| Author | Message | ||
     Sshbsn |
I had an XB12R for a while which I loved, then sold in a fit of stupidity... I've never ridden a tuber, but for many years have lusted over pics of S1s. M2s seem more practical, while X1s seem, well, third on my list. I probably won't get to test ride any of them before making a decision, so I turn to the mighty BadWeb for guidance. I've already read the archives and understand what each bike is meant to offer--kind of. Comfort, at least after my last sport bike (955i), won't be an issue with any of these. Except for a cross-country trip in a few weeks, most all of my riding consists of 200-300 mile solo Saturdays on Florida back roads. So my questions: * Equal fuel range, mpg, reliability/ease of roadside repair between the three models? * Equal build quality? * Is living with an S1 as my only bike much like planning on living with a partying porn star? * And is the M2 more like Mary Ann than Ginger, but in a good way? * Does the X1 really need all that big plastic stuff (I haven't seen any for sale that have it removed)? Thank you for helping with this! I'm a little confused, having no experience around these bikes. Except for the white S1 I saw eight years ago that continues to haunt me... Steve | ||
| Rick_a |
Later M2's (like around '00 and up) tend to be really well sorted. The riding position is more relaxed, footpegs are way too low for serious cornering, and then there's the forks. To some people a conventional fork is an abomination on any bike...I think to most people it wouldn't make a difference. It uses stock Sportster cams and (in stock form) has the most useable torque but the least horsepower. The best things about the '99 later Buells is the added frame brace, the added frame tie-link, the improved exhaust routing, and more consistent quality control. '00 later models got a few motor upgrades that make them even better. With the X1's you get more weight, a wider bike, and a quicker steering geometry (by a degree and a half). Then there's the FI...don't mind the occasional trip to the dealer (every 10K) for a TPS adjustment? Don't mind finding a way to remap after performance mods? Don't mind taking it to the dealer for a trouble code that pops up? Perfect, then. As a bonus it is a lot simpler (mechanically) than a carb and works at any elevation (good for those long trips or rides up the mountains). Buells of the S1's vintage often had spotty build quality and are often plagued by them throughout their lives. You'd want to make sure it's up to date on all the recalls and product updates. Aside from that they are by far the funnest and most entertaining to ride, yet a bit of torture to ride long distance. With Thunderstorm heads (S1W or upgrading a standard S1 to XB heads) they are a riot. When I had to decide I had a really hard time, as I was comparing the same models you mentioned. But I soon realized: If I bought an M2 I'd slowly turn it into an S1...forks, tailsection, tank, rearsets, instruments, flyscreen, etc. If I bought an X1 I'd ditch the FI and stock tailsection/tank and turn it into an S1. If I bought an S1 I would just have to upgrade several components to that of never spec models. It was the bike I could live with best as is. I'm sure there will be a lot more added, but these are the factors I pondered over years ago. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
try a S2.... JT | ||
| David_e |
I had an S-1 in 97 and I would still have it today if not for a divorce. they have the look and sound. it's a 2 wheeled gut rattling hot rod. It's an S-1. It's just a fun bike. I'd go with the S-1 for sure. I have a Uly now but I think about the S-1 a lot. | ||
| Buellfighter |
I bought my 96 S1 6 yrs ago because I saw it and thought, "holy crap, I gotta have that"! Isolaters, spark plugs and a battery later I still look at it and say "holy crap, I get to have that"! | ||
| Ratbuell |
Bought a 99 M2 new. Tons of fun, but "not quite right". Lusted after the 98 S1W since it came out but couldn't afford/rationalize one. Bought a 97 S1 for the ex, lusted after it and rode it every chance I got (she managed to escape with it, grr). Bought an FLHP in 2003 to pair with the M2. Sold the M2 because of too many "driving awards", kept the FLHP, became a better rider. Fast forward to 2006, found a mint S1W with 1100 miles on it and haven't looked back. Engine? Check. Fuel tank? check. 2 wheels, good brakes, check. Oh, and let's put an excuse for a seat off the backside just to be safe  I LOVE it. Think more Musclecar than Ferrari - crude, rough around the edges, but gawd-DAMN what a hoot and when it's all said and done, it gets the job done. Now...all I want to do is find some cash (either selling the FLHP or my Spirit R/T) so I can get an S3T. The S1W has spoiled me; now the FLHP bores me and I want a Buell "bagger". <sigh> M2 - slightly more ponderous handling from the "normal" forks. Bigger seat. Less aggressive riding position - more cruiser than corner-carver. Later (99-up) had big tanks and T-storm heads, which is a good thing. A great bike, lots of fun...but less razor sharp. X1 - yes, lots of plastic. Check americansportbike.com for alternatives. X1 is one of the only tubers with an available "undertail" accessory to smooth it out and make it look more modern. EFI? Tune it right, respect it, and keep the TPS set properly, you'll be fine. Again, asb.com has a tuner (Al is working on verifying it works not only with XB software but also with DDFI systems) called DirectLink that allows you to custom-map the EFI. Good stuff. Good forks, good ergos, nice looks, lots of them have the PM wheels stock. Basically when it comes to tubers (at least post-'99 models) it's all about aesthetics and "what do you like". To get a feel for them, go ride an XB12Ss. In my opinion, it's about as dead-nuts a match for my S1W's handling as any "modern" bike. Ergos are similar (I'm 6'4") and the turn-in, etc. are just about the same... | ||
| Captainkirk |
Bought a '99 M2 used. I found it just a tad too civilized, so I bit the bullet and did the full race kit along with Andrews N8 cams and the Mikuni HSR42. I now have a totally different animal with no manners whatsoever. (but man, is it fun!) | ||
| Firemanjim |
Rick,I beg to differ on this qoute" Buells of the S1's vintage often had spotty build quality and are often plagued by them throughout their lives." It was not until the poor X-1 that the build quality went in the toilet. Most all the earlier bikes only had a few problems--if any--crappy paper gaskets and such. But the X-1 was plagued with a plethora of big problems,FI glitches,exhaust systems disintegrating,broken studs--- And the S-1 is sorta like dating a coke sniffing stripper--- hold on,but what a ride. | ||
| Rick_a |
I'd disagree. '99 X1's are a totally different animal, it was the first year of that platform, and with Buell that can be expected. Most S1's I come across tend to not have a whole lot of miles racked up. I think that makes all the difference. Most guys I know with high-mileage early tubers (pre-Thunderstorm) have had a laundry list of issues. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
And the S-1 is sorta like dating a coke sniffing stripper--- hold on,but what a ride LMFAO !!! | ||
| Sshbsn |
Thank you for all of the insight! I'm selling the '07 Super Glide cheap and fast (hopefully), so maybe two weeks from now I'll have a tuber to call my own. The X1 got dropped from the list; between the FI and plastic, it just isn't the type of machine I'm looking for. I keep thinking I'll get the M2, it's so versatile. Maybe even put CityX type tires on it and try a few well-kept shell roads down here. The later model, with the larger fuel tank (thanks Ratbuell), would be a great exploration bike. It may not handle as well as the S1, but we don't really have a ton of curvy roads down here anyway. Yep, the M2 is the logical choice. And then I look again at pics of the S1! I am powerless against it!!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm pretty sure you can put an S1 solo tail on an M2....IIRC the frame rails are the same, or same-enough to be able to make it work. | ||
| Sanchez |
If you buy a tuber expecting an XB that just looks a little different, you'll be disappointed. They really are different bikes. I recommend doing some test riding before you make any decision. | ||
| Cereal |
I have an XB9R and a 96 S1. I kept telling myself that I would sell the S1 if I needed the money, but thankfully I haven't had too. Not sure if I even could. It has actually been more reliable than my XB. There are some 30 mph twisties near my place and I rode them both back to back to compare the handling. The XB is the winner hands down in that department. You really have to know your line and push the tuber into the turn while the XB just dives right in with not much effort. The S1 does have longer range though, especially if you get the manta tank. So it just depends on what you are looking for. Ride one and formulate your own opinion, because it is the only one that matters. As for my opinion, and I'm sure I will get fragged for this, the S1 is the only tuber I find aesthetically pleasing. | ||
| Rick_a |
The upper tail section rails would have to be shortened. I also agree 100% with the above. | ||
| M2nc |
I have a Uly and the M2. The M2 will not handle as well as the Firebolt. The one thing I can say is the M2 is predictable in a good way. It is very forgiving. The Uly handles better and on the top end has more grunt even though the M2 has better top end (aerodynamics I believe). Also with the XB12---, Buell tried to get the bottom end grunt of the M2 with the topend power of an X1 with the exhaust. It has an electronic feel to it. Bottom end grunt and throttle response is actually better on the M2 than the Uly. The best comparison of the M2 would be if your FDX & XB had an off spring, the M2 would be pretty close. (Message edited by M2nc on April 15, 2007) | ||
| Oldog |
Ssh: On your X1 question The plastic comes off with no problems, Al has the CF/FiberGlass trim to cover the fuell cell( in the tank bottom ( not a requirement though ) Add an intake of your choice and your set. { consider this a must do change as the stock air box lets dirt into the engine. ) having never ridden an S1/S2/M2/S3 I cant comment. The X1 is "mildly" cammed from the factory and responds nicely to inlet AND exhaust changes that free up its breathing BTW like the S2 the X1 has a removable side plate built into the frame to ease rear iso / belt drive service issues. the EFI is not to bad once a Race ECM is installed. The EFI adds a little complexity to things they are easier ( the tubers as a whole ) then the XB bikes to work on, AS I understand it the XB bikes don't need much attention they are sorta GTO A tube frame bike will need more attention. If you enjoy the wrenching end of things it may be a good way to go. YMMV | ||
| Oldog |
It was not until the poor X-1 that the build quality went in the toilet. Most all the earlier bikes only had a few problems--if any--crappy paper gaskets and such. But the X-1 was plagued with a plethora of big problems,FI glitches,exhaust systems disintegrating,broken studs--- Huhhh?  My main issues have been related to brakes, and the EFI , the first thing that should be done to an X1 is remove the suit case air cleaner housing. and get a better inlet setup. I changed the exhaust [ super trapp ] and got a race computer problem solved. Wheel bearings Key switch and other items brakes included would be similar on other bikes fitted with these items, the X1 seems to be the red headed step child of the Buell family.. | ||
| Sshbsn |
It's funny, my first Buell was SUPPOSED to be a used yellow X1 a few years back at the Harley dealer. They didn't want to finance it, but did offer a great deal on a new XB12R. The X1 appeared stock except for a corbin seat. I wish I would have test ridden it when I had the chance. D'oh! I don't expect a tuber to be an XB. The new bikes are wonderful, in fact nearly perfect for what they are. But it occurred to me that we don't really have corners to "own" down here. Added to that, the XBs, at least mine for 12000 miles, are fairly maintenance-free, and don't transfer much of the crude mechanical aura that keeps me addicted to things like old Triumphs and Alfas. A tuber seems to be the type of bike I'm looking for, maybe a little primitive by today's standards, but very fun and rewarding to own. If they need work sometimes, it's alright. I don't think they handle anything like my Firebolt did, but not much does. I just want to head out into the countryside for 8-10 hours each Saturday, smell the orange blossoms, ride some of the scarce and secret curvy roads spread around the state and connected by long straight pieces of highway, and then make it back home with minimal repairs along the way, kind of like my TR6. My days of extremely high speeds on public roads are behind me, so wind protection isn't even an issue. The S1, M2, and X1 all seem to have something unique and desirable to offer, and each has its fans in here. What a terrific motorcycle company, to have made so many ground-breaking and enjoyable bikes in so few years of existence. How can you help but be a huge fan of Erik Buell? When it's time to buy, I'll look for the impractical but lustful S1 first. If none are available in Florida, I'll go after an M2. If still no go, I'll take an X1. Surely I won't strike out on all three, but I will be under a time limit--I have to leave for Oklahoma pretty soon on a vacation I've waited eight years to take, and I will be riding a Buell to get there! Thank you everybody for taking your time to answer my questions and to offer insight and opinions. This is the best motorcycle site on the web, which is why I still check in even though I sold the 'bolt over two years ago. Steve | ||
| Nevrenuf |
in general, all tubers are great. although i have never ridden an x1 or an s2-3, the s1 that i rode was fun for short distance but i would never have done long on it. i have on the other hand put on 3100 in a week a number of years ago. depending on how old you are and what kind of shape your body is in(legs and hips in general)is what i would consider before buying a bike also. i wished i had a chance to ride the other 2 to see what i was missing. my opinion from i have seen is x1 and s1 is very agressive,m2 goes either way better and s2-3 is cross country and back while having fun. i have test rode a uly and test rode a tt doday and i think for long distance riding and the way i have seen them handle(except m2nc's little adventure two weeks ago) they are a phenominal bike. but if you want a tuber, i stayed up with quite a few of those guys on xb's up there at march badness on my m2. check the profile, that was from up there. there is a 02m2 up in bradenton for sale. if you get a hold of liquorwhere, he can fill you in on the details. the only thing is the guy who's selling it wants to much because he still owes on it. i would talk him down to 4k and you would have a nice bike. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Ill take an X1 over the rest, then the XBss long. FI problems? eh not here, other than TPS reset, O2 sensor r and r and really thats maintenance. Stock brake pads do kinda suck, they leave crap on the rotor. All X1 need to use the 2006 XB belt too and run it loose. | ||
| Rocketman |
We read about the handling characteristics of bikes all of the time, and we read about the handling prowess of the XB's often, frequently, all of the time. But the thing is this. If I ride my S1W as fun as I did today, I'm not sure I'd have fared any better on any other Buell. Not even an XB. I was out for a burn on my own this afternoon, on the B1248 Beverley to Malton road. A veritable biking paradise of a road if ever there was one. At times I caught myself doing upto and over the ton and thinking I was doing like 70. Yeah I gave her the odd blip to 120 and beyond too. The road was very quiet mid afternoon whilst heading outbound, and the B1248 with its fantastic long sweepers and tighter fast flick-able left and rights, and the elevation changes, positively inspire confidence to the skilled rider wishing to push on just a tad more. Funny thing is. Whilst my mind was wondering along in thought, I found myself wondering how I'd be getting on if I were on an XB. I no not why that thought crossed my mind, but it did. The thought didn't last long. I realised I was actually enjoying my riding, and really enjoying my S1W. This been only the second ride out of the year, and my first in my own company, I was able to go along at my own pace and savour the enjoyment of riding my own ride. The road felt good though a little worse for ware after the winter spell. The S1W felt good, though a little crude and bone shaky as usual. I know a Brutale would not have me seeing double at every pebble run over, and as much as I've been fancying a change, such thoughts went out of the window when I stopped at the top of Thixendale (a little off the beaten track) with a meaty S1W induced smile on my face, and took this pic  I couldn't help but feel I am so lucky to own the best looking Buell on the planet. Suddenly all in the world felt good, and I thought of Matt Ware, and I smiled for him because he'd held the same thoughts I was holding right there and then. That's what biking does to you. Today was a most wonderful day to be alive, and be out on a fire breathing Buell. Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on April 15, 2007) | ||
| Sshbsn |
Nevrenuf-- I didn't know the M2 had enough practical space to carry a passenger. I had imagined it more like a new Lightning, you know, a girlfriend would ride but not a wife (witticism from Cycle World). Thanks for the tip on the 02M2. I need to wait until the Harley sells before I pursue anything, I'm just conservative about things like that. I'm in pretty good shape. What would it be like to ride an S1 from California to Florida? Anybody here done long distances on one? It would at least be a trip to remember... | ||
| M2nc |
you know, a girlfriend would ride but not a wife (witticism from Cycle World). Ha, Those are the nicknames of the M2 and the Uly. The Uly is the Wife and the M2 is the Girl friend. I couldn't help but feel I am so lucky to own the best looking Buell on the planet. It is a great feeling, isn't it. (except m2nc's little adventure two weeks ago) That was all operator. The bike would have made that turn, but the operator was not paying enough attention to where it was going. | ||
| Sanchez |
> I just want to head out into the countryside for 8-10 hours each Saturday You really don't want to spend 8 hours on an S1.  The S1 looks better than any other tuber, but that seat is super narrow. I call mine "the thong." It is exactly one butt cheek wide, and that's unfortunate given that I have two butt cheeks. | ||
| S2pengy |
I some of the orginal magazine tests of the S1 they called the seat a suppository.... | ||
| Ulywife |
you know, a girlfriend would ride but not a wife This wife rode 2 up on the M2 for a BRAG Adventure in LaVale MD. We were out for about 8 hours. I do prefer the Uly over the M2 for all day, but it's not a bad ride with the Corbin seat and the Ventura Rack on the back. Ulywife (M2nc's real wife!!) | ||
| Oldog |
I call mine "the thong." So Did Ferris........ the X1 has a better seat especialy the factory custom, } | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
Don't sleep on the M2 for being a corner carver .. the S1 is not a whole lot different in seating position (stock we are talking - the only real difference is the pegs are slightly higher and back compared to the M2, and stock S1 bars are wider) Prior to getting my S1 I rode my M2 everywhere, and I rode it just as aggressive as I do the S1 now .. and I kept up with XB'ers on my M2 .. Having both an M2 and S1 ... the M2 would be the bike I kept if I were to only have one. Comfort, 2 up capability, the best usable power for street IMO (read - torque monster) and a very sorted out machine .. only 2 things would need to be done to the M2 to make it just right - inverted forks and different seat - Corbin works very well... (Both of which I did) Don't get me wrong - I do like my S1 .. but the M2 just offers more ... I did however turn my S1 into a pretzel maker - true clip-ons, and rearsets .. so it will now be the bike I ride when doing those 'fun runs' or track days ... but I wouldn't hesitate to jump on the M2 for those rides if the S1 were down ...  (The S1 has wrapped headers, and rearsets now) | ||
| Nevrenuf |
yes m2nc, this operator had a momentary brain fart also up there coming up on a curve and i hit the brake to hard and she did the slap into the tank bit but i recovered in mid slap and kept on going with nearly a stroke lost. i got lucky cause had i not recovered i would have run into one of those stone walls at a lookout. that's what i like about the m2, i have never been on a bike that is more forgiving when you make a mistake than those. heading back to two that day i was going around a switchback and the tire started to slide and the only thing i did was let up for one second and then gunned it again to get back on course. there has been other times that i was by myself and the biked would right itself almost like it was doing it on it's own. btw, you are one of the determining factors as to why i would seriously consider getting a uly. seeing what i saw and how the bike turned out afterwards. i hope you are feeling better though and whats the word on the uly as far as getting it fixed up. |
