| Author | Message | ||
     Vansonbones |
I checked the Tech archive first, but was not clear on it: I have a 2000 X1 Lightning I am confused on whether I have two transmission fluids or one. My buddy say his harley has a separate fluid for the transmission and primary drive. Can I get the fluid(s) at Autozone? Is this motor and transmission setup on a particular Harley also? If so, which one? Will low transmission fluid trigger the engine light? | ||
| Rde48 |
You have 2 oils, engine and primary/trans. Although you can get oil at Auto zone make sure you are getting the correct oil or just get it at the HD dealer. The Sportster uses the same base motor as your x1. No low trans oil will not trigger the engine light. | ||
| Vansonbones |
The dealer said I could use SYN3 20/50 in both. Autozone does not carry SYN3. Is that just a fully synthetic motor oil? Or is it specifically for bikes? What is comparable at an auto parts store? | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
Not really worth it to buy an auto parts store equivalent .. I don;t know that there even is one .. These bikes are a bit picky when it comes to what oil's are being used (the stator can be really picky as well) ... stick with the Harley Syn3 oil for the engine .. and the recommended oil for the primary is Redline MTL fluid - both should be available at your local HD dealer... (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on October 15, 2007) | ||
| Dfbutler |
I use Amsoil 20/50 in both engine and primary. Amsoil was the original producer of synthetic oil (http://www.amsoil.com/) and I've have been very happy. The transmission shifts much smoother and the engine seems to use less oil. You het longer change interval too. | ||
| Vansonbones |
Am I correct in thinking that the motor oil does not need to be motorcycle specific as it does not share with the clutch. The Trans/pri oil needs to be motorcycle specific. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The alternator lives in the primary with the tranny fluid. You have to be very careful not to use things that will damage wiring. the engine side is not so picky. I always used normal cheapo castrol 20-50 I use H-D filters since they cost the same as the equivalent from autozone. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The engine side does need to have oil made for air (and OIL, remember) cooled engines. For the pennies a quart, it's worth my money to use HD fluids in my bikes. I run Syn3 in both Buells, engine and primary, and no problems at all. I run dino oil in the FLHP, but may change it over at some point. | ||
| Fasted |
if you ever need your buell dealer for anything, it might be good for them to recognize you.... buy filters, oil, and other stuff from them. it might be a good investment | ||
| Warlizard |
You will want to use "Sport-Trans" in the tranny. DO NOT USE synthetic. It is too thin. | ||
| Rick_a |
Sport-Trans has been long phased out. It's now Formula-Plus. I agree with the above. My primary seems to prefer it. My motor has always had some form of Synthetic or Semi-Synthetic in it. | ||
| Sloppy |
Synthetics are "too thin"????? Synthetics are some of the BEST oils you can use and everyone that uses them highly recommend them. Let's end the debate and it will be very simple -- use whatever oil the oil manufacturer recommends. HD - Syn 3 in engine or tranny, Sportrans or Formula + in tranny. Mobil1 - Use engine oil in engine and tranny Redline - Use engine oil in engine and tranny OR use one of their tranny oils in the tranny (MTL, Shockproof, etc). Amsoil - Use engine oil in the engine and tranny. If you like Autozone, you can make this selection VERY simple. Use Mobil 1, 15w-50 in both the tranny AND engine. This oil is rated for both as an engine oil and a GL-4 gear oil. Motorcycle specific oil is not required for your X1 -- these motorcycle oils are designed for engines that require special JASO FC and MA ratings. The key is to use the correct API and vis. rating as recommended in the manual for the engine oil. The tranny recommendations are vague so check with the oil manufacturer in case you want to try something different. REMEMBER: IF YOU WANT TO EXPERIMENT FIRST CHECK WITH THE OIL MANUFACTURER! | ||
| Iamike |
As I mentioned in another thread on this topic: I've been using Mobil 1 15W50 in my primary from very early on in the life of my '99 S3. I have since gone past 63,000mi. I did lose a stator back in the mid 30k range but it exhibited the failure at the clamp symptom. Did I mention that I have hardly adjusted the primary in the life of the bike? Never had a problem with the clutch slipping either. | ||
| Buellistic |
You can run DEXTRON V in your transmission ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Oldog |
Watch the oil going into the tranny / chain case, IF the oil has anti varnish additives, it may attack the stator, certain EP additives have been shown to be detrimental to the stator varnish / wire. YMMV .. HD synth in the engine, sport trans / formula + some issues with the clutch / box / seal MOCO says synth is ok in box your call. | ||
| Warlizard |
Sloppy - if you use what the manufacturer recommends it w/ be Sport-Trans. It has very unique properties, that you will not find in anything else. There is a good article on it at the X-1 Files. They do have a newer version called Formula Plus. My dealership still carries Sport-Trans, got some 2 weeks ago. Until Buell recommends something else, I will continue to use it. BTW my tranny runs and shifts excellent, very smooth. I have never heard any complaints/problems arising fron Sport-Trans usage and there have been some issues w/ syns ( i.e. stators ). Basically, if it ain't broke.....Finally, YES synthetics can be too thin for certain applications. Did I mention that it is considerably cheaper? (Message edited by warlizard on October 18, 2007) | ||
| Warlizard |
Actually, I wasn't totally accurate in previous post. Buell doesn't recommend Sport-Trans it INSISTS on it. Page 96 of owners manual. It doesn't insist on any particular engine oil though, any brand will do provided it meets chemical/weight requirements. Meaning they aren't just pushing their own products. That should answer any questions.I don't claim to know more than Buell, so I will take their advice. Since I have the exact same year/model as Vanson - this applies directly to his bike as well. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Finally, YES synthetics can be too thin for certain applications. Sorry but that statement is inaccurate. Nothing wrong with staying with what the manufacturer recommends, but let's stay with the facts..... Also, unless you (warlizard) can provide a post showing otherwise, it has ONLY been GEAR oils that may be linked to problems with the stators, not motor oil which you can run in the trans. I followed those threads very closely before deciding what to use in my bike. I am not telling or even suggesting to anybody what they should run in their engine or trans, if you ask what I run, it is Mobil 1 20w-50 v-twin full synthetic in both. I drag race my bike, including hard launches and clutchless upshifts and have not had a problem in 10k miles, but if you are unsure then there is nothing wrong with warlizards recommendation. | ||
| Warlizard |
Has there been ANY problem related to Sport-Trans? Again, Buell doesn't recommend it, it mandates it - hence the phrase " use ONLY Sport-Trans" - straight from the manual. It has very unique properties and is actually a form of hydraulic fluid, nothing else like it. You said you "can" use motor oil. This is correct, I w/ rather use what I SHOULD be using, not what I CAN use. I imagine salad oil w/ work in a pinch to get you home. I have been around motors/machinery my whole life and have never seen any manufacturer recommend the same oil in both motor and trans. They are ALWAYS different. There is no documentation stating that ANYTHING works better than Sport-Trans, so I will listen to Buell and not try to reinvent the wheel. It works the best and it's the cheapest and it's readily available at all dealerships. I believe in sticking w/ the facts also, the only fact I care about is that Buell says to only use ST. I am not recommending anything, since I am no chemist or oil specialist, just relaying what Buell mandates. I noticed you said you watched threads to see what to use? Don't trust the manual? Did you have issues from Sport Trans? Sounds like you changed just to change, or maybe you like the extra cost? | ||
| Sloppy |
My post suggestion is to go with what the OIL MANUFACTURER recommends, not the bike mfg. Look, HD is NOT in the lubrication business. Talk to an OIL expert to find out what to use. HD also says to use THEIR motor oil, yet we all use someone elses. Also synthetic oils DO NOT eat the stators (I thought I heard it all but that's a new one!!!). The problem is with some brands of GL-5 GEAR OILS. Again, CHECK WITH THE OIL MANUFACTURER! No, Sporttrans does NOT work best -- synthetics work better. I have no problems with anyone using their favorite brand of oil -- I do have problems with people who say their favorite brand of oil is the only one to use and to avoid all others by spreading misinformation... that's what socialist liberals do ;) BTW, MOST motorcycle engines use the SAME MOTOR OIL FOR THEIR GEAR OIL... as recommended by the bike mfg. AND the oil mfg. And guess what -- HD does recommend SYN 3 in both the ENGINE AND THE TRANNY! | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Relax Warlizard, I clearly said: "Nothing wrong with staying with what the manufacturer recommends....." and: "I am not telling or even suggesting to anybody what they should run in their engine or trans, if you ask what I run, it is Mobil 1 20w-50 v-twin full synthetic in both." and again: "if you are unsure then there is nothing wrong with warlizards recommendation." But I am going to call you and say you are completely wrong when you say something as silly as: "DO NOT USE synthetic. It is too thin." and: "there have been some issues w/ syns ( i.e. stators )." As I pointed out, (unless you have evidence to the contrary) this problem was only possibly linked to gear oil. So we agree not to use gear oil! as far as: "Has there been ANY problem related to Sport-Trans?" When did I say not to use it or that there were problems with it? Moot point. and: "You said you "can" use motor oil." Where did I say that? I said what I use, you can use whatever you like including salad oil. finally you said: "maybe you like the extra cost?" I don't have to worry about profit margin when selecting fluids nor do I feel compelled to only buy products based on what is cheapest or what the manufacturer sells (do you think that every single component on your bike is the absolute best that money could ever buy? Do you put Motorcraft oil in your Ford?). I also do not expect the manufacturer who already supplies a product to go out and test every option on the market for one that is better. So to me, it is worth every penny and pennies are what we are talking about. If it isn't to you that is fine dude - really it is! You offered your advice and it is sound with noted exceptions. I noted the exceptions and stated what I use - not my advice. Why not let it go and let everyone decide for themselves without taking it personally ok? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Hey I would of beat you to it Sloppy but I spent too much time re-writing! | ||
| Warlizard |
Misinformation? I quoted the Buell owners manual. They don't specify a motor oil yet insist on Sport-Trans. I find that odd. Buell has a toll free number that you can use to accuse them of misinformation. I don't recommend anything as far as oil. I am not a chemist or an "oil expert". H-D is in the lubrication business by default. I am sure they just don't throw a dart at a board and insist on it. Are you implying that Chevy,BMW,Honda etc have no clue about oils? You listen to the vehicle company not an oil maker. I guess an oil expert would say that hydraulic fluid is the same as motor oil? What documentation do you have stating syn is better for tranny? I ran syn3 in my '05 sporty and it shifted like crap. When I switched back it ran fine. An oil manufacturer is going to suggest their product like any business. Again , I will listen to Buell long b4 I listen to you. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
"H-D is in the lubrication business by default." "An oil manufacturer is going to suggest their product like any business." 'nuff said...... | ||
| Warlizard |
Guys I threw away owners manual. After all what does Buell know. I can't believe I bought their bike in the first place! Soon as I can I will buy a bike made by Penzoil. They w/ surely know what oil to use. Then when I need spark plugs I will sell it for a Champion bike. I get it. Thanx for valuable help. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Since Buell knows everything why is the method for adjusting the primary chain and drive belt wrong in the manual? Why did I have to install an improved primary chain tensioner and improved oil pump drive gear in my 99? Why does the motor have paper gaskets? Have you replaced your paper gaskets with paper gaskets? | ||
| Warlizard |
That's your comeback? very weak. Obviously you don't read the service bulletins. Those topics have all been addressed w/ updated parts/procedures. The shock has also been recalled. Your point is??? I have yet to see a bulletin regarding fluid change. Apparently you have - if you could post it for us - it w/ give you some credibility. If you don't trust Buell why did you buy their bike? | ||
| Sloppy |
Everybody: Get educated then decide. If you want to follow the owners manual, then fine. If you want to do better than the owners manual then do a little research. Up to you. It's all good. Just don't spread mis-information... like: Synthetics are too slippery. Synthetics will eat your stator. No one uses the same oil for engine and gearbox. HD only recommends Sport Trans. Sport Trans is best. BTW, that X-1 file about the Sport Trans fluid came from me -- I had it analyzed about 5 years ago by a tribologist at Behnke Labs. Since that time I've done even more research (I got educated) and switched to Mobil 1 as it is a better choice for my applications and it does surpass Sportrans in performance. And guess what -- there are EVEN BETTER oils out there than Mobil 1, but I don't use them for a number of reasons while others do -- and that's all right. So it's all good. Use what you want, as long as people are educated in their decision... | ||
| Buellistic |
There are ERRORS in all FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS and a MECHANICS pick up on the wrong ones right away because of EXPERANCE !!! Ran(engine and transmission) H-D dyno 20W-50 the first 60K and SYN 3 20W-50 to the last ride of 99,574.3 miles ... My "TOP-END" has never been off(97S3T) !!! The Energizer DRUM is still beating and the Timex watch is still ticking !!! In BUELLing LaFayette If you adjusted the primary chain too tight the -90 chain tensioner would break ... THE WAY YOU TELL YOU ARE ADJUSTING YOUR PRIMARY CHAIN "TOO TIGHT" IS THE CHAIN WEARS DEEPLY INTO THE PLASTIC !!! (Message edited by buellistic on October 18, 2007) | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
One thing to remember ... what is recommended in an owner's manual or service manual on a 5-10 year old bike may not be what is recommended now .. (how many times have torque values gone up for the main crank nut .. in the tuber service manual it was 185 ft/lbs .. it is now recommended to be IIRC 225 ft/lbs .. and the bolts going into the front head from the motor mount - that torque has actually gone down) ... things can and do change, often .. As far as oil's - Syn3 is the recommended oil .. and the latest recommendation for gear oil is the Redline MTL ... used to be the Redline Lightweight Shockproof gear oil .. not any longer .. But use what you feel works best for you ... (Message edited by tattoodnscrewd on October 18, 2007) |
