buellistic |
Oldog: What actually happens is the HEAT BOILS away lub. substance in the anti-size and they they will get tighter on rotors ... The same thing happens to the front motor mount head bolts ... "i" remember when BIG TWINS were ran on real TT TRACKS ... | ||
| Jstfrfun |
Heat and hand held impact to remove, loc-tite to re-assemble. Don't try to remove without heat, the allen head is too small and WILL strip out! | ||
| Eshardball |
Thanks guys. I used a small Oxi/Acy torch to heat the heads up without heating up the rotor carrier. I usually coat everything in anti-seize except for engine studs, connecting rod bolts and brake rotor bolts that would seem to be begging for locktite. I can only imagine the forces acting on the front wheel as it rotates along at 100mph while striking bumps in the road. I also have a policy of not re using fasteners that required heat to be removed or fasteners like head bolts that are torque to yield. | ||
| Eshardball |
Ratbuell, good suggestion about breaking them loose in the opposite direction. I have no intention on re using the fastener nor can I since the wave rotor does not use a tapered head allen. I know the wheel and rotor carrier are giant heat sinks so I borrowed the micro torch from work that I use for silver braising in tight places. This way I heated only the fastener. Does anyone know if the OEM fastener is a grade 5 or grade 8? | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I believe it's higher than an 8, maybe an ISO 9.9? | ||
| Kalali |
"I also have a policy of not re using fasteners that required heat to be removed or fasteners like head bolts that are torque to yield." Excellent policy. My general approach is to put a little dab of anti-sieze just under the bolt head while using the loc-tite on the bolt shaft. I've had great results with this approach. | ||
| Buellistic |
Kalali: By you post(anti-size just under the screw/bolt head) some MECHANIC has been teaching you !!! | ||
| Kalali |
Exactly Buellistic...TECHNICIANS don't think that way... | ||
| Eshardball |
Ditto on the anti seize under the heads (liquid washer)so you get accurate torque readings | ||
| Skntpig |
http://www.mototuneusa.com/allen_bolt_nightmare.ht m I use new bolts each time I remove the rotor but have used the above trick before to remove them. | ||
| Buellfighter |
 Wave rotor and allen bolts w/ a drop of anti seize. | ||
| Eshardball |
You just sent that pic so we can drool over your front end! |
