| Author | Message | ||
     Torquemonster |
Posting here for more visibility than just the M2 folder... 2000 M2 Im installing the cf race air cleaner with a catch can, so what do I do with the main breather hole (where the main breather hose used to go into the backplate) on the backplate? Do I still need to run a hose to it? Plug it up? It also seems that gaskets were not included for mounting the bracket to the support plate (carb). Anyone got a part number for the gaskets? The breather bolts seem to be hitting the frame before theyre screwed in far enough. What am I doing wrong? Finally, the race kit doesnt seem to have a support included for where the muffler meets the collector. (looks like the D&D muffler and Y mount kit I just bought are useless now) Ive seen DIY saftey wire looms, but whats the official scoop? (Message edited by TORQUEMONSTER on March 02, 2008) (Message edited by TORQUEMONSTER on March 02, 2008) | ||
| Chasespeed |
as far as the air cleaner... just plug the hole... I have the banjo style bolts on mine, and everything clears just fine... For the gasket.. Get a gasket maker kit... end of story.. There is a "shoe" that mounts from the hanger, and attaches to the header with a clamp(also attaches muffler) Chase | ||
| Djkaplan |
You are missing (or don't recognize) some parts, it sounds like. If you don't have the SS welded shoe and SS clamp that supports the collector, call Al and he'll set you up. It should have been included in the race kit. The gaskets too! I used a hole plug (attached from the outside so it wouldn't get sucked in the engine if it came off) I got from Lowes. They are found in the fastener aisle and come in plastic and metal. Just seal it with silicone and it should work fine. I never used the breather bolts because I had XB rocker covers when I finally got my race kit, so no help there. Make sure to using the black painted steel carb support bracket that's held down by the breather bolts... some people think this part was only used to support the breadbox, but it also keeps the carb on the intake securely. Keep an eye on the race muffler. Most of the ones I see have rubbed against the shock while the bike was running. | ||
| Jayvee |
The Y mount kit should still be good. The collector shoe would hang from that, from what I understand. I can't find my parts book right now, but the JP Cycles web site should have the OEM part number for it. Those gaskets are fairly cheap, under $2 as I recall. | ||
| Torquemonster |
 Thanks fellas. DJ- Did your race kit include a new "black painted steel carb support bracket"? If so, did it have any kind of gasket attached to the mounting tabs for the breather holes in the head? see Fig. B When I took mine off there was a thick black film that appeared to be remains of disintegrated gaskets. see Fig. A  The parts book shows the bracket, but no gaskets for where the mounting tabs get bolted into the head. I went ahead and ordered a new bracket today in hopes that it has the gaskets, but just dont want to wait a week to find out. I know chase said gasket maker kit and I may very well do that, but curiosity forces me to ask "why". (Message edited by TORQUEMONSTER on March 03, 2008) | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Did your race kit include a new 'black painted steel carb support bracket'?" No, it did not. I reused my old one. I don't remember any replaceable gaskets for the breather holes in the carb hold down. The gaskets that sandwich between the carb/hold down/backing plate spacer should be easily available and cheap. Be careful with them, they have an adhesive backing that really sticks good... meaning get it close before you press it on. All that stuff should have been in the race kit, though. Did you call Al? (Message edited by djkaplan on March 03, 2008) | ||
| Djkaplan |
I've made a few gaskets out of necessity. Any autoparts store should have blanks you can cut patterns from, but it is always easier to just get the right gaskets if you can. | ||
| Torquemonster |
I emailed the sales dept. but im about to call. | ||
| Jayvee |
There's no gasket around the breather bolts, that's probably some thread-sealing goop that gushed out. I went to banjo-bolt breather bolts, now have copper washers on either side of the banjo bolt, but no gasket between the carb bracket and the head. Except for the thread-sealing goop that smooshes out. | ||
| Torquemonster |
alright. so...the issue I had with the breather bolts hitting the frame was a total brainfart. My father in law was helping, so Ill blame it on him. Ha. If I am understanding this....the stock breather bolts are replaced with the banjo bolts...Please forgive my ignorance. Err...my father in law's ignorance. yeah...thats the ticket! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yep, banjos in place of stock breather bolts. The gasket from bracket to carb and bracket to backing plate is a standard carb / airbox gasket for XL and Buell. We keep about seventy on the shelf (they also fit big twin carburetors, and I think some of the EFI throttlebodies, and most of the old Evo stuff, and pretty much anything that ever had a CV carb on it). They're cheap. Don't make what you don't have to...and if what the parts guy hands you looks close..it's right. There's nothing in that category that "almost" fits  +1 on using crush washers on the breather bolts. You can also use Hy-lo-mar, I've done that in a pinch, just coat the threads with it. | ||
| Torquemonster |
I think Ive got it......Sorry, sometimes its like pullin' teeth with me. Thanks for all the info, guys.  now to get my hands on some hylomar and crush washers. (Message edited by TORQUEMONSTER on March 03, 2008) | ||
| Ratbuell |
You can put the crush washers where you have the Hylomar and the "no gasket applicable" listed, instead of the hylomar. When you think about it, if you use hylomar the oil vapor will only be coming out thru the center of the banjos; the threads will be sealed so you won't need a crush washer or gasket on that plate. If you don't have a thread sealer, you'll need to seal the banjo against the plate to keep vapor from dripping down onto your cam cover. It's more of an either/or situation... | ||
| Jc000 |
alright. so...the issue I had with the breather bolts hitting the frame was a total brainfart. My father in law was helping, so Ill blame it on him. Ha. If I am understanding this....the stock breather bolts are replaced with the banjo bolts...Please forgive my ignorance. Err...my father in law's ignorance. Can you post a pic? I am having the same problem with the L-shaped kit bolts hitting the frame. Where/what are the banjo bolts? Let me know if you have other questions. I've just recently done this install myself on my M2. | ||
| Torquemonster |
Yeah, I can post one in the next day or two unless someone else beats me to it. "Replace the stock breather nipples with the fully rotating banjo bolts. Comes with T fitting and 3 feet of breather hose. Gain 2-4 HP by removing your breathers from your intake tract. Run short hoses to Tee below carb, run the single hose down, use breather filter or catch can." -from American Sport Bike Check em out here: http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/5623.html | ||
| Jackbequick |
Jc000, Here is a link to the way I diverted my breathers out of the air box when I first got my M2. You can see the breather bolts there. I also made some gaskets to get with the banjo bolts on the breathers. It just seemed like a good idea. http://users.adelphia.net/~jackerbes/Buell/breathe r.html You can see the banjo bolts in the first photo and they are in place in the second. I also wrapped the bolts with Teflon tape to seal them as I did not have the Hylomar sealant. It worked fine and did not leak. I made a point to not get the tape where it was hanging off inside the breathers by starting the wrap one or two threads back on the bolts. You don't want those breather bolts real tight, just down to a snug touch on the gaskets. I didn't have any problem with that setup for the two years I had it. Jack | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
Jack, Great idea using the filters as a visible catch can! I too fitted my banjo fittings pointing up rather than down. Mine simply go over the motor to the right side with no catch can fitted. I used clear braided hose so I could see if there was oil accumulation. So far, none. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Jackbequick |
I was warned that the up and over hoses would not work, the the stuff run back down and build up in the rocker boxes but none of the dire predictions ever came true. And the little filter would more than hold a season's accumulation of oil. My M2 was low mileage (got it at 2,100 miles, sold it at 6,600 miles) and I never had any problems with it discharging "splooge" or oil. Some of the guys that are running their engines real hard for longer periods of time or that have more blowby from higher mileage might not have had the same results I did. The thing that makes that gas filter work okay is the little piece of tubing stuck in from the bottom that acts like a standpipe so the collected oil won't blow out. I later changed to a different air cleaner to replace the bread box and the same breather setup worked with that too. Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
It's me that keeps saying a fuel filter won't work very well as a breather. It didn't work for me at all. As soon as the spooge hits the filter media, the emulsified oil and water mixture clogs it up to point where it won't let air through very easily, especially when it gets cold outside and the spooge has the consistency of an oily paste. You can keep giving advice to use one, but I'm going to keep saying it didn't work at all for me. It might work for awhile, but it's not an efficient replacement for a properly designed catch-can with an open mesh oil mist separator and stand off vent. You don't have to spend very much money to fab a proper catch-can. I suggest perusing the Breather section in the Knowledge Vault. There are lots of low and no buck approaches shown quite well in there. | ||
| Torquemonster |
"There are lots of low and no buck approaches shown quite well in there." +1 There are also some very cool ideas in the thread. Kinda makes me wish I didnt spend $100 plus on a fancy schmancy billet catch can. Dont know why i did in the first place. Im not a fan of "bling". I may put it up for sale here... The "Milwaukee's Best" catch can is one of my faves. | ||
| Jc000 |
I have to say I'm very disappointed in my catch can set up. I posted about this in the KV, didn't get much response. I got one of those Golan catch cans (http://www.golanproducts.com/breathers.html) which seems to immediately spray goo all over. Having a better handle on the whole catch can thing, I am still toying with the idea of fabbing something, but I'd just as soon buy a bare bones aluminum tank that would just work as needed. | ||
| Aesquire |
My catch can cost 5 cents, after I drank the soda inside. Some may think it cheap & cheezy, but a 20 oz. soda bottle, cut to fit the hose(s), with a bit of foam in the neck ( optional ) tie wrapped to the battery bracket, works for me. You can see it in my profile pic. That season it was Cherry Coke. Last year it was Game Fuel Mt. Dew. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Okay... MY take... I have the catch can/breather from American Sport Bike... its not cheap..BUT, worth every penny... I have my crankcase, AND transmission breathers routed to that.... Even before the top end rebuild, and while I had a bad crank seal... it didnt fill too often, and it would foam out the breather indicating time to drain it... Ideal? Maybe not.. BUT, I had a bad crankseal at the time, and no working cager, so it was much more favorable than puking gear oil all over my rear tire... So... its a nice unit, and if set up right.. you shouldnt have a problem, only time you will drain it often, is in heavy humidity/humid climates... as the oil gets hot, adn purges the steam/oil vapors out the breathers, it will condense and collect in teh catch can... it will be nice and milky when you drain it... My 2 cents Chase | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..You can keep giving advice to use one, but I'm going to keep saying it didn't work at all for me..." I'm fine with that. But you could lighten up a little. The difference between "It will not work" and "It did not work for me" is two different things. I posted that link because Jon asked for a photo. And in the link I was telling people what I did and how it worked for me. But I'm not wrong or lying. It worked. Not one tiny little fragment of any of the stuff that you describe ever happened to me. None of it. Ever. I'm honest enough that when I have an idea that turns out bad, I come back and tell people about it. I have a very similar one on my Dyna and it has worked just as well. Jack | ||
| Aesquire |
The difference between Jackbequick's & my setup with the bread box is, I used the stock front breather bolt & routed the hose back out the hole in the box. Then up & Over to a can. Some bikes really hate to get spooge accumulated in the hose(s) & will burp. Mine doesn't seem to care, I get a couple of tablespoons of milky fluid in a month. The Important part is to NOT block the breathers. No kinks, etc. That might blow seals you don't want to replace. Some bikes are happy with a filter, I like to catch the spooge & see what I got. (Message edited by aesquire on March 08, 2008) | ||
| Djkaplan |
Sorry Jack - I think it's bad gouge. I tried it twice with two different fuel filters quite a few years ago and they both clogged with emulisfied spooge. But that is just my observation based on my own experiences. If your experience was different, that still doesn't change mine. And vice-versa, of course. I'm not sure what more I can do to lighten up except to just shut up... I'm not doing that. | ||
| Jc000 |
Hey Jack, I appreciate the info and photos... I had seen your setup before, my concern with it was (environmentally speaking) the possibility of draining to the ground... which maybe doesn't happen with your setup. Anyway it's all food for thought. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Naw, DJ. I don't want you to shut up. You know much and share it freely and that's a good thing. Please don't read any anger into what I said as none was meant. I simply didn't think it is right to say that is does not work. There are many different ways to catch the discharge and the amount of that seems to vary from one bike to another. You mentioned in another thread about having more discharge when your oil levels were higher and your blow by issues may have been more than mine too. Who knows. I put that concept together out of bits and pieces found locally after cleaning out severly oiled up air box on my newly acquired used M2. I thought it was a temporary fix until I could find a catch tank. But it continued to work, then the lazy cheapskate in me kicked in and turned it all into a long term arrangement. Jcooo, I don't a think any catch tank method discharges pure clean air without any traces of atomized oil in it. For the record, the outlet hose from my filter hung down about two inches below the frame. That tubing would have a light coating of oil on the inside so there was some oil mist in the air that came out. I later extended the outlet tube two more inches or so and moved it over against the lower frame tube using a cable tie. Don't pinch the tube shut though or you'll vent oil (from the gearcase area vent) at the tube up under the rear of the seat pan after running at sustained speeds for a while. I would occasionally find one drop beneath the outlet tube on the garage floor where I parked. After several hundred miles of riding, there would be a light accumulation of dirt, tire compound, etc., to the rear of the outlet tube, at the rear of the muffler, on the kickstand, and to the rear. That all washed off easily during my normal wash the bike evolutions. It was kind of like the stuff seen along crankcase joints, under the oil filter, etc. I've not found that Buell or my Dyna to devoid of exterior oil buildup and dirt. But neither of them needed a drip pan for parking nor did I consider them to be environmental violaters of any order. Jack | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I simply didn't think it is right to say that is does not work." I agree, Jack. But I never said yours didn't work. I said mine didn't work. And it's entirely right for me to say it didn't work... if it didn't work. I accept this impasse between us. |
